Massimiliano Allegri (223 Viewers)

[Zacheryah]

That is all right, he can do all that..but when was the last time you saw him have two long shots in one game for example? He can create a goal from thin air yet we got him guarding the left flank..dont need to remind you we need to score now. Free pogba up let him run at that defence, press early, with his strength and vision he can open up thier box too..we got enough field readers and defenders let our awesome freak loose upon that $hitty defence is all.

We cant "free up pogba", as we need him to get forward in the first place

 

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[JuveE46]

Lichtseiner, Cuadrado, Evra and Alex Sandro are exactly the kind of "wingers" one should field in a 3-5-2.

We have three basic formations that we are able to play with some familiarity and should absolutely stick with those. Learning a whole new formation with new roles for many players takes months to master and still there would be small nuances that will take even more time.

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He pretty much has at least two long shots in every game usually it's more like six nowadays. I have no doubt Pogba would do well higher up the pitch also but his best position is CM where he can have a bigger impact on the game. He has the lungs and the legs to be an attacking threat even when he has defensive responsibilities. Against Bayern in the second half his overall position was more or less what we call an AM but still everybody defends against Bayern even the strikers. There were many times when Mandzukic was covering that same left flank defensively even ending near our own corner flag.

At least you know HOW to argue a point which is the whole point in here anyway. Got licht, Sandro and evra, field cuad at wing against an able team and get r@pd from that wing period. Now as far as 3-5-2 and licht and evra, they are NOT the type of wingers to play 3-5-2 against Bayern, in series A Yes they can, again CL against BM completely different story. Out of those only Sandro is decent enough for the job. As far as learning new roles, how easy do you think the current abomination of 4-4-2 we play is to understand? To field a 4-4-2 which is really 41212, wheres the wing quality? Dybala still has to act as a winger at times, pogba still has to come forward plus have midfield duties defend the left and be all over really..there no point, we've already complicated things unnecessarily..concentrate pogbas strenghts and running ability towards attacking is a must.he has 6 shots a game when? I'm taking about playing BM and CL when has he had 6 shots against chievo or what? Lol

 

[il brutto]

I do agree that we still clearly lack understanding with our new formation but still it doesn't make sense to me to try another formation that we will be even less familiar with. If Pereyra finds form the 4-3-1-2 formation would be my choice as it worked very well for us last season. Pereyra is also very good on the counter only worry would be not being able to fit Cuadrado in.

 

[Karim30]

His formation is garbage, and i'm not referring to him using morata in it, thats about the only thing that makes sense, but the fact we wouldnt use mandzukic. Allow me to explain.


Everyone always looks at Guardiola's team and mesmerises just about everything except the key part. The central axis.


Guardiola's phylosophy, is to keep the team extremely wide, and forcing them not to help the centre, but to assume and rely on them winning the duels and freeing themselves. He puts a rather good zonal pressing to back it up in case that player does lose the ball, its difficult to gain from it.

As a huge fan, you might find it odd to hear it from me, but Allegri massively disappointed me in the first leg. He is supposed to be good at anticipating Guardiola's style, and completely missed the ball with his tactics. And formation.


Forget about the wide players, about the forward runs from the am line, from the potent striker. Its all about that centre axis. Guardiola changed his formation over the years, but the phylosophy remains the same. Wingers stay very wide, and the central players must make it to the final third on their own, the opponent will either keep check of the wings and face trough balls to the forward and penetrating run of one of the am's, or they'll stay compact, in wich case they'll do two passes and then cross it to the completely free winger on the other side, who doubles up with either the penetrating am, or striker, again outnumbering the cb's.


If you are going to sit back and allow the central midfield to pass it all the way to 5 meters from the penalty box, you will get shafted. They'll do that, and keep passing back and forth, untill there is some space between fulback and centreback, they'll switch to the wide player who's cutting inside, and an am or the striker will go between the fullback and centreback, the other am roams (mostly muller) and you concede. Our first goal, that muller position, is standard.


How do you play against it ? Well, this is where you miss vidal. You need to put huge zonal aggression in the center. talking about 30 meters diameter, and from your box to 10 meters behind the midfield. You need 2 players consistantly pressing the cm's close so they cant just pass it to your box and pick out the inside cutting winger or penetrating am. You need 1 midfielder and 1 centreback (ideal with a 3cb defence) to cover the space behind the hunting players. You need 1 striker to drop off and continiousl harrass the midfielder who falls back deep. You need very good wingbacks who have huge stamina and put up a fight, so you can track their wingers quickly enough.

Spain in 2012 played a sorta similar style, Italy in the first game played 3-5-2 and very high pressure, with alot of duel power centrally, making it hard for spain to combine trough and reach wide players. Now spain didnt have a true forward, you cant do this vs bayern cause they'll start trying to get lewandowski or an inside winger trough the offside trap. You need to sit deeper, but keep enormous pressure in that central box. dont sit on your backline, move it up abit, just far enough that its not too easy to play it over the defence. Allegri, should $#@!ing know this. He deployed a similar tactic versus barcelona (guardiola's) a few years ago. Sit deep, have 2 players and a forward press, rotate who presses, and you get trouble.


Juve will have significantly increased chances with the return of Chiellini and especially sandro. Sturaro must start

Buffon

Barzagli, bonucci, chiellini

Cuadrado, sturaro, marchisio, pogba, sandro

dybala, mandzukic



See, bayern has a godlike offence. So if you just attack that, you'll get arsenal'd. You need to counter their gameplan first, and move from there.

Cuadrado and Sandro will have to work very hard, be quick enough to pick up robben and costa


Dybala needs to continiously pressure the defenders and Mandzukic aswel, but mandzukic needs to keep pressing vidal, because they'll play it back if they cant go forward. Pogba and Sturaro needs to put huge zonal pressure in the center.

Marchisio needs to cover the space behind the cm's, and chiellini or barzagli needs to step out in case something gets trough. both cuadrado and sandro need to keep relatively tight, but race to jockey the wide players when they get a pass.


When we recover the ball, the closest wingback must sprint forward immediatly, 2 cm's back it up and both strikers aswel. Take a yellow if they can recounter.





This is the only way to play against bayern. If you play offensive, they'll beat you with superior offensive. If you sit back, they'll remind you they are the single best team at murdering teams that sit back.



I really hope Allegri doesnt fail again.

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The final 30 minutes of the game, Juventus was putting huge pressure down the center, and their wingers got tired (costa cause omfg cuadrado, and robben cause robben). As a consequence, bayern had difficulties building, and we were winning the duels (key to this).

Now you cant start with pressure that high, Robben, lewandowski,Muller and Costa will have a field day on counters, but you sit reasonably deep and put that very aggression in the center. Win duels in the center, press the cm that drops deep, play cuads and sandro behind their wingbacks and outnumber them.

The only thing that I would change is that we must begin with licht for the first hour and then put cuadrado in the final 30 minutes, and later on Morata

 

[Hist]

Lol why is it a complete mess? Wtf we got to lose? Ok you're right keep playing 3-5-2 and keep using Italy vs Spain as example 3-5-2 works blah blah..any such comparison is moronic because Spain players are a meter shorter than Italy players were for one and second anyone remember how that match went? Italy barely nullfied Spain..and italy was perfect tactically too...so was that good outcome? Idk people argue it worked great..
I have no argument against playing 3-5-2 except we do NOT have proper wingers for it..some people here even compare CL with the league and say it works fine in the league therefore use it in CL..those people should support rugby instead lol

Asamoah/Evra and Licht are defensive wingbacks. Caudrado and Sandro are offensive wingbacks. How on earth do we not have the proper players for 3-5-2?

 

[Post Ironic]

No wingbacks in the squad

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

This was a very winnable game and that first 60 minutes from Allegri completely screwed us of any chance to win the game. For a coach of his experience I am still surprised he went with parking the bus for so long. We had no counter attack to get up the pitch quick enough so it was never going to work.

If he had of started Morata instead of Mandzukic we at least would have had a counter attack so I wouldn't really criticise him too much. How ever we now have a mountain to climb in Munich to go through.

I hope we can knock them out but i would give Bayern a 65% chance to go through in the second leg. It's not impossible but it will be very difficult.

No it wasn't.

 

[Vialli_92]

No it wasn't.

Why wasn't it?

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Why wasn't it?

Because they are the 2nd best team in Europe and are much stronger than us. Even with a makeshift defence, their midfield and attack is superb, there is no way we can go and dominate them for 90 mins. Infact, playing an open/attacking game from the start could have meant us losing the game.

If you said this about Real Madrid I might have agreed. But we always struggle against teams that possess the ball (and press like maniacs) like Bayern. This was always going to be a very complicated tie, and one that we were always going to struggle in. Let's just hope we get a lot of luck in the second leg, Bayern still have a lot of injuries, and we get an early goal as well.

 

[Vialli_92]

Because they are the 2nd best team in Europe and are much stronger than us. Even with a makeshift defence, their midfield and attack is superb, there is no way we can go and dominate them for 90 mins. Infact, playing an open/attacking game from the start could have meant us losing the game.

If you said this about Real Madrid I might have agreed. But we always struggle against teams that possess the ball (and press like maniacs) like Bayern. This was always going to be a very complicated tie, and one that we were always going to struggle in. Let's just hope we get a lot of luck in the second leg, Bayern still have a lot of injuries, and we get an early goal as well.

They didn't seem that impressive. They scored an offside goal and a complete wonder goal from Robben.

Letting them have free possession and not pressing them for the first 60 minutes was a very naive approach to make.

As soon as we pressured their weak defence they started to get scared and drop deeper.

It was a very winnable match and like you said we will need luck in Munich to beat them because they will be relentless on home soil with less injuries for 90 minutes.

 

[Hydde]

4-3-1-2 with Pogba as AM is what you should be looking for. And if anyone drifts left on occasion should be Morata not Dybala (who is better cutting in from right on occasion).

That is all right, he can do all that..but when was the last time you saw him have two long shots in one game for example? He can create a goal from thin air yet we got him guarding the left flank..dont need to remind you we need to score now. Free pogba up let him run at that defence, press early, with his strength and vision he can open up thier box too..we got enough field readers and defenders let our awesome freak loose upon that $hitty defence is all.

Allegri listen to this men....please let pogba attack!!

They didn't seem that impressive. They scored an offside goal and a complete wonder goal from Robben.

Letting them have free possession and not pressing them for the first 60 minutes was a very naive approach to make.

As soon as we pressured their weak defence they started to get scared and drop deeper.

It was a very winnable match and like you said we will need luck in Munich to beat them because they will be relentless on home soil with less injuries for 90 minutes.

this and this

 

[Zacheryah]

Yes let the only player who could actually hold a ball play much higher. I cant see what can possibly go wrong.


Yes, lets attack a better offensive team at home, i cant see what can possibly go wrong




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Seriously Hydde, you should watch arsenal. You will be thrilled

 

[Vlad]

Because they are the 2nd best team in Europe and are much stronger than us. Even with a makeshift defence, their midfield and attack is superb, there is no way we can go and dominate them for 90 mins. Infact, playing an open/attacking game from the start could have meant us losing the game.

If you said this about Real Madrid I might have agreed. But we always struggle against teams that possess the ball (and press like maniacs) like Bayern. This was always going to be a very complicated tie, and one that we were always going to struggle in. Let's just hope we get a lot of luck in the second leg, Bayern still have a lot of injuries, and we get an early goal as well.

Nah, the difference between the teams is mostly in mentality. They are more accustomed to being in a front seat and winning big European games. Their players are more confident. Apart from their attack and even that is debatable they don't have more quality in other areas of the pitch.

 

[napoleonic]

Go with standard 352 with sandro and litch on wings, mandzu dybala front

Pressing or not the most important point is to play direct long balls to mandzu dybala that need to be instructed to attack bayern's wings be it right or left, rotate the flanks

Long ball to mandzu, then he need to hold the ball and do quick one two to dybala who attack empty space nearby

Or

Try to beat the offside line directly with whoever can make runs from the deep

This was exactly how italy played against spain in that opening of euro

 

[kao_ray]

Nah, the difference between the teams is mostly in mentality. They are more accustomed to being in a front seat and winning big European games. Their players are more confident. Apart from their attack and even that is debatable they don't have more quality in other areas of the pitch.

Without a doubt they have more quality options upfront. Lewandowski is a rare World class striker, Robben is an experienced WC wing, Costa and Ribbery are amazing too, Muller is also a very good player for them. Mandzukic, Dybala, Morata, Zaza, Cuadrado, Pereyra are not so far away from them, but the overall quality upfront is on their side.

With everything else I completely agree. They have a champion mentality and they should be proud with it. We need to be more confident, but we need experience to get there. The game with Bayern has upped our confidence for sure.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Nah, the difference between the teams is mostly in mentality. They are more accustomed to being in a front seat and winning big European games. Their players are more confident. Apart from their attack and even that is debatable they don't have more quality in other areas of the pitch.

Dude it's not just the mentality. Their squad is insanely good. They play a type of football that always troubles us. We really don't come up against teams of their level very often. Real Madrid, for example, have excellent individuals too, but they don't play anywhere near as cohesive as these guys. They are just tough to beat.

That's not to say I think our players are gonna throw the towel in at Munich. Far from it, we still have a chance,but it's going to be extraordinarily hard.

 

[Vlad]

Dude it's not just the mentality. Their squad is insanely good. They play a type of football that always troubles us. We really don't come up against teams of their level very often. Real Madrid, for example, have excellent individuals too, but they don't play anywhere near as cohesive as these guys. They are just tough to beat.

That's not to say I think our players are gonna throw the towel in at Munich. Far from it, we still have a chance,but it's going to be extraordinarily hard.

Unlike ours? Come on now. You're vastly underestimating our team, while overestimating theirs. They aren't much stronger, clearly Juve can play on par with them as seen in the last 30 minutes of the game when we broke from the shell.

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Without a doubt they have more quality options upfront. Lewandowski is a rare World class striker, Robben is an experienced WC wing, Costa and Ribbery are amazing too, Muller is also a very good player for them. Mandzukic, Dybala, Morata, Zaza, Cuadrado, Pereyra are not so far away from them, but the overall quality upfront is on their side.

With everything else I completely agree. They have a champion mentality and they should be proud with it. We need to be more confident, but we need experience to get there. The game with Bayern has upped our confidence for sure.

Agreed, their only advantage is in the attack, the other areas like defense or midfield are pretty much equal.

 

[JuveJay]

Preeschool is really a disgusting word.

Pre-eschool? Sounds like the future.

 

[dolph]

Dude it's not just the mentality. Their squad is insanely good. They play a type of football that always troubles us. We really don't come up against teams of their level very often. Real Madrid, for example, have excellent individuals too, but they don't play anywhere near as cohesive as these guys. They are just tough to beat.

That's not to say I think our players are gonna throw the towel in at Munich. Far from it, we still have a chance,but it's going to be extraordinarily hard.

This. We have always been vulnerable to teams WHO are really good at pressuring us. Look at the games against Napoli this year, were we almost havent could not create a single goal scoring opportunity. This is because we dont have enough tecnical players on the field, who are able to hold on to the ball under hugh pressure and our defenders, except for Bonucci, panics under pressure which means that we cant play the ball from the back so we Loose posession all the time . We need to play a 3-5-2 in the second leg:
Barza-BonBon-Chiello
Cuad-Pereyra-Marchisio-Pogba-Alex Sandro
Mandzu-Dybala

We need to keep things tight at the back, find our moments to pressure them and hit them on the break. I think we need to realise that whether you play Khedira-Sturaro-Asamoah or Pereyra they are going to create chances and probably score more than once on the Allianz Arena. Therefore we need a formation that can hurt them on the break and exploit that their defence is not as strong as their offense and that they commite a lot of players in attack which makes them vulnerable to teams who are fast in transition.

 

[LiquidPLP]

Nah, the difference between the teams is mostly in mentality. They are more accustomed to being in a front seat and winning big European games. Their players are more confident. Apart from their attack and even that is debatable they don't have more quality in other areas of the pitch.

That confidence comes from their technical superiority to ours. Let's be honest here, we're a level below Barca and Bayern but none else. These two are really fantastic in the way they play, they score for fun and manage to get 60% of ball possession without even sweating (and closing down the opponents completely in the process). Their players don't panic when pressed, they still play their game. Besides their technical ability, they are really a well oiled machine and so is Barca. As B_Aus said, we really struggle against this type of opponents and while Madrid has superior players, they don't have a team, so they're not really superior to us as shown last season. Unfortunately Barca and Bayern are something else, the good thing is there are no other teams that are ahead of us bar those two.

We do stand a chance in the return leg but Allegri has to find a way handle the pressure they will give us once again. With their CBs coming back for the return leg we might have much more trouble scoring when they slow down (which the will, no team can press so hard for 90 mins). The only way is to handle the pressure and counter them, because I don't believe we can dominate them at Allianz.