My Italy (2 Viewers)

IncuboRossonero

Inferiority complex
Nov 16, 2003
7,039
++ [ originally posted by fred weasley ] ++
no its ok this is a forum where everyone is entitled his opinion,but i cant deny that i am shocked to find someone saying that tacchi is the best defensive midfielder in Italy.:dazed:
Your right but an opinion and showing us why is one thing...saying X is better than Y because Y is crap...well that about sums it up.
 

The Pado

Filthy Gobbo
Jul 12, 2002
9,939
Speaking of Tommasi, what is his problem? Injury? Loss of form? Did he forget how to play football?

Two years ago he was the best at his position, but since then he has shown absolutely nothing. Don't expect Tommasi to make the trip to Portugal, but Albertini has made a case for himself.
 
Dec 27, 2003
1,982
++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++

Time after time we see italian national sides that on paper are equal to or better than every other team, yet they fail to perform... Why?

I'll tell you... No Balls... Its as simple as that
All your managers are scared to use your strongpoints, they all want that 1-0 win

Time after time you show you have a great back line and probably the best attacking line in world football, but no one has the balls to use it

Jus look at trap... fvck me... The Eunach of all Eunachs

You wanna win the world cup?
again Ill tell you how... 2 words...

Serse Cosmi

Its a bit of a rant and prob doesnt make sense , but there you go!
Someone will have to tell me how to quote different bits from different messages because I still don't know how to do that:confused:

Anyway, I find you a bit harsh on Italy. For a team "without balls", I'd say it did quite alright by playing 5 WC and 2 Euro finals, winning 3 and 1 respectively, with two of those finals reached in the last decade. If I stand correct, only France has a better recent record than us in Europe, and nations like Spain or England go further than us in major tournaments only once every twenty years or so.

And despite what Denco says, I believe it also takes some courage to face 11 dutchmen in an all-orange Rotterdam Kuip in a Euro semi and with one man expelled after 30 minutes.

True, the Italian Federation often picks coaches that can be labelled "defensive" in principle. But the most recent experience with an "offensive" coach was a mixed blessing : Sacchi's Italy hardly played Total Football, and had it not been for the Divine Ponytail in 94 we would have packed our luggage after the game with Nigeria already. On the other hand, Enzo Bearzot, who was an alleged heir of Valcareggi's catenaccio, brought us the Cup home in a tournament that saw us beat the favourites Brazil 3-2, Argentina 2-1 and West Germany 3-1 in the final, after some fine attacking displays. And that same Bearzot's Italy was already considered by many pundits as the most entertaining team of WC 78

I have always maintained that a coach's share in a team's success amounts to 10 % at best. To me, it's the players who are on the pitch that make the difference. This is all the more true with the national team : Trap sees his players only 5 or 6 times a year and for not more than 2 or 3 days, not a long period enough for him to instill his "defensive spirit" into them in my opinion (it's funny to call defensive a man that used to play Boniek, Platini and Rossi all together) His main role is to create a good tactical balance on the pitch and make sure that the team's cohesion is strong in the crucial moments of a tournament : Trap can do that fairly well I believe. Is he a eunuch though? Perhaps, but he must be a very special sort of eunuch since no trainer in the world has won as much as he has at club level..

In my opinion, what people label "cowardice" or "defensive spirit" is in reality lucidity and vision. If all it took to be successful was put ten men in front of the goallie and wait for a counter attack, then why don't other teams also play like that? And don't tell me it's because they care about spectacle : no professional team on this earth will put entertainment before victory. Everybody wants to win and is ready to pay a very high price for it.

As for Cosmi sitting on the squadra bench, I am afraid it is highly unlikely. I like Cosmi, I really do, but he looks like the new Mazzone to me, i.e. a colourful character who specialized in rescuing small teams from relegation but who never really made it with a big team, let alone the National Team. As I've said in another thread, I would personally fancy Mancini, as I think his young age would mark a change with his relatively old predecessors Trap, Zoff and C. Maldini. But rumour has it he's heading for Inter now, so God knows who will replace Trap (btw I don't think it was a wise decision on his behalf to announce that he'll quit after Euro 2000 so much time in advance).

Anyway, since the original topic of this thread deals with the players that should go to Portugal, here's my own list of 23

Goallies : Buffon, Toldo, Pelizzoli

Defenders : Oddo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Birindelli, Ferrari, Legrottaglie, Coco

Defensive mids : Gattuso, Pirlo, Perrotta, C. Zanetti

Offensive mids : Camoranesi, Totti, Del Piero, Marchionni, Cassano, Di Vaio

Strikers : Vieri, Inzaghi

The formation would be 4-2-3-1. I picked Di Vaio over Miccoli because he can both replace DP on the left and play as a striker if needed.
 
Dec 27, 2003
1,982
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

Look at Capello , he won the league with Roma by playing 3 strikers playing gr8 football and what does he do the next season, he reverts to 4-4-2 the next season and they became more dour
Same when he was at Milan, I mean there was a time he won the league by scoring 38 goals in 34 matches
Yes, that was in 1993-94 : our only two pure strikers were Massaro and Simone that year (oh, and Papin lol), but we could rely on a bunker defence that included the likes of Baresi, Panucci, Tassotti, Dessailly, Costacurta and Maldini.

On the other hand, Capello won the League with us the two seasons before by demolishing Fiorentina 7-3 in Florence, Zeman's Foggia 8-2 in Foggia, Pescara 5-4 in Pescara and Napoli 5-1 at the San Paolo among other teams. And 1994 was the year when we atomized Barcelona 4-0 in the CL final.

Once again, the reputation of a coach can be easily undone...
 

Stu

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
17,557
Either

Buffon - Oddo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Zambrotta - Gattuso/Tacchinardi, Pirlo/Maresca - Camoranesi, Totti, Del Piero - Vieri

or

Buffon - Oddo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Zambrotta - Camoranesi, Gattuso, Maresca - Totti - Del Piero, Vieri
 

JuveCampione

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2002
4,134
++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++


Your right but an opinion and showing us why is one thing...saying X is better than Y because Y is crap...well that about sums it up.
I'm not saying that's the reason Tacchi is better.
He is a fantastic player and it doesn't matter about the others.
 

IncuboRossonero

Inferiority complex
Nov 16, 2003
7,039
++ [ originally posted by Fliakis ] ++
ok, tacchinardi is not the best. hmmm... why is zanetti better though? :undecide:
Tacchinardi would have been better off with Milan. He never reached his full potential as a player and is certainly not the best. Little evidence showing me otherwise. I never said Zanetti was better...There are more players than just Zebras and Merdas out there.
 

Layce Erayce

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2002
9,116
tacchi would have been better under ancelotti. both played in similar positions, tacchi did remarkably well under his reign and ancelotti showed him favour too.

so inbunco's right.
 

JuveCampione

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2002
4,134
++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++


Fanastic? and thats all that matters huh. Are you trying to show me the definition of being "bias" is???
I admit I'm not completely objective, but dude, who is Gattusso??!!!?? he's not a football player.
Tacchi is the best defensive midfielder :stuckup:

another thing, Gattusso never played good in the national team
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,112
++ [ originally posted by JuveCampione ] ++


I admit I'm not completely objective, but dude, who is Gattusso??!!!?? he's not a football player.
Tacchi is the best defensive midfielder :stuckup:

another thing, Gattusso never played good in the national team
and Tacchi rarely plays for the Azurri:dontcare:
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


Dennis,

For all the respect I have of you as a poster, it allways amazes me how you manage to wander off on some irrelevant tangent, trying to bully people with this so called expertise of yours without ever really answering the peice you quote.

427 words of blather without ever really touching on a point, merely irrelevant ramblings of skirt.

As for your years of experience... Sorry didnt realise no one else knows anything about football or has followed the italian game for so long... I bow to your superior knowledge.... You must be correct.


ps. Are you not entering my quiz dennis??
With the greatest respect I thought I did answer your question. You said the problem with Italy is that the coaches do not have the balls to make use of their offensive players and play the formation you deem worthy to win any major championship ie playing the likes of Cassano, Dp, Totti and Inzaghi in the same line up and I am telling you that you cannot change a nation and the way they think
Italy are a notoriously cautious country, its not just the coaches its the players as well, they do just enought to win and that is it so no matter how many attacking players you have on the pitch, they would still revert to defensive counter attacking mode once the going gets tough ie semi final or final
Now another country which is attacking by nature might get away with that but I do not see Italy doing that as its not just in their nature to do it and I don't think its just down to the coach

What happens to your team when they are being attacked and also your team seems to be high on technique but low on strength, athlecticism and speed

Would Gatusso be able to stop counter attacks by himself as he surely would not get any help from Cassano, Dp, Totti and Pirlo?

As for your quiz my Pc has been having problems since december or November even and the only time I have access to a pc is between 10am and 1pm every weekday at the college I am currently doing a course at
 

IncuboRossonero

Inferiority complex
Nov 16, 2003
7,039
++ [ originally posted by JuveCampione ] ++


I admit I'm not completely objective, but dude, who is Gattusso??!!!?? he's not a football player.
Tacchi is the best defensive midfielder :stuckup:

another thing, Gattusso never played good in the national team
Received a nomination for ballon d'or..received a vote for FIFA Player of the Year...Adored by Moggi, Alex Ferguson and Boca Juniors. Man of the Match in the CL Final...wow you have pretty high standards for a footballer.

They are not the same type of player...some matches you need a Gattuso some types you need a Tacchinardi however saying he is the best defensive midfielder for Italy by just throwing others down is not telling me anything.
Never played good in the National? First off I would disagree..the minutes he played and what he has done are evidence discrediting your statement more over, he has hardly played for the National on a consistent basis. Anyhow its irrelevant because you don't compare these two types regardless if they are both mid fielders.
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,482
-------------------Buffon-------------------------------

Oddo------Canna-----------Nesta-------------Zamby


--------------------Zanetti---------Perrotta------------------------------


------------Fiore-----------Totti-------------------DP


------------------------Vieri---------------------------------



I would have Tacchi and maybe Gattuso as subs for Zanetti and Perrotta

Pippo would be on the bench with Montella (if he's healthy) as forwards

Camoranesi would be a longshot to make the team- too inconsistent

Cassano would be there if we want the team to self-destruct and lose the tournament
 

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