Muslim players in Europe (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Zé Tahir
- Start date
Honestly the reason I didn't intervene in the first place is that I'm just sick and tired of these petty fights. But now that I'm involved afterall, let's do this right.
That's not a question, it's not a definite assertion but it's not far from it. You make a statement about a religion you don't know much about in the form that if it were read by a neutral, they may believe it. You are spreading false truths. Had it indeed been a question, those without an opinion would be less likely to believe it because then you would be admitting you're no authority on the subject.
Now tell me, Vinny, how much misleading nonsense has been spread about Islam the past few decades? How many bs misconceptions do we in the "Western" world, who know nothing about it, have? Is it really that shocking that those who have this religion want to keep the record straight? I imagine they wish to educate people on Islam so we don't believe all kinds of crap said by other people whose opinions we respect, those who also don't know anything, like our friends or relatives or the media. And with your statement, you're not helping.
To top it off, you compare muslims to a radical fundamentalist who kills people for power. Brilliant.
Along comes Majed who wants to help and he offers his insights..
Then it's zambrota19...
So already you have 2 replies to your assertive post and notice how both these people were able to see past what could easily be interpreted as purposeful misrepresentation on your part and gave you an answer to your "question".
But not all people are equally understanding, right?
Yes it was blunt, but it's true, isn't? Aren't you ignorant on Islam? I know I am and if I were all that interested in learning I would but I don't because I'm lazy. So iBianconeri clearly wasn't as kind as the two other posters but what he said was true and "ignorant" is hardly a rare label on this forum, I wouldn't even call it an insult. He also took a jab at you in the form of his sarcastic remark at the end, also not a rare thing on this forum.
"asshole", that's more like it. That's definitely an insult. So let's replay your history here.
1. You make an ignorant but assertive post which provokes 3 responses.
2. 2 of them are friendly, one is slightly antagonistic.
3. You ignore the 2 friendly ones and you launch a personal attack on iBianconeri.
First of all, you can call me ignorant all you want, it doesn't bother me. And secondly for my own selfish benefit of saving face or dignity or whatever you may wish to call it, I try not to take opposing sides in discussions if I know I don't have a clue. And if I do, I stay humble and admit my ignorance, which prevents people from attacking me. Believe me, had you said what you did with "I read this and I wonder if it's true" and dropped the Bin Laden reference, noone would call you ignorant. Even though you are. Because by staying humble you express your respect to those who know the subject a little better and in being respected, people tend to respond with kindness and understanding.
But this isn't really about me. You are a timebomb and you know it. Sometimes even to me, and I know you for some time now, it looks like you're only waiting to pick a fight with someone. You're opinionated and you like to express yourself in a loud and confident manner. Who could forget the posts in all caps. That is your style, you like to be an authority so that when Vinny walks in, everyone knows you have something radical to say. Not everyone likes this kind of personality, some people feel dominated by it, like you're imposing yourself on everyone else. Is it any wonder you don't get along perfectly with everyone? Staying on good terms with everyone is not friendship or kindness, it's diplomacy. And while the former qualities are not lost, they take a back seat in the process. One thing you are not is diplomatic.
That's not a question, it's not a definite assertion but it's not far from it. You make a statement about a religion you don't know much about in the form that if it were read by a neutral, they may believe it. You are spreading false truths. Had it indeed been a question, those without an opinion would be less likely to believe it because then you would be admitting you're no authority on the subject.
Now tell me, Vinny, how much misleading nonsense has been spread about Islam the past few decades? How many bs misconceptions do we in the "Western" world, who know nothing about it, have? Is it really that shocking that those who have this religion want to keep the record straight? I imagine they wish to educate people on Islam so we don't believe all kinds of crap said by other people whose opinions we respect, those who also don't know anything, like our friends or relatives or the media. And with your statement, you're not helping.
To top it off, you compare muslims to a radical fundamentalist who kills people for power. Brilliant.
Along comes Majed who wants to help and he offers his insights..
++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
That type of "Islam" that Taliban and extremists practice and preach detroys the true basic princaples of Islam. While they do uphold some very good values of islam, they have oversteped a lot of boundries IMO.
While the Quraan then Hadith are our guides to our way of living, there is room for interpretation for the "little" matters and the scholars do their best to interpret them. the problem is that a lot of politics affect what's said. There's also the cultural factor. Many things that are not part of Islam are associated with it because they were local things.
Therefore, it's not right to listen to anyone who claims what is or isn't the "true Islam."
Now, for what sounds like my paradox:
According to me knowledge, i'll tell you what's said concerning those matters,
For sports, in the time of the prophet Mohammed PBUH, his closest companions encouraged Muslims to teach their kids swimming, archery, and hourse-back riding. The prohet did not disagree with this. IIRC, friendly wrestling was also practiced. It's also a muslim's responsibility to take care of him/herself's health. We are not to "abuse" our bodies for useless reasons. Sports are permited, but of couse, as long as it does not contradict with other teachings like dressing modestly for example.
Music.... hmm.... I'm positive that offesive music with profanity and so forth is not permitted. We're encoureged to speak well always. As for stuff like classical ..etc, I have to say that i'm not knowledgable enough to give a solid answer.
As for western culture, the rule is simple: If an elementof the culture contradicts with muslim teachings that that element is not permitted. Islam has spread all the way to asia and its different people still uphold much of their local traditions. that goes for western culture too.
That type of "Islam" that Taliban and extremists practice and preach detroys the true basic princaples of Islam. While they do uphold some very good values of islam, they have oversteped a lot of boundries IMO.
While the Quraan then Hadith are our guides to our way of living, there is room for interpretation for the "little" matters and the scholars do their best to interpret them. the problem is that a lot of politics affect what's said. There's also the cultural factor. Many things that are not part of Islam are associated with it because they were local things.
Therefore, it's not right to listen to anyone who claims what is or isn't the "true Islam."
Now, for what sounds like my paradox:
According to me knowledge, i'll tell you what's said concerning those matters,
For sports, in the time of the prophet Mohammed PBUH, his closest companions encouraged Muslims to teach their kids swimming, archery, and hourse-back riding. The prohet did not disagree with this. IIRC, friendly wrestling was also practiced. It's also a muslim's responsibility to take care of him/herself's health. We are not to "abuse" our bodies for useless reasons. Sports are permited, but of couse, as long as it does not contradict with other teachings like dressing modestly for example.
Music.... hmm.... I'm positive that offesive music with profanity and so forth is not permitted. We're encoureged to speak well always. As for stuff like classical ..etc, I have to say that i'm not knowledgable enough to give a solid answer.
As for western culture, the rule is simple: If an elementof the culture contradicts with muslim teachings that that element is not permitted. Islam has spread all the way to asia and its different people still uphold much of their local traditions. that goes for western culture too.
So already you have 2 replies to your assertive post and notice how both these people were able to see past what could easily be interpreted as purposeful misrepresentation on your part and gave you an answer to your "question".
But not all people are equally understanding, right?
Yes it was blunt, but it's true, isn't? Aren't you ignorant on Islam? I know I am and if I were all that interested in learning I would but I don't because I'm lazy. So iBianconeri clearly wasn't as kind as the two other posters but what he said was true and "ignorant" is hardly a rare label on this forum, I wouldn't even call it an insult. He also took a jab at you in the form of his sarcastic remark at the end, also not a rare thing on this forum.
"asshole", that's more like it. That's definitely an insult. So let's replay your history here.
1. You make an ignorant but assertive post which provokes 3 responses.
2. 2 of them are friendly, one is slightly antagonistic.
3. You ignore the 2 friendly ones and you launch a personal attack on iBianconeri.
First of all, you can call me ignorant all you want, it doesn't bother me. And secondly for my own selfish benefit of saving face or dignity or whatever you may wish to call it, I try not to take opposing sides in discussions if I know I don't have a clue. And if I do, I stay humble and admit my ignorance, which prevents people from attacking me. Believe me, had you said what you did with "I read this and I wonder if it's true" and dropped the Bin Laden reference, noone would call you ignorant. Even though you are. Because by staying humble you express your respect to those who know the subject a little better and in being respected, people tend to respond with kindness and understanding.
But this isn't really about me. You are a timebomb and you know it. Sometimes even to me, and I know you for some time now, it looks like you're only waiting to pick a fight with someone. You're opinionated and you like to express yourself in a loud and confident manner. Who could forget the posts in all caps. That is your style, you like to be an authority so that when Vinny walks in, everyone knows you have something radical to say. Not everyone likes this kind of personality, some people feel dominated by it, like you're imposing yourself on everyone else. Is it any wonder you don't get along perfectly with everyone? Staying on good terms with everyone is not friendship or kindness, it's diplomacy. And while the former qualities are not lost, they take a back seat in the process. One thing you are not is diplomatic.
