Massimiliano Allegri (304 Viewers)

[Nedved96]

8th place, 4th place, 4th place, and not a single trophy at Liverpool thus far suggests otherwise.

When Klopp took over Liverpool in 2015, they were in the same position as Milan are now, and he had very little money to spend.

They have been consistently improving with each season.

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2 seasons? As in last year, and half of this year? Or are you including his incredibly mediocre 16-17 as well?

17/18 and 18/19 (so far)

 

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[Post Ironic]

When Klopp took over Liverpool in 2015, they were in the same position as Milan are now, and he had very little money to spend.

They have been consistently improving with each season.

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17/18 and 18/19 (so far)

They finished 2nd in 13 -14 by 2 points, and 6th in 14-15. His 8th place first season there was an unmitigated disaster, especially considering how weak the league was, with Leicester City winning it. It was a terrible year of management by him, as was his last year at Dortmund.

He has definitely improved them each season since. But until he actually accomplished something at Liverpool, a title, etc. that's an outlandish claim. Conte managed to come in and win PL in his first season with a mediocre Chelsea. Pep smoked the league last year. Both years Liverpool finished 4th. If he holds on and wins the title this year, he deserves much praise for it. But there's no way he's the best coach of the last few seasons because of a single CL final run.

 

[He-Man]

meanwhile, Conte almost in inter.This gay is vry good source. Disgusting

 

[dolph]

Your prerogative. But then let's not act like others are the only ones with ridiculous notions. Sarri hasn't won a thing, and is currently getting embarrassed at Chelsea.

Sarri is the GOAT of coaches, you just have not seen the light yet. But dont worry, when one day he will chain smoke wearing his trademark tracksuit on the Juve bench, and you to will see the light

 

[Hist]

Zidane is obviously the best coach of the last few seasons even from a purely results standpoint (not to suggest that Madrid played our brand of yawn football).

Looking over his entire career, Klopp is showing he can do really well as the underdog while playing very attractive football. Allegri does very well as the underdog (we have been punching above our weight in Europe) but playing unattractive football just like Simeone and Conte.

This is Allegri's first season ever as a favorite with a World Class squad and his inability to play attacking football effectively is showing. I'd imagine Conte and Simeone having a similar struggle if they have to play very attacking.

Klopp doesnt have this problem because his best achievements were done via attractive football. The better his squad gets the more effective they will be. I am sure if he is tasked with playing defensive football, even while provided with the best defensive players in the world (the opposite of what he has been doing all his career) he would have big problems as well... just like Allegri is struggling to switch styles right now with a great offensive squad.

Eitherway, no one is claiming any of these is a bad coach they'd all be in the top 5 of anyone's list. The discussion here is about ranking them, and outlining the strengths and weaknesses of each, and who would be most suitable for Juve going forward, assuming we are changing our style to a more attacking approach. To that point I'd like Zizou > Klopp > Pep> Conte > Simeone >Allegri.

If we are keeping our old style then Allegri > Simeone > Zizou > Conte > Klopp > Pep

 

[zizinho]

There are about four great players in that lineup (Lewa, Reus, Hummels, Gundogan). The rest are decent players but nothing special, and Dortmund had no bench. Overall, that team had no business being in a CL final.

And this team had absolutely no business breaking the all time CL goalscoring record:

Karius
Arnold - Lovren - Van Dijk - Robertson
Wijnaldum - Henderson - Milner
Salah - Firmino - Mane

The kind of football Klopp plays with average players is truly staggering. That midfield is Europa League standard.

He is currently the best manager in the world.

Subotic was better than Hummels back then. and Pisczek was on Madrid radar. just because you didnt know half these players doesent mean they were shit Neddy

 

[Nedved96]

Subotic was better than Hummels back then. and Pisczek was on Madrid radar. just because you didnt know half these players doesent mean they were shit Neddy

Klopp makes players look much better than they actually are. Gotze, Pisczek, Subotic, etc... he’s doing the same at Liverpool with Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner. His ability to make average players look like top players is incredible.

Salah was merely a good player at Roma. Klopp has turned him into one of the best in the world.

 

[zizinho]

Klopp makes players look much better than they actually are. Gotze, Pisczek, Subotic, etc... he’s doing the same at Liverpool with Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner. His ability to make average players look like top players is incredible.

he does with workhorse CMs, like Conte

 

[Nedved96]

he does with workhorse CMs, like Conte

Not just workhorse CMs. He improves his forwards as well.

Salah was merely a good player at Roma. Klopp has turned him into one of the best in the world.

 

[juve103423]

Paratici recently said we will sit with our coach and talk about the transfer market and then make decision.

Yes of course. We are a football club. Its one of the most idiotic things from Daidevel to claim really. Trying to defend him by saying that his hands are tied, management wont listen to him, Khedira, Pjanic and Matuidi are forced on him. Every season Beppe came with bunch of players for him and he would try to make it work.

 

[zizinho]

Not just workhorse CMs. He improves his forwards as well.

Salah was merely a good player at Roma. Klopp has turned him into one of the best in the world.

you gonna credit him for getting players just about to enter their prime and peaking under him?

 

[Nedved96]

you gonna credit him for getting players just about to enter their prime and peaking under him?

Salah’s absolutely enormous jump can’t be explained by ageing a year alone.

At Roma, Salah was a good player but not a top player. He wasn’t rated as highly as Dybala. There were even people who rated Cuadrado higher than him.

Salah went from a top 40 player in the world to a top 5 player in the world just like that.

 

[Cerval]

I'm not even sure I'd be able to hate Conte if he really is going to Inter unless he starts getting dirty with us. I'll hate the move but apart from that, I don't know...

 

[zizinho]

Salah’s absolutely enormous jump can’t be explained by ageing a year alone.

At Roma, Salah was a good player but not a top player. He wasn’t rated as highly as Dybala. There were even people who rated Cuadrado higher than him.

Salah went from a top 40 player in the world to a top 5 player in the world just like that.

and back to a top 40 player again, just like that. Salah was the same at Roma as well, as a purely offensive weapon. the only difference, he was missing more 100% chances and having less space. at Liverpool he got to play with a lot more space, in a league of higher pace, and he improved himself as a finisher (i guess you think Klopp made him a better finisher then?). if what you say is true, why cant he make Sturridge into even half the player he was before Klopp arrived? and since you love crediting coaches for players peaking under them, then Allegri made Pogba and Bonucci into WC players when Conte couldnt. or did Tuchel make Mkhitaryan look WC, something even Klopp couldnt do?

 

[Hist]

I'm not even sure I'd be able to hate Conte if he really is going to Inter unless he starts getting dirty with us. I'll hate the move but apart from that, I don't know...

I wouldnt hate him as a person unless he had better offers elsewhere. But I'd hate the fact that he would fix Inter... something I never want to see happen. Milan being a top team I dont mind but Inter I despise too much.

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you gonna credit him for getting players just about to enter their prime and peaking under him?

Its always difficult to discern whether a player's form is down to great coaching or was it gonna happen on its own anyway? This works both ways be it a huge improvement in a player's level or a decline.


Some cases are clear-cut because there is a clear difference in level before, during and after:
1) Sneijder was mediocre before and after Mou - credit to Mou.
2) Pogba was world class with France, and Juve and in Utd post-Mou - Credit to Mou again but this time for his decline.
3) Giacherrini was mediocre before and after Conte - credit to Conte
4) Koman was mediocre before and After Pep - credit to Pep.

Other cases are more controversial but also hint at a strong coach influence. Some players say that a specific coach taught them football and the learnings stayed with them after the coach departed:
1) Barzagli was mediocre for years turned world class instantly under Conte. But he stayed worldclass since then- credit Conte?
2) Pirlo's resurgence - as per Pirlo himself.
3) Bonnuci was crap till Conte, remained world class since then while under Allegri. Credit Conte and Allegri? or was it something mental?
4) Higuain and Ronaldo take a massive dip in their level under Allegri - was it gonna happen anyway even if they stayed with Sarri/Zizou?
5) Salah takes a giant leap under Klopp.
6) Sterling under Pep.

And yes players' finishing does get influenced by how players are coached. With clear memorized attacking patterns, players know where to expect the ball, at what shooting angle and speed and they practice that ad infinitum in training till it becomes muscle memory and second nature to them. If most of the memorized movements are about the defensive phase or transition phases (Mou style), the players dont have the same predictability and their finishing might suffer as a result.

How many times did you see the vidal or marchisio run from midfield and Pirlo's pass over the defence goal? How many times did you see the Pirlo - licht cutting inside goal? How many times did you see the same Alba-Messi combo or the same Marcelo-Ronaldo combo? The cut back to sterling at far post goal? These arent improvised goals. Its memorized combos and finishing positions.

 

[il brutto]

 

[Hist]

Are we scoring less goals relative to previous seasons at this stage? (I know we always started slow but still)

 

[il brutto]

Are we scoring less goals relative to previous seasons at this stage? (I know we always started slow but still)

Not really. We're on pace to score 77-78 goals.

 

[JuveJay]

he does with workhorse CMs, like Conte

That's because his system bypasses quality in midfield, it goes front to back very quickly.

 

[JuveJay]

Are we scoring less goals relative to previous seasons at this stage? (I know we always started slow but still)

https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/ita-serie-a-2017-2018-spieltag/21/
https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/ita-serie-a-2016-2017-spieltag/21/
https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/ita-serie-a-2015-2016-spieltag/21/

Less than last year, mostly same sort of numbers.