'Murica! (126 Viewers)

[Salvo]

In Buffalo?

Where is @Vinman? He was/is a police officer in Buffalo I thought. Looks like he is no longer here.

Gugino

I'm a little confused about it, unless there is something behind the scenes that happened but the officer clearly used too much force unnecessarily. I'm just thinking from the optic of if someone did something inappropriate at work and it was obviously bad practice I wouldn't step down and I don't think many others would even if we liked the dude. I'm sure there is a sense of team and brotherhood but it seems a little odd.

 

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[Salvo]

Per your above question:

"The Emergency Response Team members have not quit the police department, but have stepped down from the tactical unit"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...-protest-of-officers-suspension/#152cd40473e1

Was it stepping down in solidarity or just because they didn't want to do it anymore?

Edit: it says in solidarity, I don't quite understand that.

 

[Hust]

Was it stepping down in solidarity or just because they didn't want to do it anymore?

Edit: it says in solidarity, I don't quite understand that.

I think their (officers) stance is they were clearing the area as they were instructed to do, looks like they claim not much force was used and they believe the man slipped as he stumbled back, or something like that. I actually haven't seen the video, only seen picture of him on his back bleeding. They haven't resigned from the force, but removed themselves from the riot unit they were in working in the force.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

There definitely should be, this is the problem when a large chunk of people in these protests don't actually care about the reason for the protest. Which is sad because the root of the cause is a just one, at least in my opinion.

But the other issue is that when someone like Kap and other NFL players chose to protest peacefully they were completely destroyed in the media. I'm sure many are thinking well what is the right way to protest, it should be the former but the backlash for that was insane.

Can you protest in your job? Also can you wear offensive clothing there? That is not peaceful protest, the right of protest granted to citizens has a form and place.
I'll tell you this if these idiots decide to all kneel at the start of games during the national anthem a lot of people will stop watching, myself included.

 

[Salvo]

I think their (officers) stance is they were clearing the area as they were instructed to do, looks like they claim not much force was used and they believe the man slipped as he stumbled back, or something like that. I actually haven't seen the video, only seen picture of him on his back bleeding. They haven't resigned from the force, but removed themselves from the riot unit they were in working in the force.

In the video I think the force was unnecessary, I think you have to take into account the age Etc of the person when you shove someone like that. That's my opinion. That's like pushing a child like that and saying if they were fully grown they wouldn't have fallen the way they did.

Can you protest in your job? Also can you wear offensive clothing there? That is not peaceful protest, the right of protest granted to citizens has a form and place.
I'll tell you this if these idiots decide to all kneel at the start of games during the national anthem a lot of people will stop watching, myself included.

While I get your point of being able to protest in the workplace the point I was trying to make is that neither are seemingly acceptable. Also sports have become sort of a blurred line politically in America is that a good thing? I don't know, I know with Uefa they have been pretty clear about not allowing any form of political protest. But in the states with athletes being as big as they are there seems to be more leeway? Is that fair to say?

Is the right form of protest for them to do it in their own time? Maybe but I don't think the backlash would be much less. Was the 68 Olympics the right place? I know that it wasn't the same cause but I'm just saying when is the right time or right place to protest? I'm not talking about whether their cause is just or correct or whatever. I think the core of the protest for the death of Floyd and similar deaths is a just one, is the looting and all that shit no, not at all.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

In the video I think the force was unnecessary, I think you have to take into account the age Etc of the person when you shove someone like that. That's my opinion. That's like pushing a child like that and saying if they were fully grown they wouldn't have fallen the way they did. While I get your point of being able to protest in the workplace the point I was trying to make is that neither are seemingly acceptable. Also sports have become sort of a blurred line politically in America is that a good thing? I don't know, I know with Uefa they have been pretty clear about not allowing any form of political protest. But in the states with athletes being as big as they are there seems to be more leeway? Is that fair to say?

Is the right form of protest for them to do it in their own time? Maybe but I don't think the backlash would be much less. Was the 68 Olympics the right place? I know that it wasn't the same cause but I'm just saying when is the right time or right place to protest? I'm not talking about whether their cause is just or correct or whatever. I think the core of the protest for the death of Floyd and similar deaths is a just one, is the looting and all that shit no, not at all.

I own businesses and the moment anyone uses time i pay him for and my premises, he is getting fired i don't care what the cause is. In the case of the US, it's pretty clear "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." You think they would be backlash if they did that? How is he petitioning the govt by offensively kneeling during the anthem and forcing his political views on people who paid to watch sports?

What is the core of the protest that you think is just?

 

[Hust]

I own businesses and the moment anyone uses time i pay him for and my premises, he is getting fired i don't care what the cause is. In the case of the US, it's pretty clear "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." You think they would be backlash if they did that? How is he petitioning the govt by offensively kneeling during the anthem and forcing his political views on people who paid to watch sports?

What is the core of the protest that you think is just?

The right way for an employee to protest is to request time off or leave without pay. The moment they impact the business, profit, customer service etc they are no longer doing what they agreed to get paid to do. My favorite saying in retail when I had to fire/write-up people for for essentially not working on the clock was "this isn't a dairy farm, if you're here to milk it then you're in the wrong place". They never like it, but at the end of the day do your politically charged or personal motives on your own dime and time, not on mine.

 

[Salvo]

I own businesses and the moment anyone uses time i pay him for and my premises, he is getting fired i don't care what the cause is. In the case of the US, it's pretty clear "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." You think they would be backlash if they did that? How is he petitioning the govt by offensively kneeling during the anthem and forcing his political views on people who paid to watch sports?

What is the core of the protest that you think is just?

I think that is fair enough, maybe the protests were better off being in their own time however I do think athletes, especially American ones are a bit of a grey area. Like when LeBron wore the I can't breathe t shirts before a game, I think a lack of uniformity is the issue with what can be done and what can't.

I do believe that the death of George Floyd was completely unavoidable, do I know he was a racist, no I don't, what I saw was a human being with little to no regard for the life of another. I think that is fair to say. Is every black death at the hands of the police due to negligence, racism or prejudice no I don't think so, are there definitely some, probably. If the protest is for the George Floyd's of the world then I think it is a just cause.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I think that is fair enough, maybe the protests were better off being in their own time however I do think athletes, especially American ones are a bit of a grey area. Like when LeBron wore the I can't breathe t shirts before a game, I think a lack of uniformity is the issue with what can be done and what can't.

I do believe that the death of George Floyd was completely unavoidable, do I know he was a racist, no I don't, what I saw was a human being with little to no regard for the life of another. I think that is fair to say. Is every black death at the hands of the police due to negligence, racism or prejudice no I don't think so, are there definitely some, probably. If the protest is for the George Floyd's of the world then I think it is a just cause.

"the automatic celebration of cultural differences or the nonjudgmental view of socially counterproductive behavior cannot be continued if the goal is the wellbeing of actual flesh and blood people, rather than seeking cosmic justice for an intertemporal abstraction one can be humane or inhumane only to living people not to abstractions"

 

[GordoDeCentral]

 

[Hust]

Did you not see the Del Piero jersey?

That's my main takeaway LOLOL

 

[Salvo]

"the automatic celebration of cultural differences or the nonjudgmental view of socially counterproductive behavior cannot be continued if the goal is the wellbeing of actual flesh and blood people, rather than seeking cosmic justice for an intertemporal abstraction one can be humane or inhumane only to living people not to abstractions"

You know I value your opinion highly bro and I respect the hell out of you, I'm not trying to cause a divide here or anything like that. I agree counterproductive behaviour that causes harm to others can not be celebrated no matter what religious of cultural reasons are given.

Can I just ask what do you think happened with the whole George Floyd thing or Eric Garner for example? Do you think it was negligence, racism, unfortunate etc. I know we've had this discussion but if the purpose of the protest is police reform and perhaps more stringent standards and training being put into place with less acceptance for negligent and unsavoury behaviour then I think it is just and reasonable. Maybe I didnt make myself clear before. The looting, the bullshit violence, the people making it about themselves I don't agree.

And like we've discussed I do realise asking for reform is a really easy thing to say

 

[GordoDeCentral]

You know I value your opinion highly bro and I respect the hell out of you, I'm not trying to cause a divide here or anything like that. I agree counterproductive behaviour that causes harm to others can not be celebrated no matter what religious of cultural reasons are given.

Can I just ask what do you think happened with the whole George Floyd thing or Eric Garner for example? Do you think it was negligence, racism, unfortunate etc. I know we've had this discussion but if the purpose of the protest is police reform and perhaps more stringent standards and training being put into place with less acceptance for negligent and unsavoury behaviour then I think it is just and reasonable. Maybe I didnt make myself clear before. The looting, the bullshit violence, the people making it about themselves I don't agree.

And like we've discussed I do realise asking for reform is a really easy thing to say

Bro there's no divide ever, i know your intentions are good and you are really looking for the answers. The quote i posted above is to say if we really care for blacks or any other minority, then we shouldn't enable destructive behavior or celebrate cultures of failure. I unequivocally believe the reason so many blacks resort to crime and violence is due to the ghetto culture, that's what we need to protest and confront.

Police brutality or negligence is a direct result of the environment it is set in. If these people really cared for blacks in the ghetto they would be teachers and police officers there, but they won't because those jobs are extremely hard and dangerous. Additionally if we are going to talk about an issue we need data not anecdotes. Twice as many whites are killed by cops, can you name one?

My point is these protest in substance and in form will only exacerbate the real issue by validating the very thing that is keeping these people down.

 

[Salvo]

Bro there's no divide ever, i know your intentions are good and you are really looking for the answers. The quote i posted above is to say if we really care for blacks or any other minority, then we shouldn't enable destructive behavior or celebrate cultures of failure. I unequivocally believe the reason so many blacks resort to crime and violence is due to the ghetto culture, that's what we need to protest and confront.

Police brutality or negligence is a direct result of the environment it is set in. If these people really cared for blacks in the ghetto they would be teachers and police officers there, but they won't because those jobs are extremely hard and dangerous. Additionally if we are going to talk about an issue we need data not anecdotes. Twice as many whites are killed by cops, can you name one?

My point is these protest in substance and in form will only exacerbate the real issue by validating the very thing that is keeping these people down.

As I've always said it's not the only issue, not even close. I just hope that things improve for everyone and that shit like this doesn't happen anymore (utopia, I know).

 

[Hust]

Bro there's no divide ever, i know your intentions are good and you are really looking for the answers. The quote i posted above is to say if we really care for blacks or any other minority, then we shouldn't enable destructive behavior or celebrate cultures of failure. I unequivocally believe the reason so many blacks resort to crime and violence is due to the ghetto culture, that's what we need to protest and confront.

Police brutality or negligence is a direct result of the environment it is set in. If these people really cared for blacks in the ghetto they would be teachers and police officers there, but they won't because those jobs are extremely hard and dangerous. Additionally if we are going to talk about an issue we need data not anecdotes. Twice as many whites are killed by cops, can you name one?

My point is these protest in substance and in form will only exacerbate the real issue by validating the very thing that is keeping these people down.

Bolded. This.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

As I've always said it's not the only issue, not even close. I just hope that things improve for everyone and that shit like this doesn't happen anymore (utopia, I know).

We all do but like you said we don't live in that world

 

[Hust]

As I've always said it's not the only issue, not even close. I just hope that things improve for everyone and that shit like this doesn't happen anymore (utopia, I know).

Stuff like this will always happen. It shouldn't result in riots, it should result in swift punishment for the guilty so the world sees action is actually being taken and not only that, we can enforce it while not burning everything to the ground.

 

[Salvo]

Stuff like this will always happen. It shouldn't result in riots, it should result in swift punishment for the guilty so the world sees action is actually being taken and not only that, we can enforce it while not burning everything to the ground.

Definitely, ideally that would happen without any outside pressure. You can't hold the whole Industry accountable for one man's actions you'd just hope internally they uphold those standards.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Definitely, ideally that would happen without any outside pressure. You can't hold the whole Industry accountable for one man's actions you'd just hope internally they uphold those standards.

Ironically, you know what would take a lot of pressure off cops, organized crime

 

[Hust]

Definitely, ideally that would happen without any outside pressure. You can't hold the whole Industry accountable for one man's actions you'd just hope internally they uphold those standards.

Peaceful protests speak volumes. They worked to end segregation, they would work for police reform now. Unjustified violence is never the answer and the fucking cop will (hopefully all 4) are about to learn that.

These retarded celebrities and lunatic left calling to defund police are idiots. That's obviously not the answer. Cops aren't perfect but they are still effective in these minority communities.

As you know, I'm Conservative but I am quite liberal on a lot of social issues. Smart gun laws, etc. You can't take away guns AND defund police. What kind of logic is that?