'Murica! (320 Viewers)

[Enron]

Been following this girl for awhile now. I like her.

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Unless this guy fired his rifle before being knocked down, kicked in the head and hit with a skateboard all I see here is self defense against an angry mob.

Maybe. Just maybe...don’t try to take a guy on with a skateboard.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...unded-BLM-protesters-defy-curfew-Kenosha.html

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That’s their consequence for being stupid and in the wrong place at the wrong time.

the people that get arrested are let off the next day because the whole “we aren’t pressing charges” AGs in these cities.

the article says he fired before being kicked in the head, knocked down, etc

basically, from what I understand the timeline is...

kid was at gas station with other militant group, not part of the group

argument happens at gas station, shots fired

kid runs, then video picks up

It will be interesting to see what happens since he said “I killed someone”, could be a big mistake. would love to see the police report

 

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[Post Ironic]

The orange baboon is the one presiding over all these riots, the looting, the civil unrest, nearly 200,000 dead in the pandemic, etc. He’s the one fanning the flames, stoking The fires of racial tension, exacerbating inequality between rich and poor with handouts to his rich cronies and corporations.

Not the democrats, not Biden, not Harris, not Obama, not Hillary, not BLM, not Antifa, not the mainstream media. None of this was going on during Obama’s 8 years.

This is Trump’s presidency, Trump’s America. And a big lol at people who think it will get better by giving this piece of shit clown 4 more years.

 

[Hust]

the article says he fired before being kicked in the head, knocked down, etc

basically, from what I understand the timeline is...

kid was at gas station with other militant group, not part of the group

argument happens at gas station, shots fired

kid runs, then video picks up

It will be interesting to see what happens since he said “I killed someone”, could be a big mistake. would love to see the police report

Here is what I'm gathering about the other 3:

I give you Joseph Rosenbaum (convicted sex felon with a minor):



Next I give you Anthony Huber (violent criminal background):



Finally, I give you Paul Grosskreutz (who was armed, a known felon who isn't allowed to own a weapon apparently):





Let me ask you guys this, b/c for the most part I know where many of you stand (I think). These 3 guys (two now dead) are all criminals. Don't you think its odd they are part of a movement that wants to disband the police and/or hurt them? Don't you guys get it? They are fighting the system that punished them. Its the BAD GUYS that want the system down. It's the bad guys basically set free...in some cases LITERALLY set free after being arrested because coward political appointees are setting them free.

As of now, I believe the 17 year old is right to have been arrested pending a full investigation. From what I can see, he fled on foot and was attacked by the same crew that confronted his little "band of brothers" at whatever store he was trying to protect.

Also, the guy that had his arm turned to Swiss cheese also pointed a handgun at him earlier as evidence here:

We are at a point where the political class has lost all control and 17 year olds are arming up to defend their town.

 

[j0ker]

We are at a point where the political class has lost all control and 17 year olds are arming up to defend their town.

Except it wasn't his town, not even his state.

 

[Hust]

Except it wasn't his town, not even his state.

And? It's his country, and a lot of people are starting to look at it through that lens I'm afraid. I am sure he will be held accountable for breaking whatever laws stand but if he has a permit for firearms with reciprocity in that state, then who knows. I have a concealed carry permit that has reciprocity in most states so if I were to get pulled over with it, I should be OK as long as I tell them. However, big HOWEVER, I don't know what the law is about carrying an assault rifle like that across state lines.

Point is. People are fed up. If criminals and BLM idiots can travel from Chicago to Kenosha then why can't other people trying to help the community?

 

[ALC]

Sounds like a lot of ad hominem attacks on the protesters here.

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And he doesn’t have a permit, he’s 17

 

[Hust]

Looks like the guy that got shot in his arm was getting ready to unload his mag into him.

Self defense.

 

[swag]

Hardly a fair comparison, especially since as soon as Trump was the candidate they labeled him as a racist and Russian agent, both untrue. And in those South American countries, they have people literally starving to death because of rationing and socialism, quite different from here. Plenty of differences, but unfortunately people are held hostage by the narrative because they have been wrecked by yellow journalism or engage in rent seeking. It’s similar to the Repubs catering to AIPAC, except on a much more massive scale.

The problem is professional, middle of the road folks who just want to be left alone, make money, and not see the country destroyed are starting to see through this charade, so it could end up backfiring. The more it escalates the worse it will get especially as police are defunded and people will see their livelihoods destroyed because of utter stupidity.

There were people wanting to round up Trump even before the election. That was the m.o. behind Hillary's deplorables gaffe and a haffe. So there is no question to me that Trump has been demonized for things he hasn't done. And yet what he has done, or not done, but hasn't been held accountable for is probably far worse, IMO.

But let's turn to your interesting and revealing point about professional, middle of the road folks. What are their prospects, really? Is this a world that is growing for them, or sliding away? There's evidence on either side. But I am leaning in terms of sheer numbers of people as a population ratio, the status quo has been a downward trend. That's under Trump, but that's also under Obama and Bush too.

you know why? Because that armed burglar and muggers intent is to harm and/or kill you so you’re left with no choice but to fight back.

the 17 year old was running away, fell down and was attacked. Unless I haven’t seen the hole video or an odd angle then I don’t see how it wasn’t self defense

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it backfired in 2016. It will again.
The normal people that want to be left alone will make sure their voices are heard.

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And for those of us in Virginia, you can now assault police and only get a misdemeanor likely leading to no jail time.

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?202+sum+SB5032

@Bjerknes this is the sort of move that gets people’s attention and motivated to get out and vote.

A 17 year old came to brandish a gun and escalate violence. I would see that as a threat questioning my safety... and not wholly irrational for being in a group he's hostile towards where it might feel like he's there to take you out unless you take him out first.

Self-defense also gets murky with this stand-your-ground nonsense, and I don't know if Wisconsin has that. (Let alone if "stand your ground" includes driving 50 miles across another state's border with a weapon to qualify.) If some thugs come at me in the street, I could have the crap beat out of me. But unless they too are brandishing guns, playing a round of Doom with them can also be a bit excessive. If a group comes my way, does that entitle me to shoot everyone within a few feet of me in a 360-degree radius? That's as much of an asymmetric escalation of force as Jacob Blake got from the cops.

 

[Hust]

There were people wanting to round up Trump even before the election. That was the m.o. behind Hillary's deplorables gaffe and a haffe. So there is no question to me that Trump has been demonized for things he hasn't done. And yet what he has done, or not done, but hasn't been held accountable for is probably far worse, IMO.

But let's turn to your interesting and revealing point about professional, middle of the road folks. What are their prospects, really? Is this a world that is growing for them, or sliding away? There's evidence on either side. But I am leaning in terms of sheer numbers of people as a population ratio, the status quo has been a downward trend. That's under Trump, but that's also under Obama and Bush too.



A 17 year old came to brandish a gun and escalate violence. I would see that as a threat questioning my safety... and not wholly irrational for being in a group he's hostile towards where it might feel like he's there to take you out unless you take him out first.

Self-defense also gets murky with this stand-your-ground nonsense, and I don't know if Wisconsin has that. (Let alone if "stand your ground" includes driving 50 miles across another state's border with a weapon to qualify.) If some thugs come at me in the street, I could have the crap beat out of me. But unless they too are brandishing guns, playing a round of Doom with them can also be a bit excessive. If a group comes my way, does that entitle me to shoot everyone within a few feet of me in a 360-degree radius? That's as much of an asymmetric escalation of force as Jacob Blake got from the cops.

You've got a video, multiple videos I think of the scene when he shoots. I don't think its so murky anymore.

If you see the picture above of a guy holding a pistol in his face, who is there "really" threatening your safety in this case? I don't know if there is evidence or if I haven't seen it yet of this kid pointing his weapon at anyone up until the moment he is on the ground shooting?

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He shot the guy holding a pistol (and moments before already had the gun in his face). He knew that guy had a gun drawn. The other guy hit him with a skateboard, the other guy was kicking him. What in any of that does not appear to be self-defense?


I don't know what the laws are from Illinois to Wisconsin, how he legally or illegally obtained a firearm, that's going to be brought up in court.

 

[Enron]

Here is what I'm gathering about the other 3:

I give you Joseph Rosenbaum (convicted sex felon with a minor):



Next I give you Anthony Huber (violent criminal background):



Finally, I give you Paul Grosskreutz (who was armed, a known felon who isn't allowed to own a weapon apparently):





Let me ask you guys this, b/c for the most part I know where many of you stand (I think). These 3 guys (two now dead) are all criminals. Don't you think its odd they are part of a movement that wants to disband the police and/or hurt them? Don't you guys get it? They are fighting the system that punished them. Its the BAD GUYS that want the system down. It's the bad guys basically set free...in some cases LITERALLY set free after being arrested because coward political appointees are setting them free.

As of now, I believe the 17 year old is right to have been arrested pending a full investigation. From what I can see, he fled on foot and was attacked by the same crew that confronted his little "band of brothers" at whatever store he was trying to protect.

Also, the guy that had his arm turned to Swiss cheese also pointed a handgun at him earlier as evidence here:

We are at a point where the political class has lost all control and 17 year olds are arming up to defend their town.

I appreciate your effort Cam. This is a very informative post. I definitely understand people wanting to bring down a system that doesn’t work for them. Which it seems to be a notion held by black and criminals.

A couple of things:
First, I don’t think any of them are innocent but at least you’re consistent with your justification. criminal record or anti-establishment politics equals deserved death. fair enough I can understand that logic

Second, it wasn’t the kid’s town, he literally has an extradition hearing in the morning. He took a gun to a gun fight

 

[Hust]

I appreciate your effort Cam. This is a very informative post. I definitely understand people wanting to bring down a system that doesn’t work for them. Which it seems to be a notion held by black and criminals.

A couple of things:
First, I don’t think any of them are innocent but at least you’re consistent with your justification. criminal record or anti-establishment politics equals deserved death. fair enough I can understand that logic

Second, it wasn’t the kid’s town, he literally has an extradition hearing in the morning. He took a gun to a gun fight

Yeppers - I am sure he will have charges thrown at him like candy at Mardi Gras, I'm more curious to see which ones stick. Really curious to know how he got the gun to begin with. Stolen? Borrowed? If its borrowed, then you can be sure whoever let him use it is going to go down as well for sure. I know he is being extradited to WI but maybe he already has?

I never said criminal record or anti-establishment deserves death. They attacked him. One guy had a hand gun out and already aimed it at him once before, I mean, the intentions seemed clear enough to defend yourself. My point with showing their criminal record was to highlight why they are even there to begin with.

 

[lgorTudor]

Second, it wasn’t the kid’s town, he literally has an extradition hearing in the morning. He took a gun to a gun fight

He attended some military cadet school in the neighboring city

 

[Enron]

Yeppers - I am sure he will have charges thrown at him like candy at Mardi Gras, I'm more curious to see which ones stick. Really curious to know how he got the gun to begin with. Stolen? Borrowed? If its borrowed, then you can be sure whoever let him use it is going to go down as well for sure. I know he is being extradited to WI but maybe he already has?

lol I read a rumor that his mom drove him and picked him up. In addition to the ones regarding the origin of his weapon

I think he already has first degree charges, but I don’t know what else. Which is why I was wondering about the police report.

I read in the Kenosha paper that the hearing is tomorrow.

 

[Enron]

He attended some military cadet school in the neighboring city

unfortunate for him if the case

 

[Hust]

lol I read a rumor that his mom drove him and picked him up. In addition to the ones regarding the origin of his weapon

I think he already has first degree charges, but I don’t know what else. Which is why I was wondering about the police report.

I read in the Kenosha paper that the hearing is tomorrow.

Isn't there a video of him telling the police that he just killed someone and they basically told him to move out of the way? That's an odd bit of dialogue if you ask me.

Hey, I just killed someone. "Can you please move off the road"?

lol if the gun was borrowed, that guy will probably have the book thrown at him too.

 

[Post Ironic]

And? It's his country, and a lot of people are starting to look at it through that lens I'm afraid. I am sure he will be held accountable for breaking whatever laws stand but if he has a permit for firearms with reciprocity in that state, then who knows. I have a concealed carry permit that has reciprocity in most states so if I were to get pulled over with it, I should be OK as long as I tell them. However, big HOWEVER, I don't know what the law is about carrying an assault rifle like that across state lines.

Point is. People are fed up. If criminals and BLM idiots can travel from Chicago to Kenosha then why can't other people trying to help the community?

And yet this is Trump’s America. Looks truly great again. There were problems under Clinton, Bush, Obama domestically, but nothing even close to this. None of them were spewing A constant stream of hatred, bigotry, and intolerance like Trump. Your president has stoked the hatred for all he’s worth, and created a situation where violent imbeciles can attach themselves to groups of mostly reasonable and peaceful people on both sides of the political divide. This is Newt Gingrich’s legacy of treating the other side like traitors and treasonous scum who don’t deserve to be Americans. And Trump took up that mantle with glee. (Hillary too to some extent)

 

[Hust]

And yet this is Trump’s America. Looks truly great again. There were problems under Clinton, Bush, Obama domestically, but nothing even close to this. None of them were spewing A constant stream of hatred, bigotry, and intolerance like Trump. Your president has stoked the hatred for all he’s worth, and created a situation where violent imbeciles can attach themselves to groups of mostly reasonable and peaceful people on both sides of the political divide.

I agree he hasn't helped. But these kinds of sentiments have been brewing for some time. I think you know that. Definitely accelerated during this term for sure.

 

[Post Ironic]

I agree he hasn't helped. But these kinds of sentiments have been brewing for some time. I think you know that. Definitely accelerated during this term for sure.

They definitely have. We talked about it the other day. IMO this downward slide began with Gingrich politicking in the mid-late 90s, treating the opposition like the enemy, like traitors to American values, and both the democrats and republicans ran with it from there. Political discourse in America is toxic, from the top down.

That was the hope of the Obama presidency, a change from the escalating rhetoric between the two sides, bringing people together, partisan cooperation to some tangible degree... Obama was seen as a moderate, with the oratory skills, and personality to reach out and bridge the divide. Unfortunately that just wasn’t the case and both sides stayed firmly entrenched with zero desire to cooperate. Obama failed in what should have been, at least for me, the most important achievement of his presidency. And that’s on both conservatives and liberals.

And now we have Trump who thrives on escalating rhetoric and stoking tensions, on making the divide more unbridgeable.

 

[Hust]

They definitely have. We talked about it the other day. IMO this downward slide began with Gingrich politicking in the mid-late 90s, treating the opposition like the enemy, like traitors to American values, and both the democrats and republicans ran with it from there. Political discourse in America is toxic, from the top down.

That was the hope of the Obama presidency, a change from the escalating rhetoric between the two sides, bringing people together, partisan cooperation to some tangible degree... Obama was seen as a moderate, with the oratory skills, and personality to reach out and bridge the divide. Unfortunately that just wasn’t the case and both sides stayed firmly entrenched with zero desire to cooperate. Obama failed in what should have been, at least for me, the most important achievement of his presidency. And that’s on both conservatives and liberals.

And now we have Trump who thrives on escalating rhetoric and stoking tensions, on making the divide more unbridgeable.

We did, my bad man I completely forgot. Too much Dzeko news gets my side tracked. It's a sad time but I think with the extreme position the sides have cemented themselves, what we are seeing now is simply the natural order of things I guess. Will it get worse before it gets better? Not looking good right now.

 

[Post Ironic]

We did, my bad man I completely forgot. Too much Dzeko news gets my side tracked. It's a sad time but I think with the extreme position the sides have cemented themselves, what we are seeing now is simply the natural order of things I guess. Will it get worse before it gets better? Not looking good right now.

I’d love to see more moderate republicans and democrats follow the example of Justin Amash and become independents. Steer away from the fringe of each party and find some common ground. But instead, those moderates seem to be increasingly marginalized and left voiceless. A moderate third party would be such a blessing. I don’t see it happening, but I’ll keep wishing lol.