Massimiliano Allegri (382 Viewers)

[Post Ironic]

Is there any young player, who joined us before he's 23, and played for at least one season, that is better now than when he joined? Only Kean comes to mind. Max is not exactly setting the world on fire on player development either.

Dybala improved leaps and bounds in his first season and a half under Max. I’d say his regression since is in large part due to our transfer decisions where we have been opportunistic instead of buying specifically to build a team with a style. That’s not on Max, and he has stated multiple times Beppe (and now Paratici) does the transfer work and it’s up to him to build a team with the players they provide.

Instead of building around Dybala, working on the 4-3-1-2 that we had so much success in 14-15 with Tevez-Morata, Beppe sold our entire midfield and did nothing to replace them adequately outside Pjanic who should be the 3rd best CM in a top class mid, not the best. Dybala has basically had to play as an attacking mid since, unfortunately, because we’ve had no one capable of linking play from defense to attack but him, and it’s not his strong point, he should be in a front 2 imo.

If we have a mid 3 of say... Pjanic-Ndombele/Kante-Ramsey next year, we would have a fantastic mid, and Allegri could have Dybala play fully in attack.

Or just about any top CM with athleticism added to Pjanic + Ramsey. Kante, Ndombele, Pogba, Saul, Koke, Casemiro, etc.

 

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[Ronn]

Dybala improved leaps and bounds in his first season and a half under Max. I’d say his regression since is in large part due to our transfer decisions where we have been opportunistic instead of buying specifically to build a team with a style. That’s not on Max, and he has stated multiple times Beppe (and now Paratici) does the transfer work and it’s up to him to build a team with the players they provide.

Instead of building around Dybala, working on the 4-3-1-2 that we had so much success in 14-15 with Tevez-Morata, Beppe sold our entire midfield and did nothing to replace them adequately outside Pjanic who should be the 3rd best CM in a top class mid, not the best. Dybala has basically had to play as an attacking mid since, unfortunately, because we’ve had no one capable of linking play from defense to attack but him, and it’s not his strong point, he should be in a front 2 imo.

If we have a mid 3 of say... Pjanic-Ndombele/Kante-Ramsey next year, we would have a fantastic mid, and Allegri could have Dybala play fully in attack.

Well since Dybala at this point doesn't fit the question I asked, I won't discuss him specifically. But Even with half a midfield we played our best football in later stages of 2016-17. Anyway, you mentioned Morata, who actually improved much under Max and collapsed elsewhere later. Bernardeschi improved as well. But Sandro actually regressed, and Rugani, Dybala, and Bentancur are kind of in the same level.

 

[Signora Omicidi]

Berna was quite a fantasia when he joined us, but he became run and track back dude eventually.

Cancelo was destroying teams on the right side but Allegri put him on bench because he is not a perfect defender and now he is unable to pass a simple one.

Sandro was firing that left side in his first season but eventually forgot how to go forward somehow.

Dybala was making excellent passes and link up play in his first season but again lost all those abilities somehow.

You see? There is a trend, our fantasy players regress badly after they join us and getting coached by Allegri.
He is unable to make the best out of our talented players and eventually they loose their confidence and become shit.

 

[pavluska]

It's interesting how majority were pro Allegri before Atletico games, everyone anti-Allegri after Atletico first leg, majority pro Allegri again after Atletico second leg (a tie we won by a goal to keep things in perspective), and everyone anti Allegri again post Ajax lol.

 

[Post Ironic]

Well since Dybala at this point doesn't fit the question I asked, I won't discuss him specifically. But Even with half a midfield we played our best football in later stages of 2016-17. Anyway, you mentioned Morata, who actually improved much under Max and collapsed elsewhere later. Bernardeschi improved as well. But Sandro actually regressed, and Rugani, Dybala, and Bentancur are kind of in the same level.

Again though, Sandro became his best in his second season here under Allegri. When we bought him everyone thought Danilo was the better Porto fullback. Sandro exploded under Allegri.

Players seem to improve under Allegri for a year or two and then regress. And it’s not just with young players we see this.

My opinion is that he burns players out. A lot of these players that we are discussing as regressed, it looks more like fitness issues to me. Neither Sandro or Dybala look anywhere near as fit as they did in 15-16 and 16-17... neither looks like they have close to 90 minutes of effort in their legs. Same deal with Pjanic who was fantastic for the last 4 months of his first year and first 4 months of his second year. Since then he’s looked lazy and exhausted almost continually. Even Mandzukic seems to have a few months of bombing around the pitch under Allegri and then looks dead the rest of the year.

There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with our fitness and rotation approach, and those are the two biggest issues I have with Allegri.

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It's interesting how majority were pro Allegri before Atletico games, everyone anti-Allegri after Atletico first leg, majority pro Allegri again after Atletico second leg (a tie we won by a goal to keep things in perspective), and everyone anti Allegri again post Ajax lol.

I’m pro-Allegri still, and am fine with him staying, especially if the board backs him this summer and upgrades our mid... I’d like to see what he can do with a midfield at least close to 14-15 Juve level.

But if we aren’t going to deal with the necessary upgrades, and the team is going to largely stay the same with only minor signings, it may be best to get some fresh motivation and ideas into the squad.

Either way, we need some freshness and rejuvenation... players or coach...

 

[Siamak]

this

Inter dominated Italy for 4 years after Farsopoli and won a treble... Juve dominate Italy for 8 years and have 0 CL to show for it with a much weaker league. Inter built a world class team with a world class coach. The fact they didn't plan for the future was their only mistake.

 

[Ronn]

It's interesting how majority were pro Allegri before Atletico games, everyone anti-Allegri after Atletico first leg, majority pro Allegri again after Atletico second leg (a tie we won by a goal to keep things in perspective), and everyone anti Allegri again post Ajax lol.

to be clear I'm not anti-Allegri. I think our first goal for the next 2-3 seasons should be to grow our commercial revenue, and staying competitive in CL is important for that. I would not let Allegri go for a risky choice, like Ten Hag or likes. If a proven manager becomes available maybe. But Juve under Allegri has obvious weaknesses. Fitness is usually awful in latter stages of the season. While you can blame our lack of fluidity to bad midfield, what's the excuse for fitness? He also does not trust young players enough either. After all these years I don't know what the plan for Rugani is. If he's not good then let him go. Starting Dybala with his shit form over Kean was an awful choice.

 

[Cerval]

this

Please reconsider saying "this" to that rubbish buddy

 

[Ronn]

Again though, Sandro became his best in his second season here under Allegri. When we bought him everyone thought Danilo was the better Porto fullback. Sandro exploded under Allegri.

Players seem to improve under Allegri for a year or two and then regress. And it’s not just with young players we see this.

My opinion is that he burns players out. A lot of these players that we are discussing as regressed, it looks more like fitness issues to me. Neither Sandro or Dybala look anywhere near as fit as they did in 15-16 and 16-17... neither looks like they have close to 90 minutes of effort in their legs. Same deal with Pjanic who was fantastic for the last 4 months of his first year and first 4 months of his second year. Since then he’s looked lazy and exhausted almost continually. Even Mandzukic seems to have a few months of bombing around the pitch under Allegri and then looks dead the rest of the year.

There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with our fitness and rotation approach, and those are the two biggest issues I have with Allegri.

For Dybala it looks more like mentality. But even if fitness is the issue, then this is directly on him. I hope we don't see the same thing with Ronaldo though.

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this

Not sure about you buddy, but If I was given a choice between 1- winning CL while not making it for 6 years, changing 2 owners, massive revenue loss, and a debt of 500m+ while not owning a stadium, and 2- staying competitive for a long period I would choose the second one.

 

[Vlad]

It's interesting how majority were pro Allegri before Atletico games, everyone anti-Allegri after Atletico first leg, majority pro Allegri again after Atletico second leg (a tie we won by a goal to keep things in perspective), and everyone anti Allegri again post Ajax lol.

Pls,

Berna was quite a fantasia when he joined us, but he became run and track back dude eventually.

Cancelo was destroying teams on the right side but Allegri put him on bench because he is not a perfect defender and now he is unable to pass a simple one.

Sandro was firing that left side in his first season but eventually forgot how to go forward somehow.

Dybala was making excellent passes and link up play in his first season but again lost all those abilities somehow.

You see? There is a trend, our fantasy players regress badly after they join us and getting coached by Allegri.
He is unable to make the best out of our talented players and eventually they loose their confidence and become shit.

I will call bs on that For some of these players its about mentality, character, etc... For example Dybala, Id say he is having a poor season due to not working as hard as he did before, which comes out his dissatisfaction with status. He isnt undisputed starter but he is a very good player. He aint Messi, CR level or even Aguero. You can see his reactions every time he gets subbed out and Allegri is spot on to take him off because he aint producing much this season but this hurt his ego... imo

AS doesnt look as quick as in his first season, Cancelo recovered from injury, Berna has always been inconsistent. Have u seen him in Fiorentina? Similar level.

Its been repeated countless times but with a better midfield every one of them will look better. Dybala wont have to drop so deep bc our midfield half the time cant carry ball forward, Berna will put less work in defense bc someone else can pick up his tasks while FBs might actually get decent ball while in good positions to create something.

 

[Stevie]

Allegri's hand was forced against Atletico. He had no choice but to play Spinna and Cancelo he admitted to that himself.

And we were two goals behind so we had no choice but to attack.

It was no master class by him although his subs were perfect in the night.

And the squads Allegri has had at his disposal during his time here have been much greater than what Conte had. I'm not Conte's biggest fan either btw.

 

[Hydde]

Berna was quite a fantasia when he joined us, but he became run and track back dude eventually.

Cancelo was destroying teams on the right side but Allegri put him on bench because he is not a perfect defender and now he is unable to pass a simple one.

Sandro was firing that left side in his first season but eventually forgot how to go forward somehow.

Dybala was making excellent passes and link up play in his first season but again lost all those abilities somehow.

You see? There is a trend, our fantasy players regress badly after they join us and getting coached by Allegri.
He is unable to make the best out of our talented players and eventually they loose their confidence and become shit.

Is a veru worrysome trend.

Bernardeschi is a prime example of this. In his first season (when he was still with the viola mindset)... everytime he was subbed in he delivered and we were hailing him as a future star. This year he got allegrid and now is like a zombie in the 3/4.


Something is going on.

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It's interesting how majority were pro Allegri before Atletico games, everyone anti-Allegri after Atletico first leg, majority pro Allegri again after Atletico second leg (a tie we won by a goal to keep things in perspective), and everyone anti Allegri again post Ajax lol.

I have been consistent tho. I wanted him out since that cardiff season and this has not changed.

 

[Arcticdaly]

Allegri's hand was forced against Atletico. He had no choice but to play Spinna and Cancelo he admitted to that himself.

And we were two goals behind so we had no choice but to attack.

It was no master class by him although his subs were perfect in the night.

And the squads Allegri has had at his disposal during his time here have been much greater than what Conte had. I'm not Conte's biggest fan either btw.

Max said before last nights game that spinna isnt ready or mentally ready to play big games yet .

 

[X Æ A-12]

Dude Bonucci has the worst attitude for a footballer. Remember he was holding his face against Atleti? He pulled one or 2 similar moves yesterday as well. We can also all agree that he's really dumb. And Rugani is not a starter material.

idk Bonucci has succeeded for Juventus when the team in front of him is good. I am not defending their form this season at all, of course not, both have looked absolute clowns at times but I'm not big on the idea of throwing everything out and rebuilding from scratch. I understand the emotional reaction to a disappointing season but I don't think our current situation warrants more than just a few quality additions.

 

[IliveForJuve]

Max said before last nights game that spinna isnt ready or mentally ready to play big games yet .

Maybe if he had no offensive qualities like DeShitglio he would trust him.

 

[campionesidd]

Max said before last nights game that spinna isnt ready or mentally ready to play big games yet .

That is such horseshit.

 

[Arcticdaly]

Maybe if he had no offensive qualities like DeShitglio he would trust him.

Thats what he really meant.

 

[Hydde]

Max said before last nights game that spinna isnt ready or mentally ready to play big games yet .

Some harsh words for one of the guys who saved his ass in the CL a month ago.

Just wow

 

[Ronn]

idk Bonucci has succeeded for Juventus when the team in front of him is good. I am not defending their form this season at all, of course not, both have looked absolute clowns at times but I'm not big on the idea of throwing everything out and rebuilding from scratch. I understand the emotional reaction to a disappointing season but I don't think our current situation warrants more than just a few quality additions.

I'm not advocating throwing baby with the bath water. I feel Bonucci has changed since that Milan shit show. It's like the whole discipline is gone. Maybe it was because of Gigi? I don't know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Post Ironic]

For Dybala it looks more like mentality. But even if fitness is the issue, then this is directly on him. I hope we don't see the same thing with Ronaldo though.

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Not sure about you buddy, but If I was given a choice between 1- winning CL while not making it for 6 years, changing 2 owners, massive revenue loss, and a debt of 500m+ while not owning a stadium, and 2- staying competitive for a long period I would choose the second one.

I think I said earlier the fitness issues that this club has been dealing with are directly on Allegri and his staff. Are players have arrived at this time of year the last two seasons looking completely gassed and exhausted. Very few of them seem to have 90 minutes in their legs. That's a big problem.

His first 3 seasons, we looked at our fittest and sharpest from February through to May. The last two seasons we've looked dead in the water.