Massimiliano Allegri (203 Viewers)

[PhRoZeN]

Well, everything else has been tried.

The reason why I never 'bought' the "Sarri and Pirlo were fired after winning trophies" reason to fire Allegri is because ALLEGRI was fired after a really good and dominant season domestically, after 5 years of dominance and great football actually.

Now, in a vacuum, Allegri deserves to get sacked today. No questions asked. But it doesn't work in a vacuum. There's the question of the replacement, of the financial part of it and to me the most importantly of finally persevering through something.

As I said in the beginning everything else has been tried. Fired 3 coaches who won trophies in a row, signed big and small players, changed management, spent big and small on wages, changed the medical staff more than once etc. Literally the only thing that wasn't tried was sending a message to the players and staying put with the coach. You can either get in line or gtfo.

And I am not saying you need Mbappe and Haaland to get better results, to beat Samp etc. But you also don't need the mix of SAF, Pep and Mourinho to motivate you, to be upset after Salernitana and show up in a decisive UCL game, to take a look in the mirror and do the bare minimum of your job on the pitch, to run back when Benfica is on a counter etc.

I agree that when a coach loses the locker room it is time to go. But a winning, healthy locker room full of champions. Not one consisting mostly of players who wouldn't sniff the worst of the 9 Scudetti in a row teams or players who are leaving at the end of this season. The only players you can say with (almost) certainty will be here next season are the GKs, Danilo, Bonucci, Bremer, Gatti, Locatelli, Pogba, Miretti, Chiesa, Kostić and Vlahović. Some are expiring, some are not good enough, some will be forced out, some are on loans etc. I am not sure how many of those would be in the 'lost them' part of the locker room, if that's even true.

Again, not to make it like the players are all at fault and Max is doing great, but we once again have the situation where the coach deserves looking at and the players deserve looking at. We went the coach route 3 times now, in every one of the previous instances there was talk of them losing the locker room. Maybe it's time we take the players route for once and let them lose themselves for a bit.

I understand that firing coaches isn't the solution, and its not as simple as it looks, and that it kills stability, makes the lazy players happy.

However, Allegri owns this, if his players are lazy and unmotivated, then its his job to bench them, discipline them, motivate them, do whatever it takes. Conte would turn Di Shitlio into Calabria. Maybe it's not all motivation, maybe its getting through to them as friends and showing them belief like Pioli. I dont know but its his job.. Calabria was shit, as were quite a few of Milan and Inter's players, but confidence and motivation does wonder. Allegri doesnt instill confidence into the players, neither does he instil confidence or concern with his pre/post match comments to the fans.


Now I know the flip side of the coin winning breeds winning, I also know it takes some locker room leaders to help the coach, but the change starts from the coach. That's what they are employed for, he needs to sit in a dark room and brainstorm, because time is running out. Thing is, i'm pretty sure his second half of the season results are better than first half, but his dug himself a hole. All by saving energy, the energy that will cost us R16 in CL. Not all fans are fickle, but there is no simple solution here other than bringing in a coach and a backroom staff who can go all military. Allegri is stubborn, he won't change, and even you know that.

 

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[lgorTudor]

Start from scrath like roma and milan maybe the only answer:

- 1st jj need strong persona like mourinho or maldini

I want Tuchel and I want him to be an absolute cunt with management and players

This is the medicine

'Hey unibrow and girlhair, am I gonna get an actual fitness team any time soon?"
"Hey manboobene, I had better players at FSV Mainz'

-has locks changed and lolzillians don't get the new keys-

dew eet

 

[JuveJay]

I don't believe anything from these shit-stirrers tbh. But it's not implausible.

 

[IlCapitano]

I understand that firing coaches isn't the solution, and its not as simple as it looks, and that it kills stability, makes the lazy players happy.

However, Allegri owns this, if his players are lazy and unmotivated, then its his job to bench them, discipline them, motivate them, do whatever it takes. Conte would Di Shitlio into Calabria. Calabria was shit, as were quite a few of Milan and Inter's players, but confidence and motivation does wonder. Allegri doesnt instill confidence into the players, neither does he instil confidence or concern with his pre/post match comments to the fans. He is all about saving energy, not all fans are fickle, but there is no simple solution here other than bringing in a coach and a backroom staff who can go all military. Allegri is stubborn, he wont change, and even you know that.

To me that's all circumstantial. There are plenty of other players who were bad elsewhere and turned out great here with Max. Plenty of current and ex players at the time praised him for his motivating and man management skills. Plenty said they've never had to work as hard as under him.

Now he apparently ruins every player, cannot motivate and his trainings are shit.

Idk man, maybe true, maybe not, probably somewhere in the middle. A big part of it IMO is when you're winning everything seems great, when you're not everything is annoying you and everyone looks for a culprit. That's why I don't like these comparisons in general - this guy doing great there, poorly here, better elsewhere, this must be the reason etc.

That's why I prefer to look at the current situation and how can it be solved.

Do you need a WC team to beat Samp and Salernitana easily? Ofc not.

Do you need a military man to make you do the basics of your job, to be angry and take some pride in someone kicking your ass? Ofc not

Or do you need a life coach to pamper you and tell you you're the best all the time to be happy? Ofc not

Allegri must be able to do better with what he has currently, but I am sick and tired of these players just giving up when it gets tough. This is a vicious circle that keeps repeating for years now, under 3 different coaches. When do we stop giving them benefit of the doubt? To me Allegri represents Juventus for what it stands for better than any of them, why do they have to be the victims always?

 

[juve123]

Juventus management will give Allegri time to work peacefully without any distraction or pressure until the World Cup break. If, by that date, the problems are not solved, Juventus could take drastic decisions. - La Stampa

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Juventus management will give Allegri time to work peacefully without any distraction or pressure until the World Cup break. If, by that date, the problems are not solved, Juventus could take drastic decisions. - La Stampa

By then we'll be out the CL probably not even europa league qualification and dropped more points in the league. Too fucking late. Meanwhile the management have said fuck all about the VAR debacle, EVERYONE MUST GO!

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Probably invited strippers to the locker room

 

[Xperd]

Juventus management will give Allegri time to work peacefully without any distraction or pressure until the World Cup break. If, by that date, the problems are not solved, Juventus could take drastic decisions. - La Stampa

United model right there. Alas we finally achieved our goal

 

[s4tch]

Juventus management will give Allegri time to work peacefully without any distraction or pressure until the World Cup break. If, by that date, the problems are not solved, Juventus could take drastic decisions. - La Stampa

stampa is co-owned by agnelli/elkann, but they regularly make shit up. i wonder whether it's a legit info or some bs

either way, our season is all but finished before we entered october. i have no idea what's going on at the club and especially in the locker, but if the coach is not backed by the players then there's no point in keeping the status quo as it is. i can't remember a situation where a coach could turn it around. many players are simply dumb people, coaches are grown-ups who rarely change, so more time spent together usually makes things worse. we'll see.

 

[PhRoZeN]

To me that's all circumstantial. There are plenty of other players who were bad elsewhere and turned out great here with Max. Plenty of current and ex players at the time praised him for his motivating and man management skills. Plenty said they've never had to work as hard as under him.

Now he apparently ruins every player, cannot motivate and his trainings are shit.

Idk man, maybe true, maybe not, probably somewhere in the middle. A big part of it IMO is when you're winning everything seems great, when you're not everything is annoying you and everyone looks for a culprit. That's why I don't like these comparisons in general - this guy doing great there, poorly here, better elsewhere, this must be the reason etc.

That's why I prefer to look at the current situation and how can it be solved.

Do you need a WC team to beat Samp and Salernitana easily? Ofc not.

Do you need a military man to make you do the basics of your job, to be angry and take some pride in someone kicking your ass? Ofc not

Or do you need a life coach to pamper you and tell you you're the best all the time to be happy? Ofc not

Allegri must be able to do better with what he has currently, but I am sick and tired of these players just giving up when it gets tough. This is a vicious circle that keeps repeating for years now, under 3 different coaches. When do we stop giving them benefit of the doubt? To me Allegri represents Juventus for what it stands for better than any of them, why do they have to be the victims always?

Theres no hiding the players have contributed to this. I remember Sarri's last words "You send me away, but this team is untrainable."

I think Allegri had it easy with leaders around him, but what do we do? Stick with Allegri and hope the players will start listening? Sell every player and buy new players? It can't happen, there is no solution. Backroom staff is a priority, i'm sure we both agree on that. But who decides the backroom staff? Allegri. I just think he isnt the same Allegri that once was, as someone said before, it might be he that he's still in vacation mode. His relaxed persona and not owning up to the fact we're in a mess is what's really pissed the fans off. It's hard to get behind a manager who is so nonchalant. Because a nonchalant and passive manager is exactly what lazy players look for.

You only have to look at what made us get rid of him in the past to think, nothings really changed. He is the same Allegri we gave up on when he was sacked. It was a big mistake to bring him back, it looked like the best choice, but as Xperd has said may times, we are a united, we can sack coaches every day and still stay the same. Truly mediocre, a banter club. Irony is, I think united have made the best choice right now by bringing ETH. Atleast from a backroom staff point of view, they'll never be complaints. We can't even fix that.

 

[Akshen]

 

[Xperd]

Teams like Liverpool, United, Inter, Milan have all gone through this phase where they fire and hire coaches until one finally sticks out. Heck we went through this phase ourselves post calciopoli.

Ranieri, Ferrara, Zaccheroni, Del Neri to finally Conte who brought us to the top. Inter hired dozens of coaches until they found a period of stability with Conte. Milan with Pioli, Pool with Klopp etc

Allegri in the last 15-16 months has literally shown nothing to believe he's going to guide us back to the top. By each passing day, we look like a worse version of ourselves despite signing 7-8 new players and improving the squad.

So you can't go around saying 'hey you know what, our problems run deeper than the coach so let's just stick with Allegri despite him directly hampering on the pitch results for the team!'

That's just irresponsible imo. He's given enough time and resources compared to the rest of the league.

If he's brought in to be the solution, I'm afraid it isn't working out. All he's done in the past year or so is defend his 'style' of football despite constantly getting embarrassed and humiliated by lesser teams, throw young players under the bus, reminisce about past results and having a defeatist attitude.

This is not what a solution looks like. This is a sign of a coach who is just as equally responsible for the toxic environment at the club as much as the upper management is. Well they hired him afterall so it all makes sense.

 

[Bjerknes]

SOLUTION

When folks say don’t blame Allegri, blame management… they aren’t making sense either. Clearly Allegri = management at this point, and we gave him way too much power. We gave someone who hates modern football the keys to the castle, and now we suffer the consequences for a very long time most likely.

 

[U Picciriddu]

To me that's all circumstantial. There are plenty of other players who were bad elsewhere and turned out great here with Max. Plenty of current and ex players at the time praised him for his motivating and man management skills. Plenty said they've never had to work as hard as under him.

Now he apparently ruins every player, cannot motivate and his trainings are shit.

Idk man, maybe true, maybe not, probably somewhere in the middle. A big part of it IMO is when you're winning everything seems great, when you're not everything is annoying you and everyone looks for a culprit. That's why I don't like these comparisons in general - this guy doing great there, poorly here, better elsewhere, this must be the reason etc.

That's why I prefer to look at the current situation and how can it be solved.

Do you need a WC team to beat Samp and Salernitana easily? Ofc not.

Do you need a military man to make you do the basics of your job, to be angry and take some pride in someone kicking your ass? Ofc not

Or do you need a life coach to pamper you and tell you you're the best all the time to be happy? Ofc not

Allegri must be able to do better with what he has currently, but I am sick and tired of these players just giving up when it gets tough. This is a vicious circle that keeps repeating for years now, under 3 different coaches. When do we stop giving them benefit of the doubt? To me Allegri represents Juventus for what it stands for better than any of them, why do they have to be the victims always?

But what do we need in order to keep our players fit and why is this always a problem with Allegri

I mean how many players were not fit against Ajax? Something is very wrong regarding fitness

 

[Bianconero81]

Juve 123 and his posse of "les miserables" probably cumming buckets now that their "hero" is safe until December at least.

 

[U Picciriddu]

Teams like Liverpool, United, Inter, Milan have all gone through this phase where they fire and hire coaches until one finally sticks out. Heck we went through this phase ourselves post calciopoli.

Ranieri, Ferrara, Zaccheroni, Del Neri to finally Conte who brought us to the top. Inter hired dozens of coaches until they found a period of stability with Conte. Milan with Pioli, Pool with Klopp etc

Allegri in the last 15-16 months has literally shown nothing to believe he's going to guide us back to the top. By each passing day, we look like a worse version of ourselves despite signing 7-8 new players and improving the squad.

So you can't go around saying 'hey you know what, our problems run deeper than the coach so let's just stick with Allegri despite him directly hampering on the pitch results for the team!'

That's just irresponsible imo. He's given enough time and resources compared to the rest of the league.

If he's brought in to be the solution, I'm afraid it isn't working out. All he's done in the past year or so is defend his 'style' of football despite constantly getting embarrassed and humiliated by lesser teams, throw young players under the bus, reminisce about past results and having a defeatist attitude.

This is not what a solution looks like. This is a sign of a coach who is just as equally responsible for the toxic environment at the club as much as the upper management is. Well they hired him afterall so it all makes sense.

All true but we aren’t in a position to pay those 9m per year if we fire him.

But if he continues like this, missing out in the CL might become more costly. And it’s a realistic scenario

 

[BIG DADDY!!!]

I would absolutely love a coach to walk in here like Mourinho did at his first stint at Chelsea.

He had an aura of invincibility, so sure of himself and called out the press and opposing coaches and demanded respect.

Every player fed off this confidence and played their hearts out for him with a siege mentality.

Unfortunately those types of managers eventually drain the players of everything they have then move on leaving said team with another inevitable rebuild.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Can't afford to fire him now? But we'll end up firing him after we lose CL K.O money and potentially next years CL money if we miss the top 4

We're fucked lol

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I would absolutely love a coach to walk in here like Mourinho did at his first stint at Chelsea.

He had an aura of invincibility, so sure of himself and called out the press and opposing coaches and demanded respect.

Every player fed off this confidence and played their hearts out for him with a siege mentality.

Unfortunately those types of managers eventually drain the players of everything they have then move on leaving said team with another inevitable rebuild.

I just want to see us win 1 fucking CL before the next rebuild

Unlike a lot of other clubs over the last 20 years our peak is never good enough to win the god damn final

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Theres no hiding the players have contributed to this. I remember Sarri's last words "You send me away, but this team is untrainable."

I think Allegri had it easy with leaders around him, but what do we do? Stick with Allegri and hope the players will start listening? Sell every player and buy new players? It can't happen, there is no solution. Backroom staff is a priority, i'm sure we both agree on that. But who decides the backroom staff? Allegri. I just think he isnt the same Allegri that once was, as someone said before, it might be he that he's still in vacation mode. His relaxed persona and not owning up to the fact we're in a mess is what's really pissed the fans off. It's hard to get behind a manager who is so nonchalant. Because a nonchalant and passive manager is exactly what lazy players look for.

You only have to look at what made us get rid of him in the past to think, nothings really changed. He is the same Allegri we gave up on when he was sacked. It was a big mistake to bring him back, it looked like the best choice, but as Xperd has said may times, we are a united, we can sack coaches every day and still stay the same. Truly mediocre, a banter club. Irony is, I think united have made the best choice right now by bringing ETH. Atleast from a backroom staff point of view, they'll never be complaints. We can't even fix that.

But allegri got the players he wanted! Unlike sarri and pirlo this excuse that the players are failing only goes so far, allegri is the one failing the players if anything

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But what do we need in order to keep our players fit and why is this always a problem with Allegri

I mean how many players were not fit against Ajax? Something is very wrong regarding fitness

It's clear the players do nothing in training, just pose for the cameras with the winning team, but realistically they do nothing and that's down to allegri and his coaching team. Allegri is earning 9 mill to be one big dosser!

 

[LiquidPLP]

Teams like Liverpool, United, Inter, Milan have all gone through this phase where they fire and hire coaches until one finally sticks out. Heck we went through this phase ourselves post calciopoli.

Ranieri, Ferrara, Zaccheroni, Del Neri to finally Conte who brought us to the top. Inter hired dozens of coaches until they found a period of stability with Conte. Milan with Pioli, Pool with Klopp etc

Allegri in the last 15-16 months has literally shown nothing to believe he's going to guide us back to the top. By each passing day, we look like a worse version of ourselves despite signing 7-8 new players and improving the squad.

So you can't go around saying 'hey you know what, our problems run deeper than the coach so let's just stick with Allegri despite him directly hampering on the pitch results for the team!'

That's just irresponsible imo. He's given enough time and resources compared to the rest of the league.

If he's brought in to be the solution, I'm afraid it isn't working out. All he's done in the past year or so is defend his 'style' of football despite constantly getting embarrassed and humiliated by lesser teams, throw young players under the bus, reminisce about past results and having a defeatist attitude.

This is not what a solution looks like. This is a sign of a coach who is just as equally responsible for the toxic environment at the club as much as the upper management is. Well they hired him afterall so it all makes sense.

Yep. I've said this many times already: we need a coach who will see solutions, not one to see only problems.

 

[zizinho]

But allegri got the players he wanted! Unlike sarri and pirlo this excuse that the players are failing only goes so far, allegri is the one failing the players if anything!

So Paratici failed Sarri and Pirlo?