'Murica! (214 Viewers)

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Senior Member
Contributor
Sep 4, 2006
87,955
It's kind of global phenomenon though. Friday morning I was catching up with a fintech prof in Singapore who has sold best-selling Penguin books, etc., who loves teaching.

But she’s been pulled into a lot of hybrid MBA programs where the seemingly brightest students, who respond and ask good questions immediately, and are frequently enrolled from mainland China. Unlike fully remote classes, she does hybrid ones so she does get to see these students in person during the semester. But none of them are like their online personas. Unresponsive. Unable to answer questions. No language issues. She’s 100% convinced they’re all AI frauding their way through the motions.

She’s another example of a great professor who is leaving the profession because it’s no longer rewarding for her. Complete brain drain.

And then of course at mid-tier schools, we have the faculty being forced to perform Blade-Runner-like bot-or-not challenges on their enrolled students who are quite often just fake bots collecting financial aid:
https://hechingerreport.org/as-bot-...od-in-community-colleges-struggle-to-respond/

I mean...

'Ask me anything'> OK, chatgpt. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.
the Chinese students are illiterate too? I thought that was just a Murica problem
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
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Schools are screwed anyway. I wouldn't hire anyone under the age of 24 right now. A large percentage of college graduates today are functionally illiterate.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/art...eating-education-college-students-school.html
What happens after they reach 24? After graduation, if anything, people start reading less and just focus on the career. I don't think that alone makes them literate. If anything, that's when everything goes to shit. Shakespeare used to go under heavy studies as a kid, as he was reading for 6-7 hours in Latin all the classic works, yet he was without a collage degree. It's the system that needs a whole overhaul imo. And I don't think the top level people would want that. I think high individual level will only be reached with persistent and skilled parents -- which is a different problem.
 

swag

L'autista
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Sep 23, 2003
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    swag

the Chinese students are illiterate too? I thought that was just a Murica problem
Slightly surprisingly, yes.

Despite a surveillance society that knows everything, schoolkids in China are drinking the cognitive debt Kool-Aid just like Murican kiddies.

What happens after they reach 24? After graduation, if anything, people start reading less and just focus on the career. I don't think that alone makes them literate. If anything, that's when everything goes to shit. Shakespeare used to go under heavy studies as a kid, as he was reading for 6-7 hours in Latin all the classic works, yet he was without a collage degree. It's the system that needs a whole overhaul imo. And I don't think the top level people would want that. I think high individual level will only be reached with persistent and skilled parents -- which is a different problem.
We're going to find out what happens after they reach 24. A lot of things could happen.

Employers could write them off and just use AI, since so few of these students would offer anything they think they couldn't get with AI services. (I think they will be sold short by employers for a while in the beginning, but it will take them time to figure out that AI isn't a person.) So mass unemployment for a generation like we haven't seen in nearly a century.

Or enough of them could pull the "AI native" card and wow enough employers where they can write their own tickets. But the masses will be left to use their digital addictions and distractions to pay the bills, like the people who performed on "Dum Dummies" on the "Common People" episode of the latest season of Black Mirror. Because if you're talking males under 24, they ain't reading squat. They've been mind-captured by digital escapism via games, televised sports, streams, and podcasts for their lives.

But you're right that the system needs a whole overhaul. The ease of cheating with AI tools reflects how education for our societies is stuck in an Industrial Revolution model where we are supposed to know precise things, which can be specifically validated by spitting them back on tests and exercises. There is no building of curiosity, creative thinking, learning to solve problems where the answers aren't routine and the grading can be easily scaled through computers.

Top-level people would definitely want that. But education systems would need an overhaul like they haven't experienced in over 2-3 centuries for that, and I don't see that happening anytime soon. At best we'll see privileged schools that will try to forge their way to new curriculums rejecting the old orthodoxy. In any case, tons of children are going to be left behind adhering to the highly cheatable but ultimately useless models we have today.
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
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May 27, 2007
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Because if you're talking males under 24, they ain't reading squat.
Funny thing you mention that. But actually nothing changed over the past 60 years or so. Even in the paste it were women that went hard on reading and literature. Males were always a minority. I had no clue but each time when I visited yearly book fairs it's like 90% of women, which I found shocking. But then I ran into some stats how it was always like that and it makes me wonder. It was usually men who were more qualified and who did better in pretty much any field from what I've noticed.
 

swag

L'autista
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Sep 23, 2003
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Funny thing you mention that. But actually nothing changed over the past 60 years or so. Even in the paste it were women that went hard on reading and literature. Males were always a minority. I had no clue but each time when I visited yearly book fairs it's like 90% of women, which I found shocking. But then I ran into some stats how it was always like that and it makes me wonder. It was usually men who were more qualified and who did better in pretty much any field from what I've noticed.
It's wholly different here in Portugal. There are annual book fairs that are massive cultural events, and a lot of niche book events for things like fiction, graphic novels, etc. And it seems 40-50% men here. Go figure.

Just to give you a sample of how much an anomaly this place is, one of the best selling books from the Feria do Livro do Lisboa in 2021 was an updated translation & reprint of Jean-Paul Sartre's Being and Nothingness:
https://visao.pt/visao_verde/alteracoes-climaticas/2021-10-22-o-ser-e-o-nada/
I mean, something like that happening in the U.S. would be as shocking as Donald Trump losing an election to a squirrel. (Or Hunter Biden, your choice.)
 
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Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
89,005
It's wholly different here in Portugal. There are annual book fairs that are massive cultural events, and a lot of niche book events for things like fiction, graphic novels, etc. And it seems 40-50% men here. Go figure.

Just to give you a sample of how much an anomaly this place is, one of the best selling books from the Feria do Livro do Lisboa in 2021 was an updated translation & reprint of Jean-Paul Sartre's Being and Nothingness:
https://visao.pt/visao_verde/alteracoes-climaticas/2021-10-22-o-ser-e-o-nada/
I mean, something like that happening in the U.S. would be as shocking as Donald Trump losing an election to a squirrel. (Or Hunter Biden, your choice.)
Shoking indeed and quite interesting. Thanks for that. I love visiting those fairs and niche book events, especially overlooked graphic novels. By the way, there are some really interesting authors and less known like Migelanxo Prado, Jodorowski, Oesterheld, Matsumoto (Sunny), Taniguchi, Jason Lutes, Blain, etc. Just in case you wanna dig into that. Oh and I assume you read Maus and other masterpieces.

By the way, while we're at that subject, I believe that less financially stable countries read more. The whealthy ones are too busy spending the money and traveling. Also, less financially stable will most likely hit the hard topics, classics and philosophy, while wealthy snobs will read about self motivation, building habits and about happiness from the shittiest authors (that are, surprisingly, best sellers).
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,776
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Shoking indeed and quite interesting. Thanks for that. I love visiting those fairs and niche book events, especially overlooked graphic novels. By the way, there are some really interesting authors and less known like Migelanxo Prado, Jodorowski, Oesterheld, Matsumoto (Sunny), Taniguchi, Jason Lutes, Blain, etc. Just in case you wanna dig into that. Oh and I assume you read Maus and other masterpieces.

By the way, while we're at that subject, I believe that less financially stable countries read more. The whealthy ones are too busy spending the money and traveling. Also, less financially stable will most likely hit the hard topics, classics and philosophy, while wealthy snobs will read about self motivation, building habits and about happiness from the shittiest authors (that are, surprisingly, best sellers).
I am a confessed Jodorowski fan, even if I rarely understand him. :D

And I like your theory. Books are equated with knowledge still and are prized in nations that have less of a culture of mass media distractions. Perhaps life sucks so bad, you need philosophy to keep you from murdering your neighbor. :lol:
 

Siamak

╭∩╮( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)╭∩╮
Aug 13, 2013
18,443
It's wholly different here in Portugal. There are annual book fairs that are massive cultural events, and a lot of niche book events for things like fiction, graphic novels, etc. And it seems 40-50% men here. Go figure.

Just to give you a sample of how much an anomaly this place is, one of the best selling books from the Feria do Livro do Lisboa in 2021 was an updated translation & reprint of Jean-Paul Sartre's Being and Nothingness:
https://visao.pt/visao_verde/alteracoes-climaticas/2021-10-22-o-ser-e-o-nada/
I mean, something like that happening in the U.S. would be as shocking as Donald Trump losing an election to a squirrel. (Or Hunter Biden, your choice.)
Sounds great, I'd love to visit this such amazing place, the environment is usually quiet and I would like to come across some books and take a peek at them.

- - - Updated - - -

See, Seven and I have an understanding.

:heart: Still love you Seven.


Others have malicious intent and can’t knock back, but they can spit all the venom.
Bollywood movies.
 
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Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,339
See, Seven and I have an understanding.

:heart: Still love you Seven.


Others have malicious intent and can’t knock back, but they can spit all the venom.
I don't hate you. I hope you are happy and get everything you need in life. Like I do for almost everyone.

I just wish you'd actually read some of the stuff we are trying to tell you and perhaps make more of an effort to try to understand what we're saying. I don't fault you for not knowing the importance of due process. But when just about any lawyer tells you that what the administration is doing is wrong and flat out dangerous, it's not a big ask to expect you to do something with that information other than respond with a meme.

Frankly, you have a lot of growing to do and for the sake of yourself and others, I hope you do so soon.
 

s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
33,678
US and China to reduce tariffs to 10% for now. Art of the deal strikes again lol
murica so rich

they crashed the stock market and more importantly crushed the trust of investors, created inflation and temporary shortages around the country, pushed china closer to the eu for what, a few billions? the fact that they are lying to the public about who's actually paying the tariffs is not even some novelty

complete insanity
 

Ronn

Senior Member
May 3, 2012
20,889
murica so rich

they crashed the stock market and more importantly crushed the trust of investors, created inflation and temporary shortages around the country, pushed china closer to the eu for what, a few billions? the fact that they are lying to the public about who's actually paying the tariffs is not even some novelty

complete insanity
Breaking: All those beautiful girls are now allowed to have 15 dolls again.
 

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