My Italy (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
Someone will have to tell me how to quote different bits from different messages because I still don't know how to do that
Anyway, I find you a bit harsh on Italy. For a team "without balls", I'd say it did quite alright by playing 5 WC and 2 Euro finals, winning 3 and 1 respectively, with two of those finals reached in the last decade. If I stand correct, only France has a better recent record than us in Europe, and nations like Spain or England go further than us in major tournaments only once every twenty years or so.
And despite what Denco says, I believe it also takes some courage to face 11 dutchmen in an all-orange Rotterdam Kuip in a Euro semi and with one man expelled after 30 minutes.
True, the Italian Federation often picks coaches that can be labelled "defensive" in principle. But the most recent experience with an "offensive" coach was a mixed blessing : Sacchi's Italy hardly played Total Football, and had it not been for the Divine Ponytail in 94 we would have packed our luggage after the game with Nigeria already. On the other hand, Enzo Bearzot, who was an alleged heir of Valcareggi's catenaccio, brought us the Cup home in a tournament that saw us beat the favourites Brazil 3-2, Argentina 2-1 and West Germany 3-1 in the final, after some fine attacking displays. And that same Bearzot's Italy was already considered by many pundits as the most entertaining team of WC 78
I have always maintained that a coach's share in a team's success amounts to 10 % at best. To me, it's the players who are on the pitch that make the difference. This is all the more true with the national team : Trap sees his players only 5 or 6 times a year and for not more than 2 or 3 days, not a long period enough for him to instill his "defensive spirit" into them in my opinion (it's funny to call defensive a man that used to play Boniek, Platini and Rossi all together) His main role is to create a good tactical balance on the pitch and make sure that the team's cohesion is strong in the crucial moments of a tournament : Trap can do that fairly well I believe. Is he a eunuch though? Perhaps, but he must be a very special sort of eunuch since no trainer in the world has won as much as he has at club level..
In my opinion, what people label "cowardice" or "defensive spirit" is in reality lucidity and vision. If all it took to be successful was put ten men in front of the goallie and wait for a counter attack, then why don't other teams also play like that? And don't tell me it's because they care about spectacle : no professional team on this earth will put entertainment before victory. Everybody wants to win and is ready to pay a very high price for it.
As for Cosmi sitting on the squadra bench, I am afraid it is highly unlikely. I like Cosmi, I really do, but he looks like the new Mazzone to me, i.e. a colourful character who specialized in rescuing small teams from relegation but who never really made it with a big team, let alone the National Team. As I've said in another thread, I would personally fancy Mancini, as I think his young age would mark a change with his relatively old predecessors Trap, Zoff and C. Maldini. But rumour has it he's heading for Inter now, so God knows who will replace Trap (btw I don't think it was a wise decision on his behalf to announce that he'll quit after Euro 2000 so much time in advance).
Anyway, since the original topic of this thread deals with the players that should go to Portugal, here's my own list of 23
Goallies : Buffon, Toldo, Pelizzoli
Defenders : Oddo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Birindelli, Ferrari, Legrottaglie, Coco
Defensive mids : Gattuso, Pirlo, Perrotta, C. Zanetti
Offensive mids : Camoranesi, Totti, Del Piero, Marchionni, Cassano, Di Vaio
Strikers : Vieri, Inzaghi
The formation would be 4-2-3-1. I picked Di Vaio over Miccoli because he can both replace DP on the left and play as a striker if needed.
Anyway, I find you a bit harsh on Italy. For a team "without balls", I'd say it did quite alright by playing 5 WC and 2 Euro finals, winning 3 and 1 respectively, with two of those finals reached in the last decade. If I stand correct, only France has a better recent record than us in Europe, and nations like Spain or England go further than us in major tournaments only once every twenty years or so.
And despite what Denco says, I believe it also takes some courage to face 11 dutchmen in an all-orange Rotterdam Kuip in a Euro semi and with one man expelled after 30 minutes.
True, the Italian Federation often picks coaches that can be labelled "defensive" in principle. But the most recent experience with an "offensive" coach was a mixed blessing : Sacchi's Italy hardly played Total Football, and had it not been for the Divine Ponytail in 94 we would have packed our luggage after the game with Nigeria already. On the other hand, Enzo Bearzot, who was an alleged heir of Valcareggi's catenaccio, brought us the Cup home in a tournament that saw us beat the favourites Brazil 3-2, Argentina 2-1 and West Germany 3-1 in the final, after some fine attacking displays. And that same Bearzot's Italy was already considered by many pundits as the most entertaining team of WC 78
I have always maintained that a coach's share in a team's success amounts to 10 % at best. To me, it's the players who are on the pitch that make the difference. This is all the more true with the national team : Trap sees his players only 5 or 6 times a year and for not more than 2 or 3 days, not a long period enough for him to instill his "defensive spirit" into them in my opinion (it's funny to call defensive a man that used to play Boniek, Platini and Rossi all together) His main role is to create a good tactical balance on the pitch and make sure that the team's cohesion is strong in the crucial moments of a tournament : Trap can do that fairly well I believe. Is he a eunuch though? Perhaps, but he must be a very special sort of eunuch since no trainer in the world has won as much as he has at club level..
In my opinion, what people label "cowardice" or "defensive spirit" is in reality lucidity and vision. If all it took to be successful was put ten men in front of the goallie and wait for a counter attack, then why don't other teams also play like that? And don't tell me it's because they care about spectacle : no professional team on this earth will put entertainment before victory. Everybody wants to win and is ready to pay a very high price for it.
As for Cosmi sitting on the squadra bench, I am afraid it is highly unlikely. I like Cosmi, I really do, but he looks like the new Mazzone to me, i.e. a colourful character who specialized in rescuing small teams from relegation but who never really made it with a big team, let alone the National Team. As I've said in another thread, I would personally fancy Mancini, as I think his young age would mark a change with his relatively old predecessors Trap, Zoff and C. Maldini. But rumour has it he's heading for Inter now, so God knows who will replace Trap (btw I don't think it was a wise decision on his behalf to announce that he'll quit after Euro 2000 so much time in advance).
Anyway, since the original topic of this thread deals with the players that should go to Portugal, here's my own list of 23
Goallies : Buffon, Toldo, Pelizzoli
Defenders : Oddo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Birindelli, Ferrari, Legrottaglie, Coco
Defensive mids : Gattuso, Pirlo, Perrotta, C. Zanetti
Offensive mids : Camoranesi, Totti, Del Piero, Marchionni, Cassano, Di Vaio
Strikers : Vieri, Inzaghi
The formation would be 4-2-3-1. I picked Di Vaio over Miccoli because he can both replace DP on the left and play as a striker if needed.
Yes, that was in 1993-94 : our only two pure strikers were Massaro and Simone that year (oh, and Papin lol), but we could rely on a bunker defence that included the likes of Baresi, Panucci, Tassotti, Dessailly, Costacurta and Maldini.
On the other hand, Capello won the League with us the two seasons before by demolishing Fiorentina 7-3 in Florence, Zeman's Foggia 8-2 in Foggia, Pescara 5-4 in Pescara and Napoli 5-1 at the San Paolo among other teams. And 1994 was the year when we atomized Barcelona 4-0 in the CL final.
Once again, the reputation of a coach can be easily undone...
On the other hand, Capello won the League with us the two seasons before by demolishing Fiorentina 7-3 in Florence, Zeman's Foggia 8-2 in Foggia, Pescara 5-4 in Pescara and Napoli 5-1 at the San Paolo among other teams. And 1994 was the year when we atomized Barcelona 4-0 in the CL final.
Once again, the reputation of a coach can be easily undone...
With the greatest respect I thought I did answer your question. You said the problem with Italy is that the coaches do not have the balls to make use of their offensive players and play the formation you deem worthy to win any major championship ie playing the likes of Cassano, Dp, Totti and Inzaghi in the same line up and I am telling you that you cannot change a nation and the way they think
Italy are a notoriously cautious country, its not just the coaches its the players as well, they do just enought to win and that is it so no matter how many attacking players you have on the pitch, they would still revert to defensive counter attacking mode once the going gets tough ie semi final or final
Now another country which is attacking by nature might get away with that but I do not see Italy doing that as its not just in their nature to do it and I don't think its just down to the coach
What happens to your team when they are being attacked and also your team seems to be high on technique but low on strength, athlecticism and speed
Would Gatusso be able to stop counter attacks by himself as he surely would not get any help from Cassano, Dp, Totti and Pirlo?
As for your quiz my Pc has been having problems since december or November even and the only time I have access to a pc is between 10am and 1pm every weekday at the college I am currently doing a course at
Italy are a notoriously cautious country, its not just the coaches its the players as well, they do just enought to win and that is it so no matter how many attacking players you have on the pitch, they would still revert to defensive counter attacking mode once the going gets tough ie semi final or final
Now another country which is attacking by nature might get away with that but I do not see Italy doing that as its not just in their nature to do it and I don't think its just down to the coach
What happens to your team when they are being attacked and also your team seems to be high on technique but low on strength, athlecticism and speed
Would Gatusso be able to stop counter attacks by himself as he surely would not get any help from Cassano, Dp, Totti and Pirlo?
As for your quiz my Pc has been having problems since december or November even and the only time I have access to a pc is between 10am and 1pm every weekday at the college I am currently doing a course at
++ [ originally posted by JuveCampione ] ++
I admit I'm not completely objective, but dude, who is Gattusso??!!!?? he's not a football player.
Tacchi is the best defensive midfielder
another thing, Gattusso never played good in the national team
I admit I'm not completely objective, but dude, who is Gattusso??!!!?? he's not a football player.
Tacchi is the best defensive midfielder
another thing, Gattusso never played good in the national team
They are not the same type of player...some matches you need a Gattuso some types you need a Tacchinardi however saying he is the best defensive midfielder for Italy by just throwing others down is not telling me anything.
Never played good in the National? First off I would disagree..the minutes he played and what he has done are evidence discrediting your statement more over, he has hardly played for the National on a consistent basis. Anyhow its irrelevant because you don't compare these two types regardless if they are both mid fielders.
-------------------Buffon-------------------------------
Oddo------Canna-----------Nesta-------------Zamby
--------------------Zanetti---------Perrotta------------------------------
------------Fiore-----------Totti-------------------DP
------------------------Vieri---------------------------------
I would have Tacchi and maybe Gattuso as subs for Zanetti and Perrotta
Pippo would be on the bench with Montella (if he's healthy) as forwards
Camoranesi would be a longshot to make the team- too inconsistent
Cassano would be there if we want the team to self-destruct and lose the tournament
Oddo------Canna-----------Nesta-------------Zamby
--------------------Zanetti---------Perrotta------------------------------
------------Fiore-----------Totti-------------------DP
------------------------Vieri---------------------------------
I would have Tacchi and maybe Gattuso as subs for Zanetti and Perrotta
Pippo would be on the bench with Montella (if he's healthy) as forwards
Camoranesi would be a longshot to make the team- too inconsistent
Cassano would be there if we want the team to self-destruct and lose the tournament