Massimiliano Allegri (210 Viewers)

[abstract]

Using ball possession as a serious quality measurement is indeed pathetic. I get the so-called beauty aspect of it (even if I don't care) but football is about scoring goals, not keeping the ball. I consider xG, shots on target, etc as useful. Possession is useless if you swallow 4 goals and can't score yourself.

Possession is absolutely important, every modern top club tries to play possession football. Even if i agree possession is not everything, us struggling with mid table and bottom table clubs to keep possession is a serious problem, you just can't deny that. Having 10% possession against Fiorentina it the last 20 minutes is an insane stat to me.

When you play football that focuses on possession you generally create more chances, that's just a fact, and that's why modern football is played that way.

 

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[Dino_mk]

I didn't see Fiorentina dominating us. That's in your head.......

And apparently there is nothing in your head!

 

[U Picciriddu]

This ended up being a problem after the match

 

[Patrizi]

Possession is absolutely important, every modern top club tries to play possession football. Even if i agree possession is not everything, us struggling with mid table and bottom table clubs to keep possession is a serious problem, you just can't deny that. Having 10% possession against Fiorentina it the last 20 minutes is an insane stat to me.

When you play football that focuses on possession you generally create more chances, that's just a fact, and that's why modern football is played that way.

That's simplistic at best. Something else at worst. This comes off like you've never played a game of football in your life.

Real Madrid were playing at home yesterday. They certainly weren't trying to hold onto possession. Possession is a risk and reward. Real Madrid clearly didn't feel comfortable holding onto the ball yesterday and opted for sitting deep and counter. Meanwhile, City held onto the ball and conceded three goals on the counter.
In our case, we don't have players with enough technical ability to hold onto the ball. And if we try, we lose the ball in dangerous positions and concede right away.

Even if we had Guardiola as our coach, he wouldn't be able to make this team of ours keep possession. Football is about more than just setting up a tactic as if its Fifa. This is what most on this sub don't understand.

Fact of the matter is, our team isn't keeping possession because we have only one player capable and comfortable with the ball at his feet. We set up pretty well against Fiorentina and started the game in an aggressive way. Players have come forward and told us that going this deep wasn't what Allegri had set up. Fiorentina are just better equipped to hold onto the ball than we are, personnel wise. As soon as Fiorentina started pressing, and as soon as any team starts to press us, our lack of quality becomes evident.

I agree that we defended too deep. But I disagree on what, or who's fault it is.

The fact that people here can't see the forest for the trees is what one should expect from a forum full of amateur coach coaches.

This forum reminds me of the Arsenal fan base that wanted Wenger out because he couldn't find the same success with Iwobi and Walcott as he did with Henry and Bergkamp.

 

[Ventus]

I think what makes the second reign of Allegri feel worse than Sarri and Pirlo is that we simply expected better. 1st Allegri reign was golden.

 

[abstract]

That's simplistic at best. Something else at worst. This comes off like you've never played a game of football in your life.

Real Madrid were playing at home yesterday. They certainly weren't trying to hold onto possession. Possession is a risk and reward. Real Madrid clearly didn't feel comfortable holding onto the ball yesterday and opted for sitting deep and counter. Meanwhile, City held onto the ball and conceded three goals on the counter.
In our case, we don't have players with enough technical ability to hold onto the ball. And if we try, we lose the ball in dangerous positions and concede right away.

Even if we had Guardiola as our coach, he wouldn't be able to make this team of ours keep possession. Football is about more than just setting up a tactic as if its Fifa. This is what most on this sub don't understand.

Fact of the matter is, our team isn't keeping possession because we have only one player capable and comfortable with the ball at his feet. We set up pretty well against Fiorentina and started the game in an aggressive way. Players have come forward and told us that going this deep wasn't what Allegri had set up. Fiorentina are just better equipped to hold onto the ball than we are, personnel wise. As soon as Fiorentina started pressing, and as soon as any team starts to press us, our lack of quality becomes evident.

I agree that we defended too deep. But I disagree on what, or who's fault it is.

The fact that people here can't see the forest for the trees is what one should expect from a forum full of amateur coach coaches.

This forum reminds me of the Arsenal fan base that wanted Wenger out because he couldn't find the same success with Iwobi and Walcott as he did with Henry and Bergkamp.

Nobody is claiming that you can't adjust when you playing against a team that's better playing possession than you are, nobody is playing possession football against 2010 Barca. Stats don't lie, winning teams generally have high possession.
Guardiola would never lose possession against Fiorentina even with this team, that's just ridiculous.You can't possibly believe that more than half of the league is better equipped to hold onto the ball than we are.

 

[Patrizi]

Nobody is claiming that you can't adjust when you playing against a team that's better playing possession than you are, nobody is playing possession football against 2010 Barca. Stats don't lie, winning teams generally have high possession.
Guardiola would never lose possession against Fiorentina even with this team, that's just ridiculous.You can't possibly believe that more than half of the league is better equipped to hold onto the ball than we are.

Fair enough.. But that's the thing. I do.

Our defenders are all pretty insecure with the ball at their feet. Our midfielders as well. Cambiaso and McKennie I could argue are alright. But that's not enough.
Vlahovic is as equipped as a truck with the ball at his feet. And if Chiesa doesn't have a space to run into, he's pretty much useless.

I am absolutely certain that Guardiola wouldn't be able to make this team play possession based football.
Have you seen our team in practice? Especially during rondo? It's bad.

Take a good look at the quality of the passes during our next game. Think to yourself, could this team play short and quick passes under pressure. You'll quickly realise why we tend to sit deeper and deeper with every minute. It happens automatically as we lose the ball again, and again due to technical deficiencies

 

[abstract]

Fair enough.. But that's the thing. I do.

Our defenders are all pretty insecure with the ball at their feet. Our midfielders as well. Vlahovic is as equipped as a truck with the ball at his feet. And if Chiesa doesn't have a space to run into, he's pretty much useless.

I am absolutely certain that Guardiola wouldn't be able to make this team play possession based football.
Have you seen our team in practice? Especially during rondo? It's bad.

He def would not be able to play possession against top teams, but he definitely wouldn't struggle against teams like Fiorentina, that's hard to believe. Having 10% possession for 20 minutes against Fiorentina at home is crazy to me. I really hope our team is not that bad.

 

[Post Ironic]

Y’all still going on about this? He’s won twice in like a dozen matches. Including several against relegation type sides. It’s insane to suggest this team isn’t much better than this. He should be fired and should have been quite some time ago. Fingers crossed he can go out with something like Coppa and finishing 3rd to get us into CL before he’s sacked.

He had a great first tenure here and is one of the most successful coaches in club history because of it. He’s been complete ass since returning. Game has passed him by and he’s regressed his tactics entirely, hasn’t adapted in the slightest. It’s time for him to retire.

 

[Patrizi]

He def would not be able to play possession against top teams, but he definitely wouldn't struggle against teams like Fiorentina, that's hard to believe. Having 10% possession for 20 minutes against Fiorentina at home is crazy to me. I really hope our team is not that bad.

I think you're either overestimating the technical ability of our squad, or underestimating that of Fiorentina's.

Of course keeping 10% of the possession shouldn't be acceptable for Juventus. I agree. But that's a consequence of them pressing us, and our players not being able to play around it. Considering the form that we're in, and how important those three points were, It's understandable that players felt the need to kick the ball away and defend instead of maybe losing the ball in a dangerous position against their press. What's even more concerning is how we didn't even threaten them with long balls over their press. Even Locatelli admitted this much in post match interview.

The difference of quality between Fiorentina and Juventus isn't as big as you'd think. We're probably both europa league standard as it is.

 

[U Picciriddu]

The difference of quality between Fiorentina and Juventus isn't as big as you'd think. We're probably both europa league standard as it is.

Haha come on man

What about the difference between us and Genoa and Hellas?

 

[Patrizi]

Haha come on man

What about the difference between us and Genoa and Hellas?

It's larger. There are thousand variables to consider. What do you want to know? Should we be winning Verona and Genoa, yes.
Fiorentina are better than Verona and Genoa. Should Fiorentina win against Genoa yes. But football is variables.
A can be better than B, B can be better than C, and C can be better than A.

 

[U Picciriddu]

It's larger. There are thousand variables to consider. What do you want to know? Should we be winning Verona and Genoa, yes.
Fiorentina are better than Verona and Genoa. Should Fiorentina win against Genoa yes. But football is variables.
A can be better than B, B can be better than C, and C can be better than A.

That’s not what you were saying.

 

[Dino_mk]

That’s not what you were saying.

He is saying shits as wind blows. Wath ever is helping his narrative at that given moment.

Don't waste your time trying to have conversation with him.

 

[JuveJay]

Don't waste your time trying to have conversation with him.

But you've been doing it for so long. Please don't stop now.

 

[Dino_mk]

But you've been doing it for so long. Please don't stop now.

Me poking him can not be considered conversation!

 

[Juve92]

CUNT

 

[Robee]

Possession is absolutely important, every modern top club tries to play possession football. Even if i agree possession is not everything, us struggling with mid table and bottom table clubs to keep possession is a serious problem, you just can't deny that. Having 10% possession against Fiorentina it the last 20 minutes is an insane stat to me.

When you play football that focuses on possession you generally create more chances, that's just a fact, and that's why modern football is played that way.

Didn't say it's not important but it does not say anything about dominance at all. You can have 99% possession for all I care. If you don't have a sniff at my goal, I'm safe.

Of course it's a problem. It's probably the biggest problem in the squad. We have a team without any players capable of some ball retention. People were laughing at Jorgingo for years but he would've brought this to the team.

The last paragragh is not a fact at all. Better team usually have more of the possession, yes. But counter attacking squads can easily create more chances than the others too.

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Your use of xg is indeed pathetic. Fiorentina and us had the same number of shots on target. No I don't consider offsides goals as relevant because that's the fact but continue to believe your make believe facts and delusions. I don't give a fuck about useless possession. If we have 35% possession but ran our socks off and outdueled and outmuscled the opponents, you won't see any criticisms. But when it's so obviously bad to the point that we completely surrendered possession and risked conceding a goal had it not been for a good Tek save and add to that how our number of passes didn't even go beyond 200 passes, then that's revolting and concerning. But whatever man you do what makes you happy...

You're expanding 20 minutes into 90.
I'm sorry you don't count missed chances towards a goal without opponents. That's your loss.

We were awful at the end, that's not what I'm saying. But I couldn't care less about possession. Never have and never will. There are a lot of teams that always dominate possession. They end up losing too...

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Atletico giving a masterclass in how to play without much possession now btw.

 

[Juve-Fan-Iraq]

Didn't say it's not important but it does not say anything about dominance at all. You can have 99% possession for all I care. If you don't have a sniff at my goal, I'm safe.

Of course it's a problem. It's probably the biggest problem in the squad. We have a team without any players capable of some ball retention. People were laughing at Jorgingo for years but he would've brought this to the team.

The last paragragh is not a fact at all. Better team usually have more of the possession, yes. But counter attacking squads can easily create more chances than the others too.

- - - Updated - - -


You're expanding 20 minutes into 90.
I'm sorry you don't count missed chances towards a goal without opponents. That's your loss.

We were awful at the end, that's not what I'm saying. But I couldn't care less about possession. Never have and never will. There are a lot of teams that always dominate possession. They end up losing too...

- - - Updated - - -

Atletico giving a masterclass in how to play without much possession now btw.

You do you bud.

Ateltico don't just completely surrender possession and play aimless balls to kick the ball out for the hell of it. They also passed the ball more than we did by the 70th minute and they just finished first half. You're comparing a shiny turd to gold.

 

[magician]

The difference of quality between Fiorentina and Juventus isn't as big as you'd think. We're probably both europa league standard as it is.

If the difference isn't as big then we should've had something closer to 50:50 ball possession, no? Go ahead and move the goalposts again, we're waiting... LoL.