'Murica! (128 Viewers)

[Seven]

Statistically, the numbers indicate otherwise. Anecdotal evidence shouldn't count.

But it feels nice to blame poor people for their poverty and praise yourself for your wealth.

 

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[campionesidd]

But it feels nice to blame poor people for their poverty and praise yourself for your wealth.

This lack of empathy is a common trait I see in many successful conservatives. Keep in mind, many of them are devout Christians (or at least pretend to be).

 

[Hust]

Statistically, the numbers indicate otherwise. Anecdotal evidence shouldn't count.

You see it happen all the time. It’s entirely effort driven imo. You can’t only “want” to improve your situation but actually be willing to take a risk or two along the way. No one is Blamig poor people, not sure what moral high ground Seven is trying to climb. It’s unfortunate to be born in less than ideal situations. Sometimes a complete change in environment is needed.

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This lack of empathy is a common trait I see in many successful conservatives. Keep in mind, many of them are devout Christians (or at least pretend to be).

Those devout Christian conservatives also donate a ton to helping others.

 

[Seven]

You see it happen all the time. It’s entirely effort driven imo. You can’t only “want” to improve your situation but actually be willing to take a risk or two along the way. No one is Blamig poor people, not sure what moral high ground Seven is trying to climb. It’s unfortunate to be born in less than ideal situations. Sometimes a complete change in environment is needed.

A risk is almost literally the opposite of being rewarded for hard work:

Definition of risk
1 : possibility of loss or injury : peril
2 : someone or something that creates or suggests a hazard
3 a : the chance of loss or the perils to the subject matter of an insurance contract; also : the degree of probability of such loss
b : a person or thing that is a specified hazard to an insurer
c : an insurance hazard from a specified cause or source

war risk

4 : the chance that an investment (such as a stock or commodity) will lose value

Risk comes down to luck.

So, congratulations, you got lucky.

 

[Maddy]

This is simply cognitive bias from Hustini (belief perseverance). He simply isn't able to switch from a conviction despite being presented with evidence of the opposite. Instead he commits classic fallacies such as ad hominem, red herring and anecdotal evidence to keep convincing himself (not us) that he is right.

The idea that the american dream is an illusion is challenging his fundamental believes; similar to religious people, which is why he is reacting this way.

We all do it to a certain degree; but those with limited academic experience will often have a harder tiem with their bonehead tendencies.

 

[Hust]

Yep. I am lucky. Took gambles, worked hard to make myself competitive without a lot of money but it worked. I do feel lucky and fortunate

 

[Seven]

Yep. I am lucky. Took gambles, worked hard to make myself competitive without a lot of money but it worked. I do feel lucky and fortunate

What about the people who gamble and don't get lucky?

 

[Hust]

What about the people who gamble and don't get lucky?

What about them? Did they stop after one try? Did they try something different? Change their environment?

I failed Plenty of times at a career change but eventually got it right.

 

[Seven]

What about them? Did they stop after one try? Did they try something different? Change their environment?

Yeah, I guess they should have gone to Europe.

Don't you see the issue here? If you're having to resort to risks or gambles or whatever you want to call it, there is a significant possiblity that things will not go well. That's why they are gambles in the first place.

So what do you do with the people who lose? They didn't really do anything wrong. Did the same as you did. Worked hard, took a gamble. But in their case it didn't pay off. So now what? They should be homeless and starving? Or.. What, what's your opinion on this?

 

[Hust]

Yeah, I guess they should have gone to Europe.

Don't you see the issue here? If you're having to resort to risks or gambles or whatever you want to call it, there is a significant possiblity that things will not go well. That's why they are gambles in the first place.

So what do you do with the people who lose? They didn't really do anything wrong. Did the same as you did. Worked hard, took a gamble. But in their case it didn't pay off. So now what? They should be homeless and starving? Or.. What, what's your opinion on this?

I almost think that you genuinely believe that I think there should be zero welfare solutions to help those that really need it. I hope I’m wrong in that regard.

 

[Seven]

I almost think that you genuinely believe that I think there should be zero welfare solutions to help those that really need it. I hope I’m wrong in that regard.

No, I don't. Far from it. I think you just don't realise why it's a bad idea to make people depend on welfare, just because one gamble in life didn't work out. The goal should be that almost no one depends on welfare.

 

[Hust]

No, I don't. Far from it. I think you just don't realise why it's a bad idea to make people depend on welfare, just because one gamble in life didn't work out. The goal should be that almost no one depends on welfare.

I don’t want anyone to ever have to depend on welfare benefits. It sucks to be in that position. I agree that the goal is to make sure people only need it as a last resort and never need it. It will always be necessary. I also don’t disagree that most of Europe is also a good place to achieve upward mobility. My stance has been that albeit maybe harder here i see a bigger upside in the states.

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Also, taking a gamble (I.e school loan) doesn’t necessarily push you onto welfare unless you choose a pointless degree with low job prospects. A gamble to me doesn’t mean it’s automatic welfare.

 

[Seven]

I don’t want anyone to ever have to depend on welfare benefits. It sucks to be in that position. I agree that the goal is to make sure people only need it as a last resort and never need it. It will always be necessary. I also don’t disagree that most of Europe is also a good place to achieve upward mobility. My stance has been that albeit maybe harder here i see a bigger upside in the states.

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Also, taking a gamble (I.e school loan) doesn’t necessarily push you onto welfare unless you choose a pointless degree with low job prospects. A gamble to me doesn’t mean it’s automatic welfare.

No, of course not.

But my point is that your system should be such that, if you work hard, fair compensation is sort of guaranteed. Obviously you don't get to be a total moron and choose African studies as a major or something and expect to be paid millions. But if you're willing to work, surely you should be entitled to earning enough money to have a somewhat comfortable life?

I'd agree that, with the right kind of risk taking, it is probably easier to become a millionaire in the US than it is over here. But those are very few people. I think social mobility overall, and especially when're we talking about the broad middle class, is much higher in Western Europe.

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This is simply cognitive bias from Hustini (belief perseverance). He simply isn't able to switch from a conviction despite being presented with evidence of the opposite. Instead he commits classic fallacies such as ad hominem, red herring and anecdotal evidence to keep convincing himself (not us) that he is right.

The idea that the american dream is an illusion is challenging his fundamental believes; similar to religious people, which is why he is reacting this way.

We all do it to a certain degree; but those with limited academic experience will often have a harder tiem with their bonehead tendencies.

I know I do it. And often too. But there comes a lightbulb moment for everyone.

 

[Maddy]

I know I do it. And often too. But there comes a lightbulb moment for everyone.

It's extremely hard. It makes us very uncomfortable. It even has its own field within psychology - actually looking to do something within that field in time. But yeah, at a certain time you just look dumb when you reject facts in that manner.

I actually posted a video in another thread yesterday with the extreme left wing equivalent of Hustinis behaviour:

http://www.juventuz.com/threads/43028-General-News-amp-Politics/page14?p=5686592#post5686592

 

[Hust]

No, of course not.

But my point is that your system should be such that, if you work hard, fair compensation is sort of guaranteed. Obviously you don't get to be a total moron and choose African studies as a major or something and expect to be paid millions. But if you're willing to work, surely you should be entitled to earning enough money to have a somewhat comfortable life?

I'd agree that, with the right kind of risk taking, it is probably easier to become a millionaire in the US than it is over here. But those are very few people. I think social mobility overall, and especially when're we talking about the broad middle class, is much higher in Western Europe.

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I know I do it. And often too. But there comes a lightbulb moment for everyone.

See, was that hard?

 

[pavelnel]

The main problem with the American capitalism is that it ever increasingly rewards the winners at the expense of the rest of the population. As a result the wealth is becoming heavily concentrated in the hands of very small percent of the people.
The so called risk takers are taking bigger and bigger risks where the profits are kept among them but the loses are dumped on the common folks.
The enviromental and social costs are often not taken into consideration with the same seriousnes as the financial costs but most of the time they are even more devastating ( just wait to see the mountains of rubbish the cryptoshits will generate..)
There is no doubt in my mind that the current administration will leave a big mess which will be very hard to clean.



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[IliveForJuve]

It's probably easier to become a millionaire in South America than in Europe or the US.

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Also, huge lol @ student loans in the US. That's actually a huge gamble. A life changing gamble for some people.

Europeans risk less and get more or less the same chances of success.

 

[Nzoric]

What about them? Did they stop after one try? Did they try something different? Change their environment?

I failed Plenty of times at a career change but eventually got it right.

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[Ronn]

Those devout Christian conservatives also donate a ton to helping others.

Since we're all about anecdotal evidence here, I know a devout Christian conservative who has a company, and is a pastor of a church. He donates every cent of income from his company to his own church, and pays a salary to himself and his children. On top of that, he collects a salary from UT Austin because he's a tenured professor.
His company conducts research projects for US Army and Navy, and whenever somebody from Navy shows up for a visit, he always dresses up in his pastoral robes. This devout Christian conservative probably games the system as much as thousands of "lazy" welfare collectors combined.

 

[IliveForJuve]

What about them? Did they stop after one try? Did they try something different? Change their environment?

I failed Plenty of times at a career change but eventually got it right.

That's the difference between winners and losers no matter what country you're in.

You failed? Okay, adjust and try again.