Matthijs de Ligt (66 Viewers)

[DAiDEViL]

Why was De Ligt then our best defender last year and had such a big impact on the team? He was selected for the Bundesliga team of the season as well. He had so many big performances against the likes of PSG, Dortmund etc.

I definitely see him having a higher ceiling than Bremer for what he showed in the last half of the previous season. I get that Juve fans might not like him for the way he left, but the guy is very talented, there’s no doubt about it. Even if we put our personal likes/dislikes aside we should be able to acknowledge that.

De Ligt and Kim Min Jae has the potential to form the best CB for much of this decade imo.

Meh. I would, but I just like Bremer better as a defender, and not just because he is a Juve player.

Different opinions exist, we should be able to acknowledge that.

 

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[BayernFan]

Meh. I would, but I just like Bremer better as a defender, and not just because he is a Juve player.

Different opinions exist, we should be able to acknowledge that.

I’m having this impression Juve fans dislike/shit talk his abilities because he left and spoke about about a few things and not only from a footballing point of view, like there’s a certain bias.

I don’t doubt Bremer is a good defender, but for a team like ours where you sometimes have close to 70% possession during a game and you’re standing that far up on the opponents half, De Ligt seems to be the better choice. My impression is De Ligt thrive better in a side that dominates the ball. Lets not forget he was an Ajax talent. He also said the Bayern way of football suits him better.

 

[DAiDEViL]

I’m having this impression Juve fans dislike/shit talk his abilities because he left and spoke about about a few things and not only from a footballing point of view, like there’s a certain bias.

I don’t doubt Bremer is a good defender, but for a team like ours where you sometimes have close to 70% possession during a game and you’re standing that far up on the opponents half, De Ligt seems to be the better choice. My impression is De Ligt thrive better in a side that dominates the ball. Lets not forget he was an Ajax talent. He also said the Bayern way of football suits him better.

DeLigt was expensive as hell, I liked him, but he didn't really develop the way I hoped he would, and his stupid hand balls started to piss me off as well.

Imo it was a good deal for us, we got our money back and signed a defender who is at least as good as him (sceptical first, but seen both of them often enough now to make a judgement) and is also cheaper salary wise. I'm absolutely happy with that swap. If I wasn't - I'd say it.

Btw. Which player suits which system better is another matter altogether. DeLigt prolly suits you better, agreed.

Then again, he's currently on the bench cause you keep starting a brainless donkey over him, so who knows really

 

[BayernFan]

DeLigt was expensive as hell, I liked him, but he didn't really develop the way I hoped he would, and his stupid hand balls started to piss me off as well.

Imo it was a good deal for us, we got our money back and signed a defender who is at least as good as him (sceptical first, but seen both of them often enough now to make a judgement) and is also cheaper salary wise. I'm absolutely happy with that swap. If I wasn't - I'd say it.

Btw. Which player suits which system better is another matter altogether. DeLigt prolly suits you better, agreed.

Then again, he's currently on the bench cause you keep starting a brainless donkey over him, so who knows really

I'm sure he will be back as a starter soon enough, especially as our squad is rather thin this year. We sold Pavard on the last days of the transfer window, loaned Stanisic out and let Gravenberch go.

Had we gotten Palhinha as all looked like it wouldn't have been that big of a problem. And Stanisic should've stayed as well of course, it's retarded he was loaned out, when he's not even guaranteed to be a starter at Leverkusen. But we got rid of injury prone Hernandez and a Pavard that wanted out, so it wasn't all that bad.

Regarding Upamecano starting over De Ligt, I can see why a coach might like Upa. He's very talented and got all the abilities to be a great CB. But he's simply too error prone for my liking, you also just the feeling it's just a matter of time before he fucks up big time.

Thats also why I prefer De Ligt - Kim, but Upa has done well thus far. All of them will get plenty of game time as the season develops and with CL just around the corner. It's probably inevitable we'll run into some injuries as well, so that might change the dynamics.

 

[Alin]

To be honest many Juve fans were quite vocal about De Ligt being rather overrated and overpaid long before the transfer to Bayern was even a thing, especially towards the end of his last season(and probably even more so throughout his first season) there was almost an general consensus here that he can leave if there’s a chance for us to recoup the investment made on him… and yes he undeniably has a high ceiling but although the potential to be a great defender is there he has been far from the consistency and maturity needed to be one, basically stagnated on his growth while staying on superstar wages, so in hindsight judging by the fact he is now the first option off the bench at both Bayern and Netherlands does indicate that Juventus likely did the right thing in letting him go.


Probably another more simple reason for it would be all the compilations of his handballs and blunders throughout his time here that you can easily search and find, which ofc does not mean he will not get better in the future, but as things stand he has been far from warranting the hype or the transfer fees and wages thrown around him.

 

[Post Ironic]

Why was De Ligt then our best defender last year and had such a big impact on the team? He was selected for the Bundesliga team of the season as well. He had so many big performances against the likes of PSG, Dortmund etc.

I definitely see him having a higher ceiling than Bremer for what he showed in the last half of the previous season. I get that Juve fans might not like him for the way he left, but the guy is very talented, there’s no doubt about it. Even if we put our personal likes/dislikes aside we should be able to acknowledge that.

De Ligt and Kim Min Jae has the potential to form the best CB for much of this decade imo.

I didn’t say he wasn’t talented. You’re literally claiming he is without a doubt the better, higher ceiling defender. Talk about biased.

Why was Bremer Serie A defender of the year in 2021 while De Ligt was in the league too, nowhere near the top CBs.

Bremer > De Ligt defensively, including ceiling.

De Ligt > Bremer in ball-playing and pressing high

It’s really not that hard. Feel free to disagree, but stop claiming only biased fans could disagree with you. Lol

 

[BayernFan]

I didn’t say he wasn’t talented. You’re literally claiming he is without a doubt the better, higher ceiling defender. Talk about biased.

Why was Bremer Serie A defender of the year in 2021 while De Ligt was in the league too, nowhere near the top CBs.

Bremer > De Ligt defensively, including ceiling.

De Ligt > Bremer in ball-playing and pressing high

It’s really not that hard. Feel free to disagree, but stop claiming only biased fans could disagree with you. Lol

De Ligt played for a much inferior team in Juve compared to the current Bayern where it's not easy to shine as a defender. You guys have been in shambles for at least 3 years now, had he played for you between 14-18 I think it would've been a much different case in terms of how he developed.

And I don't think it's that outlandish to say De Ligt is the more talented player between the two. De Ligt has 40+ caps for the Netherlands when he just turned 24 last month. He has played for 3 European heavyweights already, been the Ajax captain only being 18 years old.

Meanwhile Bremer as a 26 year old has only managed 3 caps for Brazil and only transfered to a big club last year. Maybe he's just a late bloomer like Van Dijk, but speaking of what they've accomplished so far in their careers I don't think there's any doubt De Ligt is in front.

All this taken into consideration I don't see why it's wrong to claim De Ligt has the higher ceiling in terms of talent?

But again, maybe I'm wrong and the coming years will see Bremer surpass him. Only time can tell. We just bought a player in Kim who had the same career path as Bremer, a rather late bloomer who only 2-3 years ago played in the South Korean league and then in Turkey. Now he (Kim) is labelled as one of the best defenders in the world.

I guess we'll see

 

[Juve92]

It really isn’t. Seeing as they both played in Serie A together and Bremer was Serie A defender of the year.

Not bashing De Ligt here, by the way. I can see reasons for preferring each.

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Sure thing, cupcake. Lol

You would have had a different opinion if de Ligt was still here, we both know that

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Meh. I would, but I just like Bremer better as a defender, and not just because he is a Juve player.

Different opinions exist, we should be able to acknowledge that.

There you said it.

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I’m having this impression Juve fans dislike/shit talk his abilities because he left and spoke about about a few things and not only from a footballing point of view, like there’s a certain bias.

I don’t doubt Bremer is a good defender, but for a team like ours where you sometimes have close to 70% possession during a game and you’re standing that far up on the opponents half, De Ligt seems to be the better choice. My impression is De Ligt thrive better in a side that dominates the ball. Lets not forget he was an Ajax talent. He also said the Bayern way of football suits him better.

This.

 

[DAiDEViL]

You would have had a different opinion if de Ligt was still here, we both know that

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There you said it.

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This.

Speak for yourself Ronaldo fanboy.

 

[swag]

To be honest many Juve fans were quite vocal about De Ligt being rather overrated and overpaid long before the transfer to Bayern was even a thing, especially towards the end of his last season(and probably even more so throughout his first season) there was almost an general consensus here that he can leave if there’s a chance for us to recoup the investment made on him… and yes he undeniably has a high ceiling but although the potential to be a great defender is there he has been far from the consistency and maturity needed to be one, basically stagnated on his growth while staying on superstar wages, so in hindsight judging by the fact he is now the first option off the bench at both Bayern and Netherlands does indicate that Juventus likely did the right thing in letting him go.


Probably another more simple reason for it would be all the compilations of his handballs and blunders throughout his time here that you can easily search and find, which ofc does not mean he will not get better in the future, but as things stand he has been far from warranting the hype or the transfer fees and wages thrown around him.

We paid for him like he was Frank De Boer, but we got his brother Ronald.

 

[s4tch]

De Ligt played for a much inferior team in Juve compared to the current Bayern where it's not easy to shine as a defender.

sarri's juve with chiellini, ronaldo, dybala, higuain, pjanic & co wasn't a bad team

much inferior my ass

replacing chiellini though, it wasn't an easy task at all. who was the starter cb at bayern when de ligt arrived?

anyway, this debate doesn't really make sense. you'd prefer bremer to de ligt if he left bayern for real, talked shit about bayern and bremer arrived to replace him. we all have biases, so what.

 

[BayernFan]

sarri's juve with chiellini, ronaldo, dybala, higuain, pjanic & co wasn't a bad team

much inferior my ass

replacing chiellini though, it wasn't an easy task at all. who was the starter cb at bayern when de ligt arrived?

anyway, this debate doesn't really make sense. you'd prefer bremer to de ligt if he left bayern for real, talked shit about bayern and bremer arrived to replace him. we all have biases, so what.

Good point, I can't argue against that.

My point was more in the sense that Juve was starting a downward spiral from 2019 and forward, just as De Ligt joined.

About the last part, yes we all have biases, what you're saying there is what I expected and no worries about it as it's normal to dislike a player after he left on not so good terms.

Many Bayern fans seems to think Kane now is a superior striker to Lewandowski, although to me there's no doubt Lewandowski was the worlds best striker between 2019-22. Kane was very good at that time, but not Lewandowski good.

 

[Valerio.]

For that kind of money on a defender you’re looking for someone who’ll transform the defense now…. not in the distant future. The kind of impact Van Dijk had at Liverpool. Haaland impact not Hojlund

you mean when he was 28-29years old and spent 80% of his career in a minor team?
De Ligt playing for best teams in Europe since 18?
Wonder Ajax
Ronaldo's Juventus
and Bayern Munchen?

At the same age Van Dijk actually started making the difference where would De Ligt be?

Problem with De Ligt is that he uses his hands too much and caused us quite a few penalties.
If he didn't have that problem I'd pick him every day over Bremer.
Specially because Bremer shined in a 3man defence as a central CB which liked to attack the midfield a lot with and without ball.
While last year he spent playing in a 4man defence

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sarri's juve with chiellini, ronaldo, dybala, higuain, pjanic & co wasn't a bad team

much inferior my ass

replacing chiellini though, it wasn't an easy task at all. who was the starter cb at bayern when de ligt arrived?

anyway, this debate doesn't really make sense. you'd prefer bremer to de ligt if he left bayern for real, talked shit about bayern and bremer arrived to replace him. we all have biases, so what.

I mean Pavard,Upamecano and Hernandez which they paid 80m! for a mediocre CB!

 

[BayernFan]

you mean when he was 28-29years old and spent 80% of his career in a minor team?
De Ligt playing for best teams in Europe since 18?
Wonder Ajax
Ronaldo's Juventus
and Bayern Munchen?

At the same age Van Dijk actually started making the difference where would De Ligt be?

Problem with De Ligt is that he uses his hands too much and caused us quite a few penalties.
If he didn't have that problem I'd pick him every day over Bremer.
Specially because Bremer shined in a 3man defence as a central CB which liked to attack the midfield a lot with and without ball.
While last year he spent playing in a 4man defence

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I mean Pavard,Upamecano and Hernandez which they paid 80m! for a mediocre CB!

One of Brazzo’s “genius” ideas. Worst part of it is that he’s hardly even a real CB. And I haven’t even mentioned his injuries as of yet.

 

[Xperd]

Nah. Bremer is a better defender at the defending part. Defensively it’s not close. But he’s nowhere near the ball-playing CB De Ligt is/can be. So perhaps as a complete package De Ligt can surpass him, but on defending alone I don’t think he will ever match Bremer.

Hard to disagree here.

Alternatively, if we're speaking of coaches, in terms of pure coaching ability, Allegro is a world class manager. Probably the best.

I mean if you leave training, style of football, man management, tactics aside, Mister has that raw coaching ability that's unmatched!

In this day and age where today's football has become a junky's paradise, his clean, healthy style of football comes as a breath of fresh air.

Shame that the players that have left and that are still playing under him(especially Vlahovic) are unable to interpret this pure form of football. Our Mister truly is one of a kind

 

[Post Ironic]

You would have had a different opinion if de Ligt was still here, we both know that

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There you said it.

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This.

 

[Hist]

you mean when he was 28-29years old and spent 80% of his career in a minor team?
De Ligt playing for best teams in Europe since 18?
Wonder Ajax
Ronaldo's Juventus
and Bayern Munchen?

At the same age Van Dijk actually started making the difference where would De Ligt be?

Problem with De Ligt is that he uses his hands too much and caused us quite a few penalties.
If he didn't have that problem I'd pick him every day over Bremer.
Specially because Bremer shined in a 3man defence as a central CB which liked to attack the midfield a lot with and without ball.
While last year he spent playing in a 4man defence

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Liverpool didn’t pay that kind of money for a young Van Dijk. At that age he’d have cost a fraction of what was paid for him. Thats the point. You pay record price you should expect immediate world class performances and that’s exactly what Van Dijk did and De Ligt did not.

De Ligt, like other players from that Ajax team, got immensely hyped. That’s why him and Donny got over valued (and Tici ofc). He is yet to live up to his promise since he left Ajax. Didn’t do it at Juve and is not doing it at Bayern thus far.

Good thing we recovered our money for him and it’s Bayerns turn to get a proper ROI from him. He still has time to prove his worth ofc he is only 24

 

[Juve92]

Why are you facepalming you clown?

 

[Ronn]

I’m having this impression Juve fans dislike/shit talk his abilities because he left and spoke about about a few things and not only from a footballing point of view, like there’s a certain bias.

I don’t doubt Bremer is a good defender, but for a team like ours where you sometimes have close to 70% possession during a game and you’re standing that far up on the opponents half, De Ligt seems to be the better choice. My impression is De Ligt thrive better in a side that dominates the ball. Lets not forget he was an Ajax talent. He also said the Bayern way of football suits him better.

For me personally is that he didn’t live up to that hype. He was good no doubt, but did not see develop to a monster that his early career promised.
The other stuff are just extra. Tbh I hate how Juve operated in past 5 years so much that I can hardly dislike former players who talk shit about that mess.

 

[Valerio.]

The only dislike I have for the boy is the way he left.
Chelsea was paying more but he wanted to go Bayern which lowballed us. Hateful