Keeping him and chies and at least try them is anobrainer for MOtta. I would be very dissapointed on boith him and giuntoli if even one of this dudes leave
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Matías Soulé (35 Viewers)
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I can agree that those teams you listed won’t offer that much, but i doubt we won’t at least consider offers that are closer to the €30M region too, especially if it’s upfront and not via loan+obligation formula, also there might very well be suitors from abroad that have the necessary resources.
I’d say all scenarios are still open.
I’d say all scenarios are still open.
I wasn’t suggesting he was to be replaced by any player — just that EPL clubs are at liberty to/are able to spend much more than other leagues.
Besides Kulusevski was more than the figures you mentioned: “€35m payable in five financial years. The purchase value may increase of maximum € 9 million on achieving given conditions in the course of the durations of the contract.”
+ he was the Young Player of the season 19/20, which Soulé hasn’t won…
Besides Kulusevski was more than the figures you mentioned: “€35m payable in five financial years. The purchase value may increase of maximum € 9 million on achieving given conditions in the course of the durations of the contract.”
+ he was the Young Player of the season 19/20, which Soulé hasn’t won…
I think he's gone too.
And while I'd agree with the sentiment that we should keep him and give him a shot, the financial situation means that we have to sell something to buy what we want and if we play Motta's system, Soule is the most expendable because we have players who play that position either on our squad now or targeted that can replace his performance at a slightly lower value for a significantly cheaper price.
If we can sell Soule for the reported 40m and then spend 12m to buy Zhergova (even if his quality is 3/4 of Soule for arguments sake) and end up with 28m surplus to fill other positions then I think we make the move. If we had the financial power and flexibility to keep Soule and strengthen other positions in this market we would but we're not at that point. We are still undoing the Paratici spending spree and how it overwhelmed our finances. We're still unwinding the insane wage bill (Woj is one of the last ones imo) and that should provide further financial flexibility.
This was always going to be one stage of the Next Gen project. Producing talents that other teams will want to buy and using those talents to fund our own transfers. Sometimes, you'll need to sell a talent because his value as a player is useful to you but his value as a financial tool to fund other spending is more useful to you. I think Soule is one of the first of these. Yildiz is the opposite end of that where his value and potential to you is worth more than what a club might offer for him. Huijsen is another one where that decision needs to be made when the offers come. Is his value as incoming funds worth more (when taking into account depth on your team and on the market at his position) than his value on the field for you now and in the 3-4 year future.
This is what is most frustrating about the Paratici era. It felt like he never had that conversation internally. We made moves on a 1 year basis, maybe 2 years, and had to deal with the consequences later and seemed to always be caught off guard when the future arrived. It's like he never thought 2 years ahead and so when the fruits of his moves came about (spoiled fruit or ripe) he was shocked at what he had on his table. Fucking moron.
And while I'd agree with the sentiment that we should keep him and give him a shot, the financial situation means that we have to sell something to buy what we want and if we play Motta's system, Soule is the most expendable because we have players who play that position either on our squad now or targeted that can replace his performance at a slightly lower value for a significantly cheaper price.
If we can sell Soule for the reported 40m and then spend 12m to buy Zhergova (even if his quality is 3/4 of Soule for arguments sake) and end up with 28m surplus to fill other positions then I think we make the move. If we had the financial power and flexibility to keep Soule and strengthen other positions in this market we would but we're not at that point. We are still undoing the Paratici spending spree and how it overwhelmed our finances. We're still unwinding the insane wage bill (Woj is one of the last ones imo) and that should provide further financial flexibility.
This was always going to be one stage of the Next Gen project. Producing talents that other teams will want to buy and using those talents to fund our own transfers. Sometimes, you'll need to sell a talent because his value as a player is useful to you but his value as a financial tool to fund other spending is more useful to you. I think Soule is one of the first of these. Yildiz is the opposite end of that where his value and potential to you is worth more than what a club might offer for him. Huijsen is another one where that decision needs to be made when the offers come. Is his value as incoming funds worth more (when taking into account depth on your team and on the market at his position) than his value on the field for you now and in the 3-4 year future.
This is what is most frustrating about the Paratici era. It felt like he never had that conversation internally. We made moves on a 1 year basis, maybe 2 years, and had to deal with the consequences later and seemed to always be caught off guard when the future arrived. It's like he never thought 2 years ahead and so when the fruits of his moves came about (spoiled fruit or ripe) he was shocked at what he had on his table. Fucking moron.
that's a good point
but - regardless of the soulé-zhegorova rumors - there's a reason to sell a current asset and buy a new player. let's not forget that juventus has a huge debt, around 800m, almost as much as inda, plus an ffp agreement to respect, plus a season without european competition which means an other +100m loss. sales will - and in all honesty, should - happen. we need to consider finances, that's the reality of the club. and sales show up instantly in the balance sheet, while costs are spread over the length of the contract. not saying these players are worth this money, just theoretically speaking: if on the 1st of july (so the beginning of the next financial year) you sell soulé for 40m and on the same day buy zhegrova for 40m on a 5-year contract, then it's a 40m revenue (and since soulé is homegrown, a plusvalenza of close to 40m too) and only a cost of 8m + agent fees for the next financial year. the rest of the costs show up later.
but - regardless of the soulé-zhegorova rumors - there's a reason to sell a current asset and buy a new player. let's not forget that juventus has a huge debt, around 800m, almost as much as inda, plus an ffp agreement to respect, plus a season without european competition which means an other +100m loss. sales will - and in all honesty, should - happen. we need to consider finances, that's the reality of the club. and sales show up instantly in the balance sheet, while costs are spread over the length of the contract. not saying these players are worth this money, just theoretically speaking: if on the 1st of july (so the beginning of the next financial year) you sell soulé for 40m and on the same day buy zhegrova for 40m on a 5-year contract, then it's a 40m revenue (and since soulé is homegrown, a plusvalenza of close to 40m too) and only a cost of 8m + agent fees for the next financial year. the rest of the costs show up later.
i don't think that's the case. there are many articles about the topic, anyone who's at least a bit open to management and finances will be able to understand it with a minimal amount of research. finances and financial report related matters have been part of the discussion here for years, and if someone wouldn't fully understand a certain case, there are multiple members here who can give some guidance
i'd have to check but iirc with ronaldo we were at almost 400m yearly cost for the whole squad (gross wages and amortization included), and now we're at around 220-230m. as for player wages only, fuck knows... i'd say from ~200m we should be down to ~120m, i'd really have to check. ronaldo alone cost us a fortune, 80-something millions per season, with around 53-55m in wages lol. with sandro and potentially tek leaving we should be closer to 100m
This is the answer and I think it will slowly become the norm for us as Next Gen establishes its reputation further as a regular producer of talent. Right now, Next Gen is still so new to us as an organization, I think they're kind of caught off guard at how successful it appears to have become already.
I get the logic of doing it but it is this short term thinking that Tici seemed obsessed with that has been a big issue for us long term.
If we can ride out not making a plusvalenza it can benefit us more financially to keep him. We need a 5 year plan not a 1 year plan.
Take Soule vs Zhergrova and use the example of both being 40m players.
If we buy Zhergrova at 40m for 5 years we take a hit of 8m per year to our accounts. We also will be paying him higher wages than Soule, plus an agent fee to sign him. In 5 years he will be 30 which would limit his resale.
If we keep Soule his amortisation is basically nothing for the rest of his career here. The 40m gain made in selling him is effectively cancelled out over 5 years by keeping him in comparison to Zhergrova. His wages are low and probably would still be even after a renewal. Agent fees also lower for a renewal. In 5 years he is still only 26 and arguably not even hit his peak for resale.
I get that we need capital gains for FFP but selling low cost guys on an upward trajectory of their career is maybe not the most sensible move.
If we can ride out not making a plusvalenza it can benefit us more financially to keep him. We need a 5 year plan not a 1 year plan.
Take Soule vs Zhergrova and use the example of both being 40m players.
If we buy Zhergrova at 40m for 5 years we take a hit of 8m per year to our accounts. We also will be paying him higher wages than Soule, plus an agent fee to sign him. In 5 years he will be 30 which would limit his resale.
If we keep Soule his amortisation is basically nothing for the rest of his career here. The 40m gain made in selling him is effectively cancelled out over 5 years by keeping him in comparison to Zhergrova. His wages are low and probably would still be even after a renewal. Agent fees also lower for a renewal. In 5 years he is still only 26 and arguably not even hit his peak for resale.
I get that we need capital gains for FFP but selling low cost guys on an upward trajectory of their career is maybe not the most sensible move.