Military plans against irans 'nuclear' capabilities. (12 Viewers)

[Enron]

My history lessons at school consisted of - 'slavery....we fucked up' 'we took over india...we fucked up'...'we took over africa...we fucked up'...'we caused ww1....we fucked up'...'ww2? yeah that because we didnt sort out europe properly after ww1...we fucked up'. You get that everywhere you go here - museums, uni, school, public debates.

The history I saw being taught in the Smithsonian museum was 'Vietnam - AMERICA FUCK YEAH'...'korea...AMERICA FUCK YEAH'...'The genocide of the native americans? Didn't happen....', 'Slavery? that wasn't us, that was the - "first european settlers"...' - By that logic the first european settlers lived for over 200 years and americans are not related to them at all.

Which of the two sounds objective.

Whilst I agree that history is inevitably going to have subjection placed on it at all the points of its interpritation, I like to feel the history I have learnt is balanced, given that we get taught all the key theories surrounding an issue.

Well, you're also basing this idea of American History off a trip to the museum having never stepped foot in an actual American classroom. Talk about objectivity.

We've got Jared Diamond and Howard Zinn so suck on dat.

 

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[X Æ A-12]

My history lessons at school consisted of - 'slavery....we fucked up' 'we took over india...we fucked up'...'we took over africa...we fucked up'...'we caused ww1....we fucked up'...'ww2? yeah that because we didnt sort out europe properly after ww1...we fucked up'. You get that everywhere you go here - museums, uni, school, public debates.

The history I saw being taught in the Smithsonian museum was 'Vietnam - AMERICA FUCK YEAH'...'korea...AMERICA FUCK YEAH'...'The genocide of the native americans? Didn't happen....', 'Slavery? that wasn't us, that was the - "first european settlers"...' - By that logic the first european settlers lived for over 200 years and americans are not related to them at all.

Which of the two sounds objective.

Whilst I agree that history is inevitably going to have subjection placed on it at all the points of its interpritation, I like to feel the history I have learnt is balanced, given that we get taught all the key theories surrounding an issue.

I think that what you saw is exactly what you wanted to see Jasper.

And about schooling I cannot speak for the American education system as a hole but from my experience it's nothing like you seem to think it is.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Trips to museums and talking to people about there knowledge of history - i spoke to a lot o transfer students at my uni, i talk to you kyle who believes that droping a nuke on japan was the only option, i spoke to a lot when i was travelling, i have read some american history books and it is always a rose tinted view of events.

 

[X Æ A-12]

I didn't say it was the only option I said it was the better option.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Its worth noting, I meant I have spoken to Americans that complain about their education. Not my opinion of their education.

 

[IliveForJuve]

People can be wrong about their own country, too. I know lots of American kids who hate The U.S. but when I ask them why, they come up with retarded shit.

 

[Ford Prefect]

People can be wrong about their own country, too. I know lots of American kids who hate The U.S. but when I ask them why, they come up with retarded shit.

I hate the UK and I can systematically explain everything I find wrong with the place and why I can't wait to leave. 2 years left

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

But you hate nearly everything

 

[Ford Prefect]

But you hate nearly everything

A common misconception with me, I love most things and want to love everything. I despise cynicism/exploitation/stupidity/intolerance, if I spot any of those in something I will attack the flaw and point out why it's wrong - essential why I hate living here. If I love something I have little reason to talk about it, but If you go through my facebook most of it is recommendations, but no one interacts with them, it's when I bitch about stuff that people seem to engage

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Okay, I guess I maybe do notice your rants more.

 

[Zé Tahir]

It's true though, Jasp...you like to rant a lot.

 

[Enron]

Its worth noting, I meant I have spoken to Americans that complain about their education. Not my opinion of their education.

Yeah, our education system sucks, but so most secondary education systems these days.*


*With the exception of AP/IB programs and private high schools.

 

[JuveJay]

But you hate nearly everything

Liking things is so last year.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Okay, I guess I maybe do notice your rants more.

It's true though, Jasp...you like to rant a lot.

I thought I answered that in the post. I love ranting, I love pointing out whats wrong with things. I don't see the point in the talking about good things in as much detail - the thought proccess is 'oooh thats good....', when i see something thats wrong it goes - 'what the fuck? i need to read into this and work out whats going on'.

 

[Seven]

Trips to museums and talking to people about there knowledge of history - i spoke to a lot o transfer students at my uni, i talk to you kyle who believes that droping a nuke on japan was the only option, i spoke to a lot when i was travelling, i have read some american history books and it is always a rose tinted view of events.

Saying that the A-bomb was not an option at all is also a rose tinted view of events. And so is the view that war will ever truly be done by the rules. You're an intelligent fellow, but you have a lot of difficulty opening up your mind to other options and that's a shame. This thing you have going on against the UK is ridiculous to say the least. You'll see that there are lots of places in the world with their own troubles and as for you leaving.. You can leave right now if you want to. Because that's how it works: you're European, you can bloody go wherever you want. And you know why you have that possibility? Because you're from the UK.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Saying that the A-bomb was not an option at all is also a rose tinted view of events. And so is the view that war will ever truly be done by the rules. You're an intelligent fellow, but you have a lot of difficulty opening up your mind to other options and that's a shame. This thing you have going on against the UK is ridiculous to say the least. You'll see that there are lots of places in the world with their own troubles and as for you leaving.. You can leave right now if you want to. Because that's how it works: you're European, you can bloody go wherever you want. And you know why you have that possibility? Because you're from the UK.

I am not saying dropping the bomb was not an option, i am not arguing that wars will be fought by the rules. Those are your inferences from what I have said. My main hypothesis with anything is 'It is more complicated than that', I was offering the counter to two people that were saying it was the only option.

I can't leave the UK right now, I am in the middle of my MA and owe barclays £11 000 for the pleasure, I also don't yet have fluency in a second language - i am conversational in french/portuguese and am deciding which to go for as a second language. I am aware that countries have problems, but it doesn't change that i dont associate with the national mentality/identity here. When I was in china & vietnam i felt at home, when I am in france I feel at home, when I am here I feel uncomfortable, unwelcome and out of place. I am extremely grateful for all the opportunities I get living in this country, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't feel comfortable living here. The vast majority of my friends aren't Brits and I haven't dated/haven't been attracted to a Brit for over 2 years.

 

[Seven]

I can't leave the UK right now, I am in the middle of my MA and owe barclays £11 000 for the pleasure.

You mean you don't want to leave the UK right now.

Look. I am fairly sure I will not live all my life in Belgium. I am also fairly sure that if I move somewhere, it will be to a place where the air is clean and the weather is good. But I don't hate Belgium, simply for the fact that if I ever get in trouble somewhere else, I will come back here. If I get cancer? Yeah, I'd like to be treated in Belgium. But the weather here is a huge hurdle to me and I consider it very likely that I will ultimately move to a better climate.

 

[Ford Prefect]

You mean you don't want to leave the UK right now.

Look. I am fairly sure I will not live all my life in Belgium. I am also fairly sure that if I move somewhere, it will be to a place where the air is clean and the weather is good. But I don't hate Belgium, simply for the fact that if I ever get in trouble somewhere else, I will come back here. If I get cancer? Yeah, I'd like to be treated in Belgium. But the weather here is a huge hurdle to me and I consider it very likely that I will ultimately move to a better climate.

I mean if i leave the UK right now I owe barclays £11 000 and I don't have an MA, if i leave in august next year after i hand in my diss - I have an MA. If you can justify leaving and owing money for nothing then you are a stronger person than I. If I run out on the debt then my parents have to pay it, which I wont let happen.

 

[Hængebøffer]

My history lessons at school consisted of - 'slavery....we fucked up' 'we took over india...we fucked up'...'we took over africa...we fucked up'...'we caused ww1....we fucked up'...'ww2? yeah that because we didnt sort out europe properly after ww1...we fucked up'. You get that everywhere you go here - museums, uni, school, public debates.

The history I saw being taught in the Smithsonian museum was 'Vietnam - AMERICA FUCK YEAH'...'korea...AMERICA FUCK YEAH'...'The genocide of the native americans? Didn't happen....', 'Slavery? that wasn't us, that was the - "first european settlers"...' - By that logic the first european settlers lived for over 200 years and americans are not related to them at all.

Which of the two sounds objective.

Whilst I agree that history is inevitably going to have subjection placed on it at all the points of its interpritation, I like to feel the history I have learnt is balanced, given that we get taught all the key theories surrounding an issue.

I don't know if you studied history, but I haven't. I had history in Commercial School and as my teacher said:
"Remember, history is subjective. Unless there is a dictaphone or a camera recording everything going on, it's down to who writes the books".
But even at this point, people still perceive what they see/hear differently.
Historians have different views on who started The Cold War, so in school we tried to look at the facts and drew our own conclusion. He was a clever teacher

 

[Ford Prefect]

[/B]



I don't know if you studied history, but I haven't. I had history in Commercial School and as my teacher said:
"Remember, history is subjective. Unless there is a dictaphone or a camera recording everything going on, it's down to who writes the books".
But even at this point, people still perceive what they see/hear differently.
Historians have different views on who started The Cold War, so in school we tried to look at the facts and drew our own conclusion. He was a clever teacher

Thats still not right - Even if it is being recorded it is still subjective - Why was it recorded? How was it recorded (angle etc.)? and then it comes down to how the source is interpreted by you and others than see it.

Thats why I don't bother with the debate on subjection when it comes to history because the further you go into it the more pedantic it becomes.