'Murica! (290 Viewers)

[Ronn]

Yes. Not that it's abnormal in West, Central or North Florida but this isn't really the kind of thing you'd see in South Eastern Florida.

My brother lives in southwest Florida and spotting confederate flag is a daily reality. Hardly surprising that they upped their game now.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Nzoric]

Yes. Not that it's abnormal in West, Central or North Florida but this isn't really the kind of thing you'd see in South Eastern Florida.

Inb4 asian lady crashes into their truck

 

[ALC]

What happens if you get sick?

I have health insurance from my work.

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Low socio-economic mobility, the cost of education, high inequality, gun-violence, crime-rate in general, prison population, obesity, a disfunctioning democracy (compare these with Canada, Australia, Germany, Swizerland, The Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden and Norway). And the poverty rate! 43 million americans live under the poverty rate in the worlds richest country. Yeah, that's GREAT!

Now "great" is extremely subjective. But 'the american dream' is long gone and is all but a hoax nowadays.

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No. It isn't.

You're right, great is subjective but I've gone to school with immigrants from all over the world who went on to achieve great things. The opportunity is there. The low socio-economic thing is not exactly true. My parents brought me here with very little, I never had the latest phone or any video game systems or a big house like all my friends. A lot of kids I was close with in high school ended up getting into drugs and jail but that was 100% due to their actions. I was determined in school and we took the same classes. I ended up going to engineering college and busting my ass trying to find a job even when I was hopeless and they took the drug dealing way. My parents worked two jobs and theirs took government assistance.

Now we are on completely different situations and it is all due to different upbringings and approaches to life. It is different if you're raised on a shit hole of a city but for the vast majority of people, the opportunities are there. I've met kids from North Philly who have been able to overcome their environment. It is all about approach and the opportunities are there for mostly everyone.

Is the US perfect? No. Is it great? I think so.

 

[Martin]

Is the US perfect? No. Is it great? I think so.

well then. problem solved. will you let Andy know?

 

[Post Ironic]

I have health insurance from my work.

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You're right, great is subjective but I've gone to school with immigrants from all over the world who went on to achieve great things. The opportunity is there. The low socio-economic thing is not exactly true. My parents brought me here with very little, I never had the latest phone or any video game systems or a big house like all my friends. A lot of kids I was close with in high school ended up getting into drugs and jail but that was 100% due to their actions. I was determined in school and we took the same classes. I ended up going to engineering college and busting my ass trying to find a job even when I was hopeless and they took the drug dealing way. My parents worked two jobs and theirs took government assistance.

Now we are on completely different situations and it is all due to different upbringings and approaches to life. It is different if you're raised on a shit hole of a city but for the vast majority of people, the opportunities are there. I've met kids from North Philly who have been able to overcome their environment. It is all about approach and the opportunities are there for mostly everyone.

Is the US perfect? No. Is it great? I think so.

The problem in part, is environment, and nurture for that matter.

Even though you grew up with little, it sounds like your parents instilled in you a great work ethic and a drive to improve your condition, to learn, to grow, to value education, and so on... That means you had fantastic parents. Or so goes my opinion.

Many people in poverty have parents who devalue education, who don't support their children learning, growing, expanding their horizons, so to speak... or at least just don't give a shit. It's also a societal-cultural thing in the poor classes in North America of late, to place very little emphasis on education. It's part of the reason the inner city public school system has fallen into decay and ruin in America. Sure, there are exceptions, and some people manage to overcome the odds stacked heavily against them, but that's asking a lot of a child, when the environment they are raised in is so opposed to any kind of opportunity for success.

 

[acmilan]

well then. problem solved. will you let Andy know?

Trump won. Andy already knows.

 

[ALC]

The problem in part, is environment, and nurture for that matter.

Even though you grew up with little, it sounds like your parents instilled in you a great work ethic and a drive to improve your condition, to learn, to grow, to value education, and so on... That means you had fantastic parents. Or so goes my opinion.

Many people in poverty have parents who devalue education, who don't support their children learning, growing, expanding their horizons, so to speak... or at least just don't give a shit. It's also a societal-cultural thing in the poor classes in North America of late, to place very little emphasis on education. It's part of the reason the inner city public school system has fallen into decay and ruin in America. Sure, there are exceptions, and some people manage to overcome the odds stacked heavily against them, but that's asking a lot of a child, when the environment they are raised in is so opposed to any kind of opportunity for success.

Thank you, my parents are indeed pretty fantastic

And yeah, that is the issue at large. Education but then there is the fact that many people do not value it. And I don't mean necessarily college but even trade school or learning something to do for a living. That's where that disconnect occurs. Is it the state who is responsible for that? I'm not sure, people like that exist in every country and the bigger the country, the more you will notice it.

Can the state do something about it? Perhaps. But it is not willingly holding people down.

 

[Martin]

But it is not willingly holding people down.

against its will?

 

[Post Ironic]

Thank you, my parents are indeed pretty fantastic

And yeah, that is the issue at large. Education but then there is the fact that many people do not value it. And I don't mean necessarily college but even trade school or learning something to do for a living. That's where that disconnect occurs. Is it the state who is responsible for that? I'm not sure, people like that exist in every country and the bigger the country, the more you will notice it.

Can the state do something about it? Perhaps. But it is not willingly holding people down.

But that's the discourse between right and left on the political spectrum. What exactly is the state responsible for? What should be privatized, what should be public?

The problem with promoting privatization of education, healthcare, etc. as the right does, is that it leaves the impoverished and the lower middle class behind. It suggests that trickle-down effect will benefit those people eventually, but that's never really occurred.

When the public school system falls apart, especially in the inner cities, due to government taking away tax dollars, and making spending cuts, it makes it even easier for people to delegitimize the system further and place even less value on education. The functional literacy rates of America's inner cities are depressing as fuck. And slashing government funding for public education which is where alt-right policy leads, is a nightmare for the idea of the "American Dream". Education is what levels the playing field to some extent and separates the first world from the third world, and being a caste system.

Conservative politics of the 50s to 70s understood this. It's this modern, post-Reagan conservatism that has swung further and further to the right, and favoured more and more massive tax cuts, slashed public spending, deregulation, etc. that is a problem in my view. These things don't mesh with a well-educated lower class. And imo the state has a responsibility to provide that education and opportunity by providing adequate funding for public education. Not University. Not post-secondary. Not trade school. But people will be more motivated to seek such things out, if they receive a good elementary and secondary school education. They should not be making it through 10-12 years of school while remaining functionally illiterate. Unless the desire is to return to feudalism and serfdom.

 

[ALC]

But that's the discourse between right and left on the political spectrum. What exactly is the state responsible for? What should be privatized, what should be public?

The problem with promoting privatization of education, healthcare, etc. as the right does, is that it leaves the impoverished and the lower middle class behind. It suggests that trickle-down effect will benefit those people eventually, but that's never really occurred.

When the public school system falls apart, especially in the inner cities, do to government taking away tax dollars, and making spending cuts, it makes it even easier for people to devalue the system further and place even less value on education. The functional literacy rates of America's inner cities are depressing as fuck. And slashing government funding for public education which is where alt-right policy leads, is a nightmare for the idea of the "American Dream". Education is what levels the playing field to some extent and separates the first world from the third world, and being a caste system.

Conservative politics of the 50s to 70s understood this. It's this modern, post-Reagan conservatism that has swung further and further to the right, and favoured more and more massive tax cuts, slashed public spending, deregulation, etc. that is a problem in my view. These things don't mesh with a well-educated lower class. And imo the state has a responsibility to provide that education and opportunity by providing adequate funding for public education. Not University. Not post-secondary. Not trade school. But people will be more motivated to seek such things out, if they receive a good elementary and secondary school education. They should not be making it through 10-12 years of school while remaining functionally illiterate. Unless the desire is to return to feudalism and serfdom.

I definitely agree about schools having to be public and receiving more funds. One of my roommates is a teacher in a Philly school and they get nothing. Suburban schools on the other hand, get a lot more tax money which doesn't seem fair. High school education should be mandatory, I was referring to college only.

 

[Ronn]

But that's the discourse between right and left on the political spectrum. What exactly is the state responsible for? What should be privatized, what should be public?

The problem with promoting privatization of education, healthcare, etc. as the right does, is that it leaves the impoverished and the lower middle class behind. It suggests that trickle-down effect will benefit those people eventually, but that's never really occurred.

When the public school system falls apart, especially in the inner cities, do to government taking away tax dollars, and making spending cuts, it makes it even easier for people to devalue the system further and place even less value on education. The functional literacy rates of America's inner cities are depressing as fuck. And slashing government funding for public education which is where alt-right policy leads, is a nightmare for the idea of the "American Dream". Education is what levels the playing field to some extent and separates the first world from the third world, and being a caste system.

Conservative politics of the 50s to 70s understood this. It's this modern, post-Reagan conservatism that has swung further and further to the right, and favoured more and more massive tax cuts, slashed public spending, deregulation, etc. that is a problem in my view. These things don't mesh with a well-educated lower class. And imo the state has a responsibility to provide that education and opportunity by providing adequate funding for public education. Not University. Not post-secondary. Not trade school. But people will be more motivated to seek such things out, if they receive a good elementary and secondary school education. They should not be making it through 10-12 years of school while remaining functionally illiterate. Unless the desire is to return to feudalism and serfdom.

great post

Btw I compared the exit polls of 2008, 2012 and 2016 elections. In 2008 67% of under 30k income bracket voted for Obama. That number went down to 65% in 2012 and 53% in 2016 (for HRC).


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[acmilan]

But that's the discourse between right and left on the political spectrum. What exactly is the state responsible for? What should be privatized, what should be public?

The problem with promoting privatization of education, healthcare, etc. as the right does, is that it leaves the impoverished and the lower middle class behind. It suggests that trickle-down effect will benefit those people eventually, but that's never really occurred.

When the public school system falls apart, especially in the inner cities, do to government taking away tax dollars, and making spending cuts, it makes it even easier for people to devalue the system further and place even less value on education. The functional literacy rates of America's inner cities are depressing as fuck. And slashing government funding for public education which is where alt-right policy leads, is a nightmare for the idea of the "American Dream". Education is what levels the playing field to some extent and separates the first world from the third world, and being a caste system.

Conservative politics of the 50s to 70s understood this. It's this modern, post-Reagan conservatism that has swung further and further to the right, and favoured more and more massive tax cuts, slashed public spending, deregulation, etc. that is a problem in my view. These things don't mesh with a well-educated lower class. And imo the state has a responsibility to provide that education and opportunity by providing adequate funding for public education. Not University. Not post-secondary. Not trade school. But people will be more motivated to seek such things out, if they receive a good elementary and secondary school education. They should not be making it through 10-12 years of school while remaining functionally illiterate. Unless the desire is to return to feudalism and serfdom.

 

[Ocelot]

Well this thread has certainly taken a few turns the past few pages

But that's the discourse between right and left on the political spectrum. What exactly is the state responsible for? What should be privatized, what should be public?

The problem with promoting privatization of education, healthcare, etc. as the right does, is that it leaves the impoverished and the lower middle class behind. It suggests that trickle-down effect will benefit those people eventually, but that's never really occurred.

When the public school system falls apart, especially in the inner cities, due to government taking away tax dollars, and making spending cuts, it makes it even easier for people to delegitimize the system further and place even less value on education. The functional literacy rates of America's inner cities are depressing as fuck. And slashing government funding for public education which is where alt-right policy leads, is a nightmare for the idea of the "American Dream". Education is what levels the playing field to some extent and separates the first world from the third world, and being a caste system.

Conservative politics of the 50s to 70s understood this. It's this modern, post-Reagan conservatism that has swung further and further to the right, and favoured more and more massive tax cuts, slashed public spending, deregulation, etc. that is a problem in my view. These things don't mesh with a well-educated lower class. And imo the state has a responsibility to provide that education and opportunity by providing adequate funding for public education. Not University. Not post-secondary. Not trade school. But people will be more motivated to seek such things out, if they receive a good elementary and secondary school education. They should not be making it through 10-12 years of school while remaining functionally illiterate. Unless the desire is to return to feudalism and serfdom.

What I would add though is that the problem in the bolded part runs much deeper than simply a lack of public school funding. Even in public schools in inner city-high poverty areas that comparatively receive a lot of money results are often horrible.

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[swag]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...es-frustration-donald-trumps-election-victory
@Osman @Ronn

Pop

That was pretty awesome.

The best thing to happen to India two years ago when our right wing nutjob was elected Prime Minister was that I knew exactly whom to remove from my Facebook feed in the aftermath

Well, given your roots, I am kind of relieved to hear you say that. When he/the BJP came to prominence, my thoughts were along the lines of "uh oh, here comes the door opening for intolerance" but then when I hadn't heard many of my Desi friends say such a thing, I just though what the hell do I know about politics in India. Your description makes a lot more sense to me.

this is not my president anymore

what a disappointment

This kind of bugs me though. Democracy works when you respect the office and not just who's in it. It's the electoral process that gets someone there, even if almost half are always on the losing side. It's the only way the whole friggin' thing works.

So when the '86 Chicago Bears get a belated White House invitation from Obama and Dan Hampton has to sit it out because he doesn't agree with Obama's politics, I want to kick people like that upside the head for being so infantile.

I read somewhere that those "riots" are funded

This professional protestor line cracks me up. Like there are people who are so caught up in conspiracy theories that they believe there's some wealthy backers who are bankrolling professionally trained protestors to cause municipal damage ... as if that actually is going to make any real difference to anybody in the grand scheme of things.

Dafuq? How can someone be so clueless as to believe there are puppet forces out there who are paying lower income people of color to make noise in a few urban centers as if that's somehow going to overthrow the establishment?

Why is the simple plausible explanation that there are a bunch of voters who are upset and need an outlet to vent not sufficient to explain the phenomenon without resorting to the illuminati theory?

I definitely agree about schools having to be public and receiving more funds. One of my roommates is a teacher in a Philly school and they get nothing. Suburban schools on the other hand, get a lot more tax money which doesn't seem fair. High school education should be mandatory, I was referring to college only.

I completely disagree here. Good schools aren't directly correlated with funding as much as other factors. Throwing money at the problem does not change social structures, it does not change parents, it does not change teachers into people who give a shit, it does not give kids ambition.

 

[Martin]

I completely disagree here. Good schools aren't directly correlated with funding as much as other factors. Throwing money at the problem does not change social structures, it does not change parents, it does not change teachers into people who give a $#@!, it does not give kids ambition.

here, have a glass of water. then tell us the rest

 

[.zero]

@Martin have you vacated the general region?

 

[Martin]

@Martin have you vacated the general region?

yes, i'm now in the colonel barracks

 

[.zero]

Since its Veterans Day weekend I'd like to salute your service

 

[swag]

@Martin have you vacated the general region?

I vacated my bowels. Does that count?

 

[Martin]

Since its Veterans Day weekend I'd like to salute your service

i would prefer an encrypted carrier pigeon. can't be too careful these days