Naturalising players (1 Viewer)

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#1
The French Republic is known for its humane stance on immigration. Their laws are based on the Gemeinschaft principle; everyone may apply for a French passport and when it is granted to you, you are 100% French.

The German Federation has its laws based on the Gesellschaft principle; unless both of your parents are German born, you're never 100% German.

The Dutch and the Italians are somewhere in between; they demand your family has been in possession of the nationality in question for a certain period of time before you are 100% Dutch or Italian by law.

These differences in opinion and law led to some nations easily naturalising 'foreign' players into their national squads where some other nations refrained from it. Where do you stand on the matter?
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,859
#2
I think it's easy enough to lament that naturalization and integration is unfair on the premise that the rules are different in the various countries but it's an issue much deeper than that. Essentially, it's about immigration policy in general and if you want to argue that the French team has an unfair advantage with its naturalized players, then also consider the social and political consequences for the nation as a whole.

All I'm saying...
 
Aug 1, 2003
17,678
#3
I think Italy's and Holland's are bests... Because you don't have too much outsiders but you still do have some and you can get credit from them and yet also hold on to those pure bloods of your country, living the term 'national team' :undecide:
 

mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,575
#4
Ireland just passed a referendum giving the government the power to legislate over the right to citizenship in the case where neither parent is an Irish citizen. :( I don't welcome that at all - citizenship rights should be enshrined in our constitution, IMO.

As for the question above, I think it's a big, complex issue. What is a citizen? Why does someone with longer roots in the country have more rights than someone else who has also lived there all of his or her life? If citizenship just a big, racist club, for people of pure (Aryan, anyone?) blood?
 

Dan

Back & Quack
Mar 9, 2004
9,291
#5
About half of the irish and scottish team are there cos they have irish/scottish grandparents.
 

mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,575
#6
++ [ originally posted by blackmint ] ++
About half of the irish and scottish team are there cos they have irish/scottish grandparents.
The Irish team is mostly Irish-born now, though Scotland seem to be going the other way - they're desperate for talent.
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,859
#10
With all due respect, that makes you sound very ignorant about the issues of history and culture. Just because France has a more lenient immigration policy they are now "buying" success? Gimme a break.

I suppose every gold medal the US has won in the Olympics has been invalid as well, considering all the African and European blood they have in their veins. :rolleyes:
 

delpiero10

Senior Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,158
#11
++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++
With all due respect, that makes you sound very ignorant about the issues of history and culture. Just because France has a more lenient immigration policy they are now "buying" success? Gimme a break.

I suppose every gold medal the US has won in the Olympics has been invalid as well, considering all the African and European blood they have in their veins. :rolleyes:
You are putting a lot of words in my mouth now!, i only said France=Africa and you cant deny it.
 

mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,575
#14
++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++
With all due respect, that makes you sound very ignorant about the issues of history and culture. Just because France has a more lenient immigration policy they are now "buying" success? Gimme a break.

I suppose every gold medal the US has won in the Olympics has been invalid as well, considering all the African and European blood they have in their veins. :rolleyes:
:D The US chess team is basically the Russian Refugee team.

The French have reaped the benefits of their immigration laws, not abused them, or bent them to gain success.

Ditto the Dutch. Kluivert, Davids and Seadorf aren't exactly clones of Erik, are they?
 

*aca*

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2002
869
#15
++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++

:D The US chess team is basically the Russian Refugee team.
You should see maltese basketball team :D

In Malta, goverment can grant citinzenship to a foreigner with no relation to malta, if state of Malta will benefit from it. ;)
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,859
#16
++ [ originally posted by delpiero10 ] ++
It simply means that the whole France first team except Barthez, Trez and Pires isnt from French origin. Thats the Fact.
Yeah that's true. Can't say it matters to me though.

Actually Trez' father is Argentine, so you could argue he's not 100% native French. And Pires was born to a Portugues father and a Spanish mother if I remember correctly. And Lizarazu/Deschamps are Basque. So there is a lot of different combinations there. As to your previous question, I really like it being this way. To me it tells a very positive story about immigrants going on to do great things, alongside the natives. :cool:

Aren't these players native French btw?
Landreau, Coupet, Sagnol, Rothen, Pedretti.
 

delpiero10

Senior Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,158
#17
++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++


Aren't these players native French btw?
Landreau, Coupet, Sagnol, Rothen, Pedretti.
yupp, it would be really strange/bad if you couldnt find any french origin players!, but those isnt on the starting 11.
 
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Slagathor

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#20
Hold on there John! Holland didn't naturalise any player like Italy did with, for example, Camoranesi!

Kluivert, Davids and Seedorf (and others) were born in the 'colonies'. Because of the gruesome things the Dutch have caused in the colonies in the past it was decided in the second half of the 20th century that everyone who was born the "Kingdom of the Netherlands" was a Dutch citizen. That makes Kluivert, Davids and Seedorf just as Dutch as I am!!
 

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