Massimiliano Allegri (235 Viewers)

[campionesidd]

The only point of concern is we have scored less goals. I think inter have scored 51 goals Milan 46 goals Atlanta 44 goals and juve 34 goals.

That is most certainly a concern, but from this post, it is clear that chance creation is not our weak point, it is converting those chances.
One thing that Allegri can do to fix this is try to make Dybala receive the ball higher and higher up the pitch, because he is far more clinical than those bricks Morata and Kean.

 

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[IlCapitano]

Many things in this post that are simply not true. Genoa for example literally had zero shots the whole game.

Oh great, I mixed Genoa and Cagliari, you got me there, all is fine now.

You’re complaining way to much, he’s doing a okay job for the squad he has at his disposal.

Chiesa is a horrible miss and was our only functioning winger. Morata just came off a horrible form and Dybala had the minor injuries.

The Napoli game was horrible, we kept Inter at distance for 120 minutes and they were lucky with the referee and Sandro’s mistake, let’s not forget they had a full squad without any injuries and we were playing with a B team.

This will be another season with ups and downs but we are within reach of top 4 and it’s likely they well reach that, besides that I see us beating Villarreal.

Max isn’t perfect and I criticise him when it’s deserved but yesterday was a good win. I don’t understand the negativity.

Exactly, okay is good enough for the squad because they're bad. Okay is not good enough for Max who is a WC coach.

Missing Chiesa has nothing to do with the 442 hybrid. He was limiting Chiesa in that too. That's my entire point - team is not good, team is unbalanced, we're missing Chiesa and Ronaldo and you can still honestly say Allegri is doing some dumb unnecessary shit. That is my frustration.

Max himself said yesterday was not a good game and he was visibly angry. But sure I guess.

The first 11 Serie A games of this season

The previous 11 Serie A games of this season

And yes I know that we've played more games than some teams below us in the second table.

I didn't give a crap about xG when people used it to bash Allegri 3 years ago and I certainly don't care about it now. I know what I'm watching.

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You have to be realistic. Can’t expect great football with this squad, and we are in a transitional period where we are recovering from COVID, Ronaldo’s wages, Tici etc.

And what’s plan b for the anti-Allegri’s? Sacking him, getting a new manager for the 4th consecutive year and continuing paying his salary for the coming years?

I miss some appreciation aswel guys. He said no to Real Madrid for us knowing the problems this clubs has. Seems like many here just can’t respect people who are loyal to us, same problem with Dybala.

Can we please stop with this bullshit?

At least when you're talking about me and non-trolling members? Nobody expects great football, nobody is anti-Allegri, nobody wants him gone. I have been his biggest defender first time around, still am. Wouldn't swap him for Pep and Klopp in tandem if offered.

But criticism of him so far is absolutely deserved this year.

 

[Jäger]

Because there have not been improvements from Max. He is still doing the same thing he did earlier in the season despite us not improving much in terms of chances created, less chanced conceded etc. The only difference between earlier in the season and now is easier schedule and Woj being competent.

Our run of 1-0 victories early was much better and much more sustainable than what we see now.

Let's eliminate the first 3 games because those are on individual mistakes - we have played 26 games in all competitions after that.

First 13 games 9W 2D 2L - GD 21 13 + 8 (Ending with a win against Fiorentina on Nov 6th, international break after that)
Last 13 games 8W 2D 3L - GD 19 13 +6 (First game vs Lazio, Nov 20th, ending last night)

We do not create more chances than early in the season, despite having a much easier schedule last 13 games than first 13 games. We concede the same amount, we score less, we still play the same formation that limits so many players etc etc.

Once again, Idc about playing style. I was more confident during our 1-0 winning run than now because we were better, not prettier.

We had a nice run in the first half of season, then slaps against Verona and Sassuolo happened. We got our slaps out early vs Chelsea, Atalanta and I already said it is a positive we are getting results vs little teams now which we were not earlier, but I do not know how sustainable it is to scrape by and give up so much control all the time to the opposition. I don't see the difference between last night or Salernitana or Genoa games which we won all 3 or games vs Sassuolo, Verona for example which we didn't win. The difference is Salernitana and Genoa missed clear sitters while those other two didn't. I don't see major improvement in play, defense, stability, organization, control etc.

And let me be clear, I do not blame just Max for this, he has his hands tied for a lot of reasons, but one huge tie is his own doing - lack of flexibility and changes. That is my biggest frustration because the reason I fell in love with Max's abilities was his intelligence and flexibility during his first stint and doing the simple things.

Start with 352, works then doesn't, move to 4312 and mix occasionally with 352, works again. 4312 does not work next season, go back to 352, mix with 433, works again. Start with 433 again, does not work, go to 4231, works again. Start with 4231, does not work, go back to 433, works again.

Last night for example, perfect opportunity to try 4312 and put players in their natural positions, but no let's intentionally eliminate one side of the pitch completely. Worked against Udinese, didn't work against Inter, guess why? We looked much better in 442 when Berna was playing LW, we went away from that, why?

That is my whole point, I am used to Max being smart and draining every ounce of his team, getting more from less etc.

I don't hate him, in fact I would give him a 10 year extension right now, I don't want another coach coaching us as long as he is active and alive and healthy. But please feel free to continue with your sarcasm and your generalizations.

Don't waste your time. These throaters are so blinded by their obsession with this dude it's actually comical, especially when you compare the stats with his predecessors, of whom they slated so much:
Sarri as of Matchday 19 across all comps: 20w 4d 2L
Pirlo as of Matchday 19 across all comps: 17w 6d 3L
Allegri as of Matchday 19 across all comps: 15w 4d 7L

We ended 2021 with at least ten defeats, the highest since 2010. 7 of the 10 all happened under Allegri. We also conceded 42 goals since January 2021, half of which (21) all came under Allegri- and that's with Pirlo having played 8 games more than Allegri whilst he was managing from January to May. That's our worst defensive record since 2010, when we conceded 52 under Zaccheroni and Delneri. Embarassing.
I'd cut some slack towards Pirlo given that it was his first ever season coaching, but for a well established 'top defending coach' like Allegri, that's inexcusable.

But sure, Im supposed to give this guy the benefit of the doubt somehow, because the nostalgia merchants here said so. I’m no sarriboy, not by a long mile, but I find it incredibly ironic that the ppl who wanted Sarri out because he simply looked like a tramp, or because of his style of play, are the same folk who got mad when we fired Allegri for his boring style of play, yet here we are with the latter faring worse than the former so far, and allegri throaters fighting tooth and nail to defend him. Incredible.

 

[il brutto]

Oh great, I mixed Genoa and Cagliari, you got me there, all is fine now.

I didn't give a crap about xG when people used it to bash Allegri 3 years ago and I certainly don't care about it now. I know what I'm watching.

It's not about the xG, it's about the clear improvements in defence and in the results we've achieved in the past couple of months. The tables I posted are not sorted based on xG, they're sorted based on actual points.

 

[juve123]

Don't waste your time. These throaters are so blinded by their obsession with this dude it's actually comical, especially when you compare the stats with his predecessors, of whom they slated so much:
Sarri as of Matchday 19 across all comps: 20w 4d 2L
Pirlo as of Matchday 19 across all comps: 17w 6d 3L
Allegri as of Matchday 19 across all comps: 15w 4d 7L

We ended 2021 with at least ten defeats, the highest since 2010. 7 of the 10 all happened under Allegri. We also conceded 42 goals since January 2021, half of which (21) all came under Allegri- and that's with Pirlo having played 8 games more than Allegri whilst he was managing from January to May. That's our worst defensive record since 2010, when we conceded 52 under Zaccheroni and Delneri. Embarassing.
I'd cut some slack towards Pirlo given that it was his first ever season coaching, but for a well established 'top defending coach' like Allegri, that's inexcusable.

But sure, Im supposed to give this guy the benefit of the doubt somehow, because the nostalgia merchants here said so. I’m no sarriboy, not by a long mile, but I find it incredibly ironic that the ppl who wanted Sarri out because he looked like a tramp, or because of his style of play, are the same folk who got mad when we fired Allegri for his boring style of play, yet here we are with the latter faring worse than the former so far, and allegri throaters fighting tooth and nail to defend him. Incredible.

You forgot to put conte stats after matchday 19.Actually we are currently in matchday 22 so you need to add couple of wins to Allegri tally.

 

[campionesidd]

Don't waste your time. These throaters are so blinded by their obsession with this dude it's actually comical, especially when you compare the stats with his predecessors, of whom they slated so much:
Sarri as of Matchday 19 across all comps: 20w 4d 2L
Pirlo as of Matchday 19 across all comps: 17w 6d 3L
Allegri as of Matchday 19 across all comps: 15w 4d 7L

We ended 2021 with at least ten defeats, the highest since 2010. 7 of the 10 all happened under Allegri. We also conceded 42 goals since January 2021, half of which (21) all came under Allegri- and that's with Pirlo having played 8 games more than Allegri whilst he was managing from January to May. That's our worst defensive record since 2010, when we conceded 52 under Zaccheroni and Delneri. Embarassing.
I'd cut some slack towards Pirlo given that it was his first ever season coaching, but for a well established 'top defending coach' like Allegri, that's inexcusable.

But sure, Im supposed to give this guy the benefit of the doubt somehow, because the nostalgia merchants here said so. I’m no sarriboy, not by a long mile, but I find it incredibly ironic that the ppl who wanted Sarri out because he looked like a tramp, or because of his style of play, are the same folk who got mad when we fired Allegri for his boring style of play, yet here we are with the latter faring worse than the former so far, and allegri throaters fighting tooth and nail to defend him. Incredible.

Good. No compare those stats to our first halves from 2014 to 2019 under Allegri.
Also, this is the the first time in decades where Juve don’t have a competent striker, so the drop-off in goals scored is natural.
Allegri has been kinda meh this season, especially with his bizarre insistence on playing Rabiot. But to blame him for every single problem is so myopic given the huge shortcomings of our squad. Few managers, if any, could make this team look good.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Good. No compare those stats to our first halves from 2014 to 2019 under Allegri.
Also, this is the the first time in decades where Juve don’t have a competent striker, so the drop-off in goals scored is natural.
Allegri has been kinda meh this season, especially with his bizarre insistence on playing Rabiot, but to blame him for every single problem is so myopic given the huge shortcomings of our squad. Few managers, if any, could make this team look good.

Follow the advice given by the turd you just quoted and don't waste your time.

He'd be better of watching Tottenham with how obsessed he is with everyone's favorite whiner.

 

[Vlad]

We were lucky to win some games? We were also very unlucky to lose or not win the other games either, or our players like Woj made horrific blunders early on that cost us dearly.

Over the course of the season it evens out so u cannot blame luck or the lack of it for your standings. Last night Udinese didnt create a single clear cut chance, which would require from our goalie to stretch himself out a bit. Many games were like this, which we controlled but admitedly looked a bit stale upfront. As far as it goes, we are on a pace to hit 80 pts this year. A squad that has Kulu, Berna, Alex Sandro/Pelegrini, Morata/Kean, Rugani, Rabiot, Arthur starting frequently in our games. I think this is tremendous, the last few months. At this point we need to rack up points and close the gap with top 4. I couldnt care less for champagne football, because with current group this aint gonna happen so u can come here and criticize this guy as much as u like. We have changed 3 coaches in 3 seasons so the problem obviously lies somewhere else.

Also another thing, Allegri is great at building squads. Hes done it with Milan while they were losing players left and right and he got that mediocre squad to CL place, even managing to beat Barcelona at San Siro with the likes of Niang as right winger, or Montolivo in the middle. He had done pretty amazing job with us in 2015/16, after losing stellar midfield, completely revamped attack and build a team that went on to play in CL final a year later.

Congrats to Max for the milestone, I hope for a lot more to come. Legend

 

[Post Ironic]

Juve should not strive for an okey.

People are crying when criticism is on Allegri and always point out stats like they show anything more than just numbers. We play like shit and numbers won't show that. So many times we won 3pts, and that's great, but we were horrible and quite lucky too. It's clear with our performace big clubs would toy with us. But people constantly fap when they count our points, like they only go on livescore and judge based on that.

(Just to be clear here, I did not watch the match yesterday, but I'm taking generally when it comes to this season)

Who exactly is fapping about our point total this year?

Of course we shouldn’t strive for okay, but we have a shit squad, that became even shittier one game into the season when Ronaldo left, and became shittier still with Chiesa out for a substantial period earlier in the season and now gone for the rest. Since a poor 4 game start, we’ve been collecting points at a 38 game - 82 point pace, while also topping our CL group. Given the squad we have, with no Ronaldo to bail us out, that’s about the max we are gonna see. And we’re going to scrape a lot of results looking poor on the way. Because this squad is poor. Obviously.

 

[U Picciriddu]

Oh great, I mixed Genoa and Cagliari, you got me there, all is fine now.


Exactly, okay is good enough for the squad because they're bad. Okay is not good enough for Max who is a WC coach.

Missing Chiesa has nothing to do with the 442 hybrid. He was limiting Chiesa in that too. That's my entire point - team is not good, team is unbalanced, we're missing Chiesa and Ronaldo and you can still honestly say Allegri is doing some dumb unnecessary shit. That is my frustration.

Max himself said yesterday was not a good game and he was visibly angry. But sure I guess.


I didn't give a crap about xG when people used it to bash Allegri 3 years ago and I certainly don't care about it now. I know what I'm watching.

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Can we please stop with this bullshit?

At least when you're talking about me and non-trolling members? Nobody expects great football, nobody is anti-Allegri, nobody wants him gone. I have been his biggest defender first time around, still am. Wouldn't swap him for Pep and Klopp in tandem if offered.

But criticism of him so far is absolutely deserved this year.

I don’t have time to react to everything

I didn’t like the 442 aswel but this is Allegri, he’ll try something for some time and if it doesn’t work he’ll change it. It’s better than Pirlo or Sarri who keept continuing even if it didn’t work

Besides that it’s to easy to say ‘a WC coach can’t have a okay half year’, it just doesn’t work like that in sports. He’s heavily reliant on the squad and this is at best a top 4 team.

There are so many managers who have had their difficult years, it’s nothing strange.

 

[IlCapitano]

It's not about the xG, it's about the clear improvements in defence and in the results we've achieved in the past couple of months. The tables I posted are not sorted based on xG, they're sorted based on actual points.

Why are those clear improvements not reflected in actual goals conceded?

Once again:

Let's eliminate the first 3 games because those are on individual mistakes - we have played 26 games in all competitions after that.

First 13 games 9W 2D 2L - GD 21 13 + 8 (Ending with a win against Fiorentina on Nov 6th, international break after that)
Last 13 games 8W 2D 3L - GD 19 13 +6 (First game vs Lazio, Nov 20th, ending last night)

I didn't say we haven't improved results (in the league), but I question is it sustainable to give up so much control to such bad teams that Cagliari or Salernitana or even Roma have you on the ropes for periods of the match? Why do we persist with 442 that isn't 442? These are valid questions that Allegri is responsible for.

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I don’t have time to react to everything

I didn’t like the 442 aswel but this is Allegri, he’ll try something for some time and if it doesn’t work he’ll change it. It’s better than Pirlo or Sarri who keept continuing even if it didn’t work

Besides that it’s to easy to say ‘a WC coach can’t have a okay half year’, it just doesn’t work like that in sports. He’s heavily reliant on the squad and this is at best a top 4 team.

There are so many managers who have had their difficult years, it’s nothing strange.

I am not making general and sweeping statements, I am not saying if he is doing not so good now that he is not a good coach etc.

But it is absolutely valid to be frustrated and criticize him so far.

he’ll try something for some time and if it doesn’t work he’ll change it. It’s better than Pirlo or Sarri who keept continuing even if it didn’t work

This here is my problem. How long until he realizes he should've realized this current setup is not good 2 months ago? I would've thought so too, he would change after those initial rounds and months, but we're 5-6 months in and he's still doing the same thing.

He’s heavily reliant on the squad and this is at best a top 4 team.

Exactly, why is he then making it worse by playing so many players out of position?

You, or I or anyone, cannot answer that with anything but 'It's Allegri, he's great, he will figure it out'. You cannot explain his moves with logic, just blind faith. Which is ok I guess for some, but I expected more from him, simple as that.

 

[Vlad]

As for the lack of identity Ive seen a lot of top coaches clinging on to a system even if it clearly doesnt work any longer. Because if they changed, what defined them as a coach would be gone. This guy is a cameleon. He will notice a problem and approach with a different solution. So far, considering both his spells hes been pretty damn good at it.

 

[il brutto]

Why are those clear improvements not reflected in actual goals conceded?

Once again:



I didn't say we haven't improved results (in the league), but I question is it sustainable to give up so much control to such bad teams that Cagliari or Salernitana or even Roma have you on the ropes for periods of the match? Why do we persist with 442 that isn't 442? These are valid questions that Allegri is responsible for.

They are, just look at the tables I posted.

So to make it even more clear:

We've kept 7 clean sheets in the last 11 Serie A games while conceding 6 goals with 3 of those coming against Roma (the only game where we conceded more than one goal).

In the first 11 Serie A games we only kept two clean sheets and conceded 15 goals. In 6 of those games we conceded 2 goals.

There is a factual improvement in our defending, whether you see it or not doesn't change that.

 

[Post Ironic]

Why are those clear improvements not reflected in actual goals conceded?

Once again:



I didn't say we haven't improved results (in the league), but I question is it sustainable to give up so much control to such bad teams that Cagliari or Salernitana or even Roma have you on the ropes for periods of the match? Why do we persist with 442 that isn't 442? These are valid questions that Allegri is responsible for.
.

Why are you making shit up? Cagliari had a few good minutes with one single decent chance. We outshot them 15 - 6. They had one single shot on target all match. Possession was 63-37. Salernitana was outshot 18-4. They had 0 shots on target in the match. Possession was 74-26. You also claimed the Genoa game earlier too as one like this. A game we outshot them 26-0. They didn’t even attempt a single shot all match. Possession was 71-29. We would have won all these matches by even more goals with a decent goalscorer in the squad. We outshot our opponents 59-10 and had 70% possession over those 3 matches.

On the ropes? Complete BS.

 

[Vlad]

ALLEGRI

So he has the highest winning percentage out if all our coaches. Hes so lucky.

 

[Post Ironic]

They are, just look at the tables I posted.

So to make it even more clear:

We've kept 7 clean sheets in the last 11 Serie A games while conceding 6 goals with 3 of those coming against Roma (the only game where we conceded more than one goal).

In the first 11 Serie A games we only kept two clean sheets and conceded 15 goals. In 6 of those games we conceded 2 goals.

There is a factual improvement in our defending, whether you see it or not doesn't change that.

We’re talking about Serie A alone. He’s including the outlier CL loss to Chelsea which puts an obvious different light on the stats from one single terrible performance. And also taking out the first 3 matches of the season for “individual mistakes”

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So he has the highest winning percentage out if all our coaches. Hes so lucky.

Jager thinks Conte is responsible for all of Allegri’s winning.

 

[IlCapitano]

As for lack of identity Ive seen a lot of top coaches clinging on to a system even if it clearly doesnt work any longer. Because if they changed, what defined them as a coach would be gone. This guy is a cameleon. He will notice a problem and approach with a different solution. So far, considering both his spells hes been pretty damn good at it.

He was a chameleon, but is he now? Was he his last full season here? Both that season and this one so far he's found one thing and stuck to it. That is my biggest concern.

They are, just look at the tables I posted.

So to make it even more clear:

We've kept 7 clean sheets in the last 11 Serie A games while conceding 6 goals with 3 of those coming against Roma (the only game where we conceded more than one goal).

In the first 11 Serie A games we only kept two clean sheets and conceded 15 goals. In 6 of those games we conceded 2 or more goals.

There is a factual improvement in our defending, whether you see it or not doesn't change that.

They aren't if you look at matches in all competitions which is what you should do because we don't play only league games. We have conceded the exact same number of goals last 13 games as previous 13, with an easier schedule in the last 13. That is worrying.

Schedule in Serie A had affected this too. 6 of our last 8 games have been bottom half of the table teams. Two games where they weren't we conceded 4 goals. And gave up major risks to Salernitana, Cagliari. Them missing those chances and we not conceding there shows up as a clean sheet, but it is misleading because in another game that is easily a draw.

 

[DAiDEViL]

As for the lack of identity Ive seen a lot of top coaches clinging on to a system even if it clearly doesnt work any longer. Because if they changed, what defined them as a coach would be gone. This guy is a cameleon. He will notice a problem and approach with a different solution. So far, considering both his spells hes been pretty damn good at it.

Lack of identity has always been the most stupid complaint for me personally.

 

[il brutto]

We’re talking about Serie A alone. He’s including the outlier CL loss to Chelsea which puts an obvious different light on the stats from one single terrible performance.

Yeah I just noticed that. Altering the data by removing bad results from the start of the season but not removing bad results from the second part of the season is bad practice. You're bound to get weird and invalid results if you do that.

 

[Post Ironic]

And he is still lying about Salernitana match. Major risks. Easily a draw.