'Murica! (430 Viewers)

[Hust]

TBH. the only thing out of the ordinary was the character of one of the participants involved -- who happens to thrive on narcissism, accusations of personal grievances, and embracing conspiracy theories. Which was also true four years ago, but somehow that got a pass.

Yes, you had COVID that meant an extraordinary number of people voted by mail and not in person. But that system happens every election ... just the scale was out of proportion this time. The other extraordinary piece was a deliberate campaign to disable the postal system as a means of political advantage.

The character of Trump is irrelevant to the discuss of election issues. If there really was no fraud then Democrats should be all about letting this process continue so they can rub it in Trump/GOPs faces, but they aren't.

 

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[ALC]

Dead people have voted. That is fraud. There is evidence. If you deny that then no point discussing further.

where’s the evidence?

https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-election-dead-voter-claims-fc7ba254fd37059f63ea764c18c2a4cb

 

[Hust]

where’s the evidence?

https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-election-dead-voter-claims-fc7ba254fd37059f63ea764c18c2a4cb

Do you genuinely trust the media? Let's start there.

I will say it again, if D's really aren't worried and claim there is no evidence then let the legal proceedings work their way through the courts. They should have nothing at all to hide. But again, if you're hanging onto what the mainstream media is reporting with all their bias I'm not really sure we are going to get anywhere.

State legislatures are gearing up for recounts/audits or both. Are they in denial of an evidence free election?

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I will trust the courts opinion before I trust the media "lets all come together" now in the heat of a contested election.

 

[il brutto]

Why does it seem like every republican on Tuz is a conspiracy theorist? Like is there something that makes republicans more prone to believing in conspiracy theories? I really don't get it.

 

[Osman]

The character of Trump is irrelevant to the discuss of election issues. If there really was no fraud then Democrats should be all about letting this process continue so they can rub it in Trump/GOPs faces, but they aren't.

NO one is stopping anything about anyones ability to provide proof, why pretend otherwise? If there has been fraud, it needs to be proven and dealt with. But every trustworthy election official is stating it was safe and secure. Human error happens or small time fraud in the 100s/low 1000s in every other election (easy to google, for 2016, 2018 too etc), and its usually switftly dealt with or recounted. Measures seem to get more strict and comprehensive, despite the funky archaic system of every state having their own way of doing this. But there is no real indication of anything major that effects the outcome. If there is, it needs to be proven.

Otherwise this is nothing just but a mental misinformation disease spreading, a collective taking on the low IQ narcissitic personality of the supreme leader, who has NO interest in truth and keeps rehashing every BS that comes to the mind. If there is fraud, it needs to be investigated and proven. Saying it was fraud IS NOT enough.


Honestly I hope you realize how dangerous this whole behaviour is in a democracy, bad precedent. A loser cant handle losing, so he convinces his base to spite the fabrics of reality of the votes, truth and basically seems to be convinving them his interest proceeds the very notion of democracy and maintaining any semblance of a sane functioning society.


I dont care who wins at this point, its just baffling to me anyone intelligent is buying into this desperate deceitful BS.

 

[Hust]

NO one is stopping anything about anyones ability to provide proof, why pretend otherwise? If there has been fraud, it needs to be proven and dealt with. But every trustworthy election official is stating it was safe and secure, human error happens or small time fraud in the 100s/low 1000s in every other election, and its usually switftly dealt with or recounted. Measures seem to get more strict and comprehensive, despite the funky archaic system of every state having their own way of doing this. But there is no real indication of anything major that effects the outcome. If there is, it needs to be proven.

Otherwise this is nothing just but a mental misinformation disease spreading, a collective taking on the low IQ narcissitic personality the supreme leader, who has NO interest in truth and keeps rehashing every BS that comes to the mind. If there is fraud, it needs to be investigated and proven. Saying it was fraud IS NOT enough.


Honestly I hope you realize how dangerous this whole behaviour is in a democracy, bad precedent. A loser cant handle losing, so he convinces his base to spite the fabrics of reality of the votes, truth and basically seems to be convinving them his interest proceeds the very notion of democracy and maintaining any semblance of a sane functioning society.

And it is going through that process right now.

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Why does it seem like every republican on Tuz is a conspiracy theorist? Like is there something that makes republicans more prone to believing in conspiracy theories? I really don't get it.

What does that say about members who think Russia own Trump? No one is calling you anything, or ALC, or Greg, or Aaron.

Why can't people like you and PI or ALC handle a difference in opinion?

 

[Osman]

And it is going through that process right now.

How is it going?

 

[ALC]

Do you genuinely trust the media? Let's start there.

I will say it again, if D's really aren't worried and claim there is no evidence then let the legal proceedings work their way through the courts. They should have nothing at all to hide. But again, if you're hanging onto what the mainstream media is reporting with all their bias I'm not really sure we are going to get anywhere.

State legislatures are gearing up for recounts/audits or both. Are they in denial of an evidence free election?

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I will trust the courts opinion before I trust the media "lets all come together" now in the heat of a contested election.

I wasn’t aware that the department of homeland security was part of the media. But maybe they’re part of the deep state in which case, I guess we just have to live with it.

but yes, let’s see how the lawsuits pan out.

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And it is going through that process right now.

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What does that say about members who think Russia own Trump? No one is calling you anything, or ALC, or Greg, or Aaron.

Why can't people like you and PI or ALC handle a difference in opinion?

I can handle a difference in opinion, it’s just weird that the opinion is based on no evidence

 

[Hust]

How is it going?

lol like it always goes. The country will be fine regardless. We spent the last 4 years being told people like me are deplorable, Trumptards, Nazi, racists, etc...so excuse me if I don't take what the media or libs are saying very seriously anymore than they are taking what I'm saying seriously.

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I can handle a difference in opinion, it’s just weird that the opinion is based on no evidence

Witness testimony under oath is evidence. People are coming forward and going under oath. I mean, what kind of evidence do you need to feel comfortable about calling it evidence?

 

[DAiDEViL]

we do have safe and trustworthy elections.

trump and 4chaners are the only ones saying we don’t

Oh is that so eh?

From watching several elections, it seems the loser Is always complaining about election fraud, never mind which party.

 

[Hust]

Well, we spent 4 years being told Russia cost Hillary the election and Trump is a Putin puppet. I guess everyone has their excuses.

 

[Osman]

lol like it always goes. The country will be fine regardless. We spent the last 4 years being told people like me are deplorable, Trumptards, Nazi, racists, etc...so excuse me if I don't take what the media or libs are saying very seriously anymore than they are taking what I'm saying seriously.

I did not ask that, I ask how is the process going? Because you seem convinced that there was fraud, what do you base that on? Isnt that the whole issue here, claiming the whole election is fraud before there is any proof.

Every other thing is just narrative polarizing divisive BS that are deluding everyone to war mode and hurting all of you. But it seem to gone so far that the basic sanctity of safe election is being treated like toilet paper, just because they felt like it. Really weird whats going on. This is whats worrying me really. One idiotic clown has turned this many people against the basic fabrics of a healthy society.


Is there no trustworthy source you can say is sound in their claim so far of how the election seems to gone as it should, when there is as of yet no proof of otherwise? I mean whats the point of saying everything media/official institutions said are all a lie in this instance, when there is no proof of otherwise? Many of the claims trump makes are easy debunkable, just saying the media is automatically fake news dont make them more right.


It seems like a weird circular argument I keep seeing online, make baseless claims about overhelming fraud (like the dead votes like you just did), asked where is the proof, election officials and security experts verify its been fine, and the rebuttal is allways cant trust the media? Then we are again back to step 1, of still repeating the baseless bullit point conspiracy theories of whole election was stolen. Dont care about the how or it being based on any facts, just saying it seems to be enough to convince people. The notion of sourcing ones statements seems alien concept suddenly.

 

[DAiDEViL]

lol like it always goes. The country will be fine regardless. We spent the last 4 years being told people like me are deplorable, Trumptards, Nazi, racists, etc...so excuse me if I don't take what the media or libs are saying very seriously anymore than they are taking what I'm saying seriously.

Be glad. Thanks to those leftist folks and the media you'll keep the Senate as people were fed up about it.

 

[swag]

Are you referring to observers ejected from ballot counting? Because that's a check & balance that was obviously tilted.

Except there isn't evidence of that. Republican observers were allowed. They just weren't allowed to disrupt things and crawl into everyone's junk. (Partly because they were primed by a psycho president that widespread fraud was being committed for months before there was even any evidence.)

There needs to be a balance between establishing sane rules and observation and not kowtowing to someone whose M.O. is to always spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) on anything and everything to press their agenda. Trump has proven he has no interest working within American democratic institutions - he would rather cast them into doubt and skirt them.

Dead people have voted. That is fraud. There is evidence. If you deny that then no point discussing further.

Dead people are found voting every year. The issue again regards scale. Material scale. It's very very very difficult to forge ballots at scale with dead people. But because of human error and the protections of anonymity, some have gotten through every election. But not at scale.

The character of Trump is irrelevant to the discuss of election issues. If there really was no fraud then Democrats should be all about letting this process continue so they can rub it in Trump/GOPs faces, but they aren't.

No, the character of Trump is central to the discussion. FUD has been Trump's answer to everything: fake news, fake virus, fake elections, fake fake fake. You act like this is the first time he's pulled this excuse. But that's his M.O. And it is no shock because he's followed through on this predictable pattern for years.

You can cry wolf only so many times before people get wise that you're full of it and show no reason to be trusted on all your past fakery cries.

Why does it seem like every republican on Tuz is a conspiracy theorist? Like is there something that makes republicans more prone to believing in conspiracy theories? I really don't get it.

The left has conspiracy theories, absolutely. GMOs, anti-vaxxers, etc. It's there. The difference is that there isn't a president who is basing his information, his tweets, and his messaging to his followers based on that. We don't have anti-GMO conspiracy theorists elected on that platform in Congress. We don't have presidents publicly courting the Flat Earth vote and the 9/11 Was a Hoax vote because it's politically convenient to give lunatics air cover of legitimacy.

 

[Hust]

I did not ask that, I ask how is the process going? Because you seem convinced that there was fraud, what do you base that on? Isnt that the whole issue here, claiming the whole election is fraud before there is any proof.

Every other thing is just narrative polarizing divisive BS that are deluding everyone to war mode and hurting all of you. But it seem to gone so far that the basic sanctity of safe election is being treated like toilet paper, just because they felt like it. Really weird whats going on. This is whats worrying me really.


Is there no trustworthy source you can say is sound in their claim so far of how the election seems to gone as it should, when there is as of yet no proof of otherwise? I mean whats the point of saying everything media/official institutions said are a lie in this instance, when there is no proof of otherwise? It seems like a weird circular argument I keep seeing online, make baseless claims about overhelming fraud (like the dead votes like you just did), asked where is the proof, election officials and security experts verify its been fine, and the rebuttal is allways cant trust the media? Then we are again back to step 1, of still repeating the baseless bullit point conspiracy theories of whole the election was stolen. Dont care about the how or it being based on any facts, just saying it seems to be enough to convince people.

If you think any election in the US is going to be anything but polarizing then I'm not sure you have been paying attention for the last 20 years. As far as the process going, its doing just that...its going. The litigation is being played out as we speak. What more information are you looking to get out of it until things start moving forward?

And no one said the WHOLE election was fraud. Certainly its believable that certain areas were more open to fraud than others and lawyers on the ground are building their cases which will play out in court which answers your question on how's it going...its going. It's not going to happen quickly.

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Except there isn't evidence of that. Republican observers were allowed. They just weren't allowed to disrupt things and crawl into everyone's junk. (Partly because they were primed by a psycho president that widespread fraud was being committed for months before there was even any evidence.)

There needs to be a balance between establishing sane rules and observation and not kowtowing to someone whose M.O. is to always spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) on anything and everything to press their agenda. Trump has proven he has no interest working within American democratic institutions - he would rather cast them into doubt and skirt them.



Dead people are found voting every year. The issue again regards scale. Material scale. It's very very very difficult to forge ballots at scale with dead people. But because of human error and the protections of anonymity, some have gotten through every election. But not at scale.



No, the character of Trump is central to the discussion. FUD has been Trump's answer to everything: fake news, fake virus, fake elections, fake fake fake. You act like this is the first time he's pulled this excuse. But that's his M.O. And it is no shock because he's followed through on this predictable pattern for years.

You can cry wolf only so many times before people get wise that you're full of it and show no reason to be trusted on all your past fakery cries.



The left has conspiracy theories, absolutely. GMOs, anti-vaxxers, etc. It's there. The difference is that there isn't a president who is basing his information, his tweets, and his messaging to his followers based on that. We don't have anti-GMO conspiracy theorists elected on that platform in Congress. We don't have presidents publicly courting the Flat Earth vote and the 9/11 Was a Hoax vote because it's politically convenient to give lunatics air cover of legitimacy.

Then how do you justify Hillary and the Democrats blaming 2016 on Russia? Somehow that gets lost in the sauce now because its GOP calling foul.

 

[il brutto]

What does that say about members who think Russia own Trump?

Who are those members?

It's quite well established that Russia interfered with the 2016 election in a way that benefitted Trump. It may well be that Trump was unaware of what was going on around him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42493918
https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-n...cs-campaigns-5e833a62e9492f6a66624b7920cc846a
https://www.axios.com/trump-associa...ons-206295a1-5abc-4573-be25-4da19d9adcc9.html

Here are some of the full reports (if someone has way too much time on their hands)
https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7039362-Senate-Intelligence-Committee-Russia.html

 

[Hust]

Be glad. Thanks to those leftist folks and the media you'll keep the Senate as people were fed up about it.

I actually am glad. Whatever the outcome of Biden/Trump is largely irrelevant to me. On the bigger scale, cut the majority down in the House and 2022 could be flipped entirely, gained in minority voting, probably going to keep the Senate but IMO the most important is we still control the majority of states and state legislatures which you will see the benefits for the next decade as districts get redrawn from the Census.

The last 4 years gained a SCOTUS majority, nearly overhauls the judiciary and flipped courts so I'm good to go. 4 years will fly by quickly to the next election.

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Who are those members?

It's quite well established that Russia interfered with the 2016 election in a way that benefitted Trump. It may well be that Trump was unaware of what was going on around him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42493918
https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-n...cs-campaigns-5e833a62e9492f6a66624b7920cc846a
https://www.axios.com/trump-associa...ons-206295a1-5abc-4573-be25-4da19d9adcc9.html

Here are some of the full reports (if someone has way too much time on their hands)
https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7039362-Senate-Intelligence-Committee-Russia.html

You guys bring up scale of dead people voting really not enough to tilt the scales, same goes for Russia interfering like they always do. 2016 victory for Trump was not because Russia was the decisive edge that got him over the finish line, it was because Hillary was a terrible candidate.

 

[swag]

Then how do you justify Hillary and the Democrats blaming 2016 on Russia? Somehow that gets lost in the sauce now because its GOP calling foul.

Oh, there was clear Russian manipulation on the election alright. Was it material enough to subvert the public vote? It's been pretty much universal that no, it wasn't. And we did not see Hillary avoiding conceding the election based on that.

But if you're talking about what we saw with with the impeachment proceedings, that was not about the outcome of the 2016 election, for example.

 

[Hust]

Oh, there was clear Russian manipulation on the election alright. Was it material enough to subvert the public vote? It's been pretty much universal that no, it wasn't. And we did not see Hillary avoiding conceding the election based on that.

What we saw with with the impeachment proceedings was not about the outcome of the 2016 election, for example.

Democrats fought for 4 years and refused to admit he was the legitimate president. Don't be surprised now with the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[swag]

Democrats fought for 4 years and refused to admit he was the legitimate president. Don't be surprised now with the shoe is on the other foot.

Some Democrats absolutely did. But that is the game we are playing now. Some Republicans did the same for Obama before him.

The one difference is Trump basically riled up the hysterics against him. Which maybe is good trolling comedy. But it just made everybody uglier about it and brought out more of the stupid on both sides.