Massimiliano Allegri (241 Viewers)

[Vialli_92]

We play with no wingers or attacking midfielders. Are people really surprised we can't break teams down and demolish minnows like the other big boys? Signing Cuadrado and Pjaca is a step in the right direction and I would like to see more of these types players and less of the jack of all trades players like someone else mentioned.

Ditching the 5-3-2/3-5-2 or what ever the fuck it is really needs to happen sooner rather than later as well. We have more than a good enough defence not to play 3 cb's each game.

 

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[Hydde]

We rely too much on cm type of players who are at best jack of all trades (even vidal who was the best with us)...

Those cms and registas no matter how great they are, are simply not enough for teams that want to be top teams on this era

Their contribution and ability to attack are easily nullified by any teams that have just little sense of tactics and defending...

We had MVPP and we didn't look any better against galatasaray benfica and the likes than what we just did against lyon

The limitations are clearly there since years ago.

We need attacking midfielders and wingers, badly, doesn't matter if we could only get the pjacas and cuads of this world, it will still be better for option than the extreme limited option we have, and we need to play with them regularly, not as a 2nd thoughts where we are forced to adapt.

Buying witsel matuidi and the likes of yet another cm are just a waste of resources, we would be better get the wingers and attacking midfielders version of them.

guys, only reason max ditched 3-5-2 in europe in CL final season was because of injuries to chiellini and pirlo

not because of some masterclass revealation that he had or because he developed balls all of a sudden

I call bullshid. He did it because we were at the verge of elimination after 3 CL games in the group phase. He was agaonst the wall and tried soemthing new. We needed a win in turin, we won with good football and grinta and the rest was history. We reached the final after a succesfull streaks of 4312 games.

Thats the kind of balls i wanna see from him.

We play with no wingers or attacking midfielders. Are people really surprised we can't break teams down and demolish minnows like the other big boys? Signing Cuadrado and Pjaca is a step in the right direction and I would like to see more of these types players and less of the jack of all trades players like someone else mentioned.

Ditching the 5-3-2/3-5-2 or what ever the $#@! it is really needs to happen sooner rather than later as well. We have more than a good enough defence not to play 3 cb's each game.

As a big team we need to offer more for sure. Taking in consideration our steady progress in our last 5 years, i think we should.

 

[PedroFlu]

The change to 4 defenders can happen, in theory, to a 433, a 4231 or to a 41212 (diamond).

I bet Allegri will first move it to the 41212, because it's more gradual - replacing a CB for a CM, instead of a CB for a forward. Allegri has always been very cautious about this, so it's the logic decision.

Therefore I think the move to 4 defenders will rely on the signing of another great/high profile midfielder to play, who can't be out of the team. That would be Witsel, at least on their eyes.

When Allegri had Pirlo, Marchisio, Pogba and Vidal, he even played Vidal as an AM to fit all four, and changed to a back 4 with no problems.

So it depends on Witsel arriving in january, and instantly performing. That's when Allegri will move Pjanic to the AM position and start playing some games on this formation, starting a slow transition.

352 should be, however, the main scheme till 2018, when the BBC era really will come to an end, with the retirement of Barzagli, possibly Buffon, and maybe a relegation of importance of Chiellini.

The 433 won't happen in the near future, imo, because I don't think Cuadrado fits with Dybala behind Higuain and Pjaca will take some time to get full trust from Allegri.

So the transition may start from january, but only if Witsel comes and hits the ground running. If not, it will start only in the 2017-18 season, coming to an end in mid 2018.

And despite seeming a very predictable scheme, 352 is amazing with the CBs we have and specially with Sandro + Alves (when he keeps position width) or Cuadrado (who I love as a RWB, perfect player for this if he can contain his urge to attack all the time and solidify defensive positioning).

Also, there is the Dybala question. I think he really can't play as a winger, and obviously can't stay out of the team. He's a pure old style trequartista it seems to me, going from the middle.

A 41212 with Pjanic as an AM could work from the start, or actually take some time to gel, because Pjanic can't take Dybala's space.

We have to play the way it suits better our best and most special player (Dybala), and with our wingers, 352 is perfect. But Sandro is probably our second most important player in this scheme, can't be left out.

 

[Hist]

thats why we have Pjaca. if you need more offense you just make one sub

That makes it fine. Some clubs attack with Bale and Ronaldo on the wings and others attack with Pjaca and Cuadrado. Inter level wingers.

 

[Juvellino]

The change to 4 defenders can happen, in theory, to a 433, a 4231 or to a 41212 (diamond).

I bet Allegri will first move it to the 41212, because it's more gradual - replacing a CB for a CM, instead of a CB for a forward. Allegri has always been very cautious about this, so it's the logic decision.

Therefore I think the move to 4 defenders will rely on the signing of another great/high profile midfielder to play, who can't be out of the team. That would be Witsel, at least on their eyes.

When Allegri had Pirlo, Marchisio, Pogba and Vidal, he even played Vidal as an AM to fit all four, and changed to a back 4 with no problems.

So it depends on Witsel arriving in january, and instantly performing. That's when Allegri will move Pjanic to the AM position and start playing some games on this formation, starting a slow transition.

352 should be, however, the main scheme till 2018, when the BBC era really will come to an end, with the retirement of Barzagli, possibly Buffon, and maybe a relegation of importance of Chiellini.

The 433 won't happen in the near future, imo, because I don't think Cuadrado fits with Dybala behind Higuain and Pjaca will take some time to get full trust from Allegri.

So the transition may start from january, but only if Witsel comes and hits the ground running. If not, it will start only in the 2017-18 season, coming to an end in mid 2018.

And despite seeming a very predictable scheme, 352 is amazing with the CBs we have and specially with Sandro + Alves (when he keeps position width) or Cuadrado (who I love as a RWB, perfect player for this if he can contain his urge to attack all the time and solidify defensive positioning).

Also, there is the Dybala question. I think he really can't play as a winger, and obviously can't stay out of the team. He's a pure old style trequartista it seems to me, going from the middle.

A 41212 with Pjanic as an AM could work from the start, or actually take some time to gel, because Pjanic can't take Dybala's space.

We have to play the way it suits better our best and most special player (Dybala), and with our wingers, 352 is perfect. But Sandro is probably our second most important player in this scheme, can't be left out.

Great post as usual

 

[PedroFlu]

I think they have a very logical line of thinking. You select the scheme according to the players you have, not the opposite.

Right now we have more great CBs than great midfielders.

We have great wing backs.

Dybala is our main player and he clearly suits perfectably in 352, while his positioning while playing with Pjanic as a pure AM or with another forward in Cuadrado or Pjaca is still unclear.

So absolutely, 352 is the way to go.

Allegri does love 41212, like Milan's, but we need another midfielder who performs so well he will have to push for a place on the team. And that's not Hernanes, Sturaro, Asamoah or Lemina (even though I love Lemina's potential).

 

[zizinho]

That makes it fine. Some clubs attack with Bale and Ronaldo on the wings and others attack with Pjaca and Cuadrado. Inter level wingers.

lol

 

[PedroFlu]

Last thing: our poor performances are more related to mentality and the lack of presence in the middle.

We need, mainly, more personality from Pjanic and Khedira. That's the focal point. Our midfield has been generally weak. And many feared that even before the season started.

Also the poor movement from Alves, who must provide width, that's fundamental in the 352. But correcting that is easy.

Marchisio will be important to make the mid impose their presence, but it's unclear if it will be enough.

We basically need more from Pjanic and Khedira. Specially Pjanic. Roma had Nainggolan to make up for his absence, but we don't have this player (Vidal) anymore.

So if Pjanic fails to assert himself more as a CM (and to an extent, also Khedira), the solution may actually move gradually to a 4 men mid with the new signing in january.

 

[Hydde]

I would also like to see how mandragora could adapt into our team. Its a real shame he is injured. I like his style of carrying the ball and long range passing.

Marchisio, a new great DM and mandragora could boost our team.

 

[Klin]

Mandragora the new Pjaca.

Both are saviors to this team.

 

[Hydde]

Mandragora the new Pjaca.

Both are saviors to this team.

Sarcasm but

 

[MikeM]

The only question for a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 is whether Dybala could play as an inside forward type RW or as a CAM. If he can do either of those things, then you can play those formations.

Cuadrado at LW with Alex Sandro at LB would not only be viable but potentially devastating as Cuadrado is very adept at cutting inside and Alex Sandro is very adept at crossing (space will be created for him).

Also, at some point you are going to have to create a role for Pjaca. He can't simply be a vice-Dybala. He will never play, it's as simple as that.

 

[dolph]

That makes it fine. Some clubs attack with Bale and Ronaldo on the wings and others attack with Pjaca and Cuadrado. Inter level wingers.

Whats wrong with you. In a 4-3-3, with Dybala as RWF with less defensive duties, a guy like Cuadrado would ve perfect as the more defensive LW. Kind of the Pepe role in the 4-3-3 Conte played in hes first season here. Allowing the team to play with 3 forwards without loosing balance. And Pjaca seems extremely promising. One of the most exciting offensive talent in Europe.

 

[napoleonic]

I think they have a very logical line of thinking. You select the scheme according to the players you have, not the opposite.

Which is why I start to lay the blame on the others in management as well... Have they became so blind that they cannot see such obvious weakness? More CMs aren't the answer, pjanic can't play amc, even if he could, we would have no sub for him, we also need more wingers so we aren't limited to just 2 personnel.

It's shocking for a club like us that the last notable attacking midfielder we had was zidane, 15 years ago...

Part of the blame lies on calcio culture as well, because many teams have the same pattern as ours, there are clear lack of wingers and attacking mids in the league as well, while probably most all other leagues in the world have them.

 

[ALC]

Which is why I start to lay the blame on the others in management as well... Have they became so blind that they cannot see such obvious weakness? More CMs aren't the answer, pjanic can't play amc, even if he could, we would have no sub for him, we also need more wingers so we aren't limited to just 2 personnel.

It's shocking for a club like us that the last notable attacking midfielder we had was zidane, 15 years ago...

Part of the blame lies on calcio culture as well, because many teams have the same pattern as ours, there are clear lack of wingers and attacking mids in the league as well, while probably most all other leagues in the world have them.

Wasn't Nedved an attacking midfielder? Sure he was more of a winger but he played all over midfield. And imo he had a way bigger impact on the team than Zidane

 

[Hist]

Whats wrong with you. In a 4-3-3, with Dybala as RWF with less defensive duties, a guy like Cuadrado would ve perfect as the more defensive LW. Kind of the Pepe role in the 4-3-3 Conte played in hes first season here. Allowing the team to play with 3 forwards without loosing balance. And Pjaca seems extremely promising. One of the most exciting offensive talent in Europe.

We have 4 beasts of defenders and will have a very good central midfield. There is no need to have defensive wingers. Again look at the wingers of our competitors. You have bale, Ronaldo, Neymar, Messi, Robben, Ribery/Costa. You want to turn Dybala into a winger and a defensive winger on the other side and want to compete with those teams on a regular basis. We shouldn't play as offensive as our competitors until we have wingers that would make our attack great. 4-3-3 wont happen. Even 4-4-2 is better, at least Dybala and Higuain are both in their positions.

 

[zizinho]

@Hist whats the point of comparing our wingers to the 3 top clubs when we don't play in a formation that uses them. All 3 of these teams play a 433, they all have (Bayern when Robbery is fit) a WC front trio, we play a 352 and have a WC front two, backed by WC wingbacks. If we were to play a 442 the difference between us and those 3 teams would be that we have 2 WC strikers ahead of our wingers so Cuadrado and Pjaca not being as good offensively as the best 6 wingers in the world wouldnt be a big deal

 

[Hist]

@Hist whats the point of comparing our wingers to the 3 top clubs when we don't play in a formation that uses them. All 3 of these teams play a 433, they all have (Bayern when Robbery is fit) a WC front trio, we play a 352 and have a WC front two, backed by WC wingbacks. If we were to play a 442 the difference between us and those 3 teams would be that we have 2 WC strikers ahead of our wingers so Cuadrado and Pjaca not being as good offensively as the best 6 wingers in the world wouldnt be a big deal

I was addressing the guy that said we should play 4-3-3 with Dybala on the left and Cuadrado on the right. I even said 4-4-2 would be better precisely because we would have 2 strikers up front in their positions for attacking power not just the wingers.

Having said that, 4-4-2 is still not strong enough. You are acting like you know Pjaca's quality when we we dont even know if he can be as good as Cuadrado. But even assuming he is as good, our wingers would still be of a level lower than any other spot in our starting 11. I dont see any of our competitors having players of Cuadrado level playing in an essential role like wingers. Koman would be that player at Bayern if Robben is gone.

We have world class quality everywhere else in the squad. We are one CM away from having a complete 4-3-1-2, either by buying a CAM or a CM. 4-3-1-2 was effective, is a minor transition from the way we are used to play and the players available on the market make it much easier to complete than 4-4-2 and 4-4-3. We have witsel on his way as a CM, there are players like Isco, James, Oscar, Payet, Draxler (his agent said he wants us again btw), all who seem transferable and would slot in the 4-3-1-2 easily. That is not to mention that our bench for it would be set as well.

We don't have WC wingers for the starting 11 and even if those 2 are somehow good enough, we dont have a bench either. You'd have to resort to playing Alves and Sandro as your wingers.

IMO 4-3-1-2 makes most sense when Chisio is back, (especially if Witsel comes) as our main formation. 3-5-2 and 4-4-2 as back up formations for tactical shifts, this way we dont need to spend heavily on wingers that arent on the market. Ideally, Witsel in the winter, and Draxler in the summer.

Alves - Bonnucci - Chiellini - Sandro
Khedira - Marchisio - Witsel
Pjanic
Dybala - Higuain

And when Draxler is bought, deploy him as CAM, push witsel or Khedira to the bench. and let Pjanic take their spot. That way even if we do want to play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3, you can throw Draxler on one side and Cuadrado on the other without playing fullbacks as wingers or relying on some unproven kid.

- - - Updated - - -

Which is why I start to lay the blame on the others in management as well... Have they became so blind that they cannot see such obvious weakness? More CMs aren't the answer, pjanic can't play amc, even if he could, we would have no sub for him, we also need more wingers so we aren't limited to just 2 personnel.

It's shocking for a club like us that the last notable attacking midfielder we had was zidane, 15 years ago...

Part of the blame lies on calcio culture as well, because many teams have the same pattern as ours, there are clear lack of wingers and attacking mids in the league as well, while probably most all other leagues in the world have them.

Again what wingers do you have in mind that we should have bought or can still buy now? I can only think of Payet, Mahrez and Carrasco that can be seriously good and arent in very rich clubs. Even Bayern had to pay out of the ass for a completely unproven Koman and kinda lucked out with Costa.

 

[ADP1897]

Which is why I start to lay the blame on the others in management as well... Have they became so blind that they cannot see such obvious weakness? More CMs aren't the answer, pjanic can't play amc, even if he could, we would have no sub for him, we also need more wingers so we aren't limited to just 2 personnel.

It's shocking for a club like us that the last notable attacking midfielder we had was zidane, 15 years ago...

Part of the blame lies on calcio culture as well, because many teams have the same pattern as ours, there are clear lack of wingers and attacking mids in the league as well, while probably most all other leagues in the world have them.

Yea, because Trequartista isn't Calcio terms for AMc

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[zizinho]

Pjaca has been followed by us for a few years and we broke the Croatian league record to sign him. he impressed me whenever I saw him play so far. Enough reason to be convinced hes gonna turn into a WC winger.

As for the 4312, im not sure it's a possible primary formation at this point. Licht and Evra are about to leave, so wed need 2 fullbacks (wed need only 1 wingback if 352 stays), we have 5 CBs that will all be here next season most likely, we have 7 CMs of which 1-3 will leave (Asa + maybe one or both of Hernanes, Khedira, wed get a free Witsel tho). If Mandzukic leaves atleast one striker is needed depending on how you see Pjaca in a 4312, and then there is Cuadrado who will likely also be here + lets not forget Berardi who maybe will be bought if he doesent reject us again. Replacing these guys alone will cost and take quite the time so i dont think we could make a 4312 based squad over one summer right now

Draxler would be amazing for sure and would allow us to play 4312 as well as 433 with Pjaca, Cuadrado or Berardi, but i dont think we will ditch the 352 atleast until Barzagli retires