out now?


  • Total voters
    166
  • Poll closed .

Xperd

Allegrophobic Infidel
Jun 1, 2012
34,973
I think that Sevilla game will really tell a lot of things of whether we are actually capable of winning CL or not as vague as it sounds.

There's no reason for a team like this with so much talent to play negatively like it does in Europe. Allegri needs to grow some balls and field an attacking lineup in the next CL game.
 

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GiocataGrande

Commendatore
May 26, 2016
4,073
I think that Sevilla game will really tell a lot of things of whether we are actually capable of winning CL or not as vague as it sounds.

There's no reason for a team like this with so much talent to play negatively like it does in Europe. Allegri needs to grow some balls and field an attacking lineup in the next CL game.
I just finished watching the Sevilla game, and even considering they played Dinamo, they look really strong with Nzonzi, Ganso and Vietto creating havoc. With a performance anything reminiscent of yesterday we will most certainly not win.
 

Juvellino

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
7,145
Honest question... Say we finish second and like last year we leave early at the round of 16 again, would Allegri still have a place managing this team?
I think we should sack Allegri and hire a new manager if we finish 2nd in the group and crash out in round of 16.

If we finish 1st in the group and we get an unlucky draw and crash out v another top club in the round of 16 I would keep Allegri if we were competitive, 50-50 performance but it would be his last chance.
 

LiquidPLP

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2012
12,237
Honest question... Say we finish second and like last year we leave early at the round of 16 again, would Allegri still have a place managing this team?
That's a very good question but no easy answer for that :D

Overall to keep improving you need to punch above your weight, otherwise you don't grow or it's not fast enough. This is what's happening now if we leave the competition early. When Conte came he definitely punched above our weight (back then) so we started to grow fast. Then Allegri did it with the CL final which helped us A LOT. Now we need something like this again.

On the other hand it's difficult to fight for CL with a team changing so much and so fast like ours. We've lost too many important players in recent years and that's some decent excuse for Allegri.

At the end of the day we should drop Allegri only for a better coach and I don't see anyone worthy being around. I hate his comments lately but I can say the same about Chiellini's or Marchisio's. If we don't want to stick with Allegri, we either gamble on someone like Di Francesco or we pray for someone like Ancelotti or Guardiola which is not happening.

I think Allegri will stay as long as he wins the scudetto. What we need more than a new coach is to stop the bleeding come (every) Summer, because no coach will handle so much rotation. Now we have to rebuild the midfield entirely and by the time we get it done, defense will need rebuilding and so on. That's not how big clubs operate, just take a look at Bayern/Barca/RM - they don't do revolutions every Summer and thanks to that they have worked out things that work for them.

I think that Sevilla game will really tell a lot of things of whether we are actually capable of winning CL or not as vague as it sounds.

There's no reason for a team like this with so much talent to play negatively like it does in Europe. Allegri needs to grow some balls and field an attacking lineup in the next CL game.
We're not winning CL this year, we're not capable of it. It's too much mess right now and in CL you always need something extra. We lack simple basics right now, so let's first fix our problems then hope for that something 'extra' to happen.
 

digitalbash

Senior Member
Dec 19, 2013
1,421
Allegri will do as much as he can to keep his job. Meaning, he will play as conservative as possible. Juventus has a small team mentality in Europe. I don't care if we bought a 90M player. We play like shit and aren't ambitious. And that has to do with the coaching. His coaching is conservative, which is OKAY, however, he also has the worst athletic training team. Muscle injuries everywhere...
 

DUKAC

Senior Member
Feb 29, 2012
12,290
]That's a very good question but no easy answer for that :D

Overall to keep improving you need to punch above your weight, otherwise you don't grow or it's not fast enough. This is what's happening now if we leave the competition early. When Conte came he definitely punched above our weight (back then) so we started to grow fast. Then Allegri did it with the CL final which helped us A LOT. Now we need something like this again.

On the other hand it's difficult to fight for CL with a team changing so much and so fast like ours. We've lost too many important players in recent years and that's some decent excuse for Allegri.

At the end of the day we should drop Allegri only for a better coach and I don't see anyone worthy being around. I hate his comments lately but I can say the same about Chiellini's or Marchisio's. If we don't want to stick with Allegri, we either gamble on someone like Di Francesco or we pray for someone like Ancelotti or Guardiola which is not happening.

I think Allegri will stay as long as he wins the scudetto. What we need more than a new coach is to stop the bleeding come (every) Summer, because no coach will handle so much rotation. Now we have to rebuild the midfield entirely and by the time we get it done, defense will need rebuilding and so on. That's not how big clubs operate, just take a look at Bayern/Barca/RM - they don't do revolutions every Summer and thanks to that they have worked out things that work for them.




Very good post .You have a point here.:tup:
 

Fr3sh

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2011
37,254
Honest question... Say we finish second and like last year we leave early at the round of 16 again, would Allegri still have a place managing this team?
Honestly, I don't think it's entirely EuroMax's fault. He doesn't have the appropriate personnel, Beppe's done a great job getting him a WC striker in Higuain and by finding solid alternatives to Barzagli/Chiellini in Benatia, and he's also got him a promising young talent in Pjaca. However one thing Beppe neglected was reinforcing the midfield, Pjanic is Pogba's replacement and that's cool, but what we needed last year is the same thing that we are missing this year, a Vidal replacement. In my opinion Beppe fucked up by not pushing harder for Kante or a player of a similar ilk.

Allegri is working with what he has, and he has a thin and feeble midfield to work with, Marchisio is the only reliable midfielder and we are one injury away from ending our European season, as for the league we got this.

For this winter, Beppe has serious work, he needs to bulk up our midfield.

- - - Updated - - -

Forget my last post. Ale has spoken.
Fire that Milanese infiltrator!!
 

Big Bang

Junior Member
Mar 12, 2012
355
That's the biggest load of bull$#@! I've read on this forum in a while. Especially with the rise of the superclubs (Barca, Madrid and Bayern) - winning the CL has never been more difficult.
Two things:

a) In 2014-2015, we WERE a "superclub". Those teams didn't have anything on us, we were toe-to-toe with them.
b) "Never been more difficult", yet Atletico Madrid managed to reach the final last year. Try your hardest to explain this one for me without using the words "Diego" and "Simeone".

When a manager is given a world class squad, like the one we had between 2013-2015, questions need to be asked of him when he doesn't deliver the Champions League.

Questions such as "Would managers like Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp, Ancelotti, or Simeone been able to do better than getting knocked out by losing 2-1 on aggregate to Benfica?"

Especially damning in Allegri's case is that more so than any other team in Europe's big leagues, Juventus can afford to put a lot of focus on Champions League with the assurance that the domestic title is in the bag. You all think and act like this era is everlasting, you have normalized it in your minds and taken it for granted, but football always finds ways to restore equilibrium. Inter are spending a lot of money. Milan have been bought by the Chinese. These kinds of things create new eras.

When judging Allegri, one must also ask: how has he capitalized on our period of domestic dominance? How much did he capitalize on the fact that we had a squad capable of standing toe-to-toe with Europe's elite, whilst our domestic competitors couldn't string two wins together against mid-table teams without stumbling over their own feet?

- - - Updated - - -

Explain please. How can you say we should have atleast one CL single over the past 4 years, but this year it's out of the question? I'm not even saying we have a big chance this year.
We had (and still have) one of the best defensive lines in Europe.
We had (and still have) one of the finest goalkeepers.
We had (no longer have) one of the best and most balanced midfields when we had Vidal, Pirlo, Pogba, and Marchisio.
We had (no longer have) one of the best center forwards in the world in Tevez.

We had a squad that was so world-class that it essentially managed itself. This squad here, so severely degraded, needs a manager that instills his vision and strategy into it. It needs a manager that makes you go "Ha, who would've thought [Team X] could outplay Barcelona so thoroughly."

We don't have a manager like that. When he had the type of team he needed, he didn't deliver. How could you expect him to now? It's almost unfair, really.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, I don't think it's entirely EuroMax's fault. He doesn't have the appropriate personnel, Beppe's done a great job getting him a WC striker in Higuain and by finding solid alternatives to Barzagli/Chiellini in Benatia, and he's also got him a promising young talent in Pjaca.

However one thing Beppe neglected was reinforcing the midfield, Pjanic is Pogba's replacement and that's cool, but what we needed last year is the same thing that we are missing this year, a Vidal replacement. In my opinion Beppe $#@!ed up by not pushing harder for Kante or a player of a similar ilk.

Allegri is working with what he has, and he has a thin and feeble midfield to work with, Marchisio is the only reliable midfielder and we are one injury away from ending our European season, as for the league we got this.

For this winter, Beppe has serious work, he needs to bulk up our midfield.
Help me reconcile some things here.

You said "Pjanic is Pogba's replacement, and that's cool" ("cool" he says :lol:) and then, in a classic example of a moment of accidental honesty, you went on to say that "Marchisio is the only reliable midfielder [we have]". Can you please explain to me how "it's cool" that we replaced Pogba with a midfielder that you yourself don't think of as "reliable"? :lol:
 

Nzoric

Grazie Mirko
Jan 16, 2011
37,877
Honest question... Say we finish second and like last year we leave early at the round of 16 again, would Allegri still have a place managing this team?
I cant see him at the helm next season. Even though its not his fault entirely, the coach is the first to take the blame and this season isnt heading anywhere pretty
 

Fr3sh

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2011
37,254
cool" he says :lol:) and then, in a classic example of a moment of accidental honesty, you went on to say that "Marchisio is the only reliable midfielder [we have]". Can you please explain to me how "it's cool" that we replaced Pogba with a midfielder that you yourself don't think of as "reliable"? :lol:
Here let me help you out.

Last season, Marchisio was arguably our ONLY reliable midfielder. Same shit this year. Pjanic is as reliable/unreliable as Pogba. Simple as that. He's been bought here to add some creativity in the midfield, just like Pogba.

What we need is solidity in the midfield. We need a hound, we need a bully, we need a Vidal replacement, Lemina/Sturaro can be the bench option for said replacement. This has been long overdue, should've been fixed last season.

And we also need someone who can take over for Marchisio, when he needs to get rested or if he gets injured.

Essentially we need 3 quality midfielder, one that is a DM that can spread the ball adequately (Marchisio), one that can add a bit of creativity in the midfield (Pjanic) and we need a third midfielder who will be making runs, putting in tackles, basically an all action midfielder, someone like Allan would be good enough.

Having only 2 out 3 of those types of midfielders and continuing to play a formation that requires cohesion in the middle will inevitably cause us problems.



Is this clear enough?
 

Big Bang

Junior Member
Mar 12, 2012
355
(1) What we need more than a new coach is to stop the bleeding come (every) Summer, because no coach will handle so much rotation.


(2) We're not winning CL this year, we're not capable of it. It's too much mess right now and in CL you always need something extra. We lack simple basics right now, so let's first fix our problems then hope for that something 'extra' to happen.
(1) I think we can both agree that we're not selling players because we need money, yeah? When you buy someone for 90m Euros, you're definitely not broke. So, if it's not because we need the money, why would we sell our players like this every summer? Do you not think it's possible, that maybe, our best players are identifying that our manager lacks vision and doesn't really know where he wants to take the team? Do you not think it's possible that they're leaving because they don't believe he has what it takes to win the Champions League? Why would you leave a team where you're winning the domestic title comfortably every year, getting a tremendous amount of silverware that other players can only dream of? "Vidal: I left Juventus to win Champions League." When our best players don't think our manager is capable of winning the Champions League, they leave. How long do you think Dybala will stay?

(2) Solid gold, I agree with every word. In my case, that "extra" I'm hoping for is getting a manager that top players (ours and ones we might buy) believe in. It's impractical for our board to force people to stay when they don't believe in our project. The only solution is to bring in someone with a better project.
 

Big Bang

Junior Member
Mar 12, 2012
355
Here let me help you out.

Last season, Marchisio was arguably our ONLY reliable midfielder. Same $#@! this year. Pjanic is as reliable/unreliable as Pogba. Simple as that. He's been bought here to add some creativity in the midfield, just like Pogba.

What we need is solidity in the midfield. We need a hound, we need a bully, we need a Vidal replacement, Lemina/Sturaro can be the bench option for said replacement. This has been long overdue, should've been fixed last season.

And we also need someone who cant take over for Marchisio, when he needs to get rested or if he gets injured.

Essentially we need 3 quality midfielder, one that is a DM that can spread the ball adequately (Marchisio), one that can add a bit of creativity in the midfield (Pjanic) and we need a third midfielder who will be making runs, putting in tackles, basically an all action midfielder, someone like Allan would be good enough.

Having only 2 out 3 of those types of midfielders and continuing to play a formation that requires cohesion in the middle will inevitably cause us problems.



Is this clear enough?
Ooooh, I see. God, so silly of me. Of course that's the explanation: Pogba was never reliable in the first place! I completely forgot about that. I was just distracted by his 8 goals, 12 assists, and just general domination of any midfield we played against last year, but I TOTALLY see it now.

This is like Animal Farm, or 1984. Truths can just change based on convenience of current argument we're trying to sell. It's a fun world you live in! I have a feeling if you read enough posts, you'll eventually see someone making the claim that Chiellini was always overrated, and that Caceras was the star of our defensive line all along :lol::lol:.

Also, the way you talk about our midfield gives the impression that we are just creating chances left, right, and center! You're describing our midfield situation like we constantly get 15-20 chances per game, but that our only problem is we're soft defensively and so we need someone like Kante to solidify our midfield and we're set!

We had TWO SHOTS ON GOAL against Lyon. Let that sink in. We scored with a penalty. But yea, sure, Allan will solve that and we'll win the Champions League with him next year.

(How deluded are you people?!?!?!? It's okay to admit that Pjanic is a massive downgrade to Pogba. It's fine, just say it - saying it won't make it your fault that we did this stupid thing.)
 

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