Massimiliano Allegri (261 Viewers)

[Post Ironic]

Guardiola is clearly overrated at this point. His teams have never exceeded expectations with the exception of Barca in 2008, maybe.

Bayern got worse when he arrived. He was destroyed in consecutive years by Barca and Madrid. Then lost to Atletico. Could other managers win the BL and then get destroyed in the CL? Yes.

So far at Man City, you have to say he is below expectation as well. Conte has come into the league with the same circumstances and is walking the league. Why? Because he is pragmatic. Guardiola is not. He plays his way and that's it. That's why Bravo is there and now Bravo is unplayable.

Conte just looked at Ranieri's work last year and concluded that any sensible, counter-attacking football would succeed immediately in the EPL. He even changed system a couple times to put his players in the best position possible. Meanwhile, Guardiola is asking fucking Stones and Otamendi to play as isolated CBs, initiating build up with the goalkeeper. Can he not recognize these players are not the same that he had at Barca?

He has an effective playing style in theory and in practice. But not always in practice.

You mean he got destroyed by the 2 teams that won the CL those years, and then lost to Atletico in a tight battle where his team just couldn't finish their chances?

And Conte failed to get out of the group stage here in 2013-14 with the best midfield and defense in football, and Tevez leading the attack. Does that make him clearly overrated?

What Pep did at Barca was 100% exceeding expectations. No one expects 2 Champion's League titles, 3 La Liga titles, and 2 Copa Del Rey Titles in 4 seasons when going head-to-head with a team with unlimited spending power like Real Madrid. That's pure nonsense.

Pep was a top coach for the last 8 years by any measuring stick. Is he one of the all-time greats? Not yet. But he's certainly a top coach.

 

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[lgorTudor]

No. A guy, who wears sneakers to a suit, is not classy.

That's Luis Enrique

 

[zizinho]

How exactly was Barca the best team when Guardiola inherited them? They finished 3rd in La Liga the season before he took over. And 2nd the season before plus were knocked out Rof16 CL.

You don't have to rate Guardiola as an all-time great, but he is certainly a top coach.

They were CL semifinalists the season before he took over. Got beaten 1-0 on aggregate by a Scholes screamer to the WC United team. A month later Xavi, Iniesta were Spains best players on their way to Euro victory. Messi was about to explode, so it was clear what needs to be done. Build the team around Xavi and Iniesta, make Messi their star forward and fix the defense (Puyol was great, Abidal too. They needed a CB and RB because Zambrotta flopped). Dani Alves was an obvious choice, best La Liga RB at that time and double UEFA Cup winners with Siviglia. They got Yaya and Keita for the DM role behind Xavi and Iniesta, later Busquets developed into their starting DM. Same with Pique, who replaced Marquez as the season progressed. Etoo and Henry were in great form and together with Messi were the deadliest attack in Europe. Real didnt do anything noteworthy in the mercato so that helped too. + They got HUGE help in CL vs Chelsea who should have won the CL that year with Hiddink. His truly great year was 2011, thats when Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and the tiki taka were at their peak. After that they declined and moved away from the tiki taka, especially now with Neymar and Suarez there

 

[Hængebøffer]

That's Luis Enrique

And Guardiola

 

[Osman]

This Pep bashing is ridiculous. I don't like the guy but playing down his accomplishments is just sad. I have no clue why people have this huge urge to put him down nowadays every time there is the slightest of reasons (that applies to fans and pundits).

He has done very well thus far in his career and personally wouldn't bet against him winning a lot more in the future. People too often let emotions and personal preference cloud their judgement on things and somehow many see Pep as some kind of devil that is trying to change the game they love so much. Arrogant? Yes. Stubborn? Yes. Then again which manager on some level isn't.

When everything clicks for him Pep plays a football thats truly marvellous to watch (the way they completely dominated Atletico first league last year, or us in first game, its staggering type of dominance), completely suffocates opponents and gets every ounce of all attacking players like no other coach can. So its certainly nothing to dislike (compared to Del Bosque tiki taka in spain, where litterally no one moved, just passed us to sleep) on its own, just that he became the best and most successful so he had incredible big overhyped reputation and didnt adapt his tactics to something else when biggiest opponents learned how to play him. The standards he is held on is higher then most coaches because of the insanely huge hype, and he needs to keep proving his mettle to uphold the standard of his gold standard like reputation he has gotten. So when he doesnt, like in CL (like its something a coach can win on cue or per automatic), yeah the knives will be sharpened and he will be taken down a notch by some. I get it, especially if the critic is rational and based on tactics, and based on the higher standard you hold on a coaches of his pedigree. But to compare him to or say he is inferior to Spaletti and Sarri is one THE WORST SHIT IN LONG TIME in this forum

 

[Hængebøffer]

How exactly was Barca the best team when Guardiola inherited them? They finished 3rd in La Liga the season before he took over. And 2nd the season before plus were knocked out Rof16 CL.

You don't have to rate Guardiola as an all-time great, but he is certainly a top coach.

Dude. Look at the players at their disposal. Guardiola was the motivator they needed.

 

[Post Ironic]

They were CL semifinalists the season before he took over. Got beaten 1-0 on aggregate by a Scholes screamer to the WC United team. A month later Xavi, Iniesta were Spains best players on their way to Euro victory. Messi was about to explode, so it was clear what needs to be done. Build the team around Xavi and Iniesta, make Messi their star forward and fix the defense (Puyol was great, Abidal too. They needed a CB and RB because Zambrotta flopped). Dani Alves was an obvious choice, best La Liga RB at that time and double UEFA Cup winners with Siviglia. They got Yaya and Keita for the DM role behind Xavi and Iniesta, later Busquets developed into their starting CB. Same with Pique, who replaced Marquez as the season progressed. Etoo and Henry were in great form and together with Messi were the deadliest attack in Europe. Real didnt do anything noteworthy in the mercato so that helped too. + They got HUGE help in CL vs Chelsea who should have won the CL that year with Hiddink. His truly great year was 2011, thats when Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and the tiki taka were at their peak. After that they declined and moved away from the tiki taka, especially now with Neymar and Suarez there

Your opinion on this is a joke and not worth responding to. The fact you don't recognize how extraordinary his record is so far, is proof of that.

 

[dolph]

Guardiola is clearly overrated at this point. His teams have never exceeded expectations with the exception of Barca in 2008, maybe.

Bayern got worse when he arrived. He was destroyed in consecutive years by Barca and Madrid. Then lost to Atletico. Could other managers win the BL and then get destroyed in the CL? Yes.

So far at Man City, you have to say he is below expectation as well. Conte has come into the league with the same circumstances and is walking the league. Why? Because he is pragmatic. Guardiola is not. He plays his way and that's it. That's why Bravo is there and now Bravo is unplayable.

Conte just looked at Ranieri's work last year and concluded that any sensible, counter-attacking football would succeed immediately in the EPL. He even changed system a couple times to put his players in the best position possible. Meanwhile, Guardiola is asking $#@!ing Stones and Otamendi to play as isolated CBs, initiating build up with the goalkeeper. Can he not recognize these players are not the same that he had at Barca?

He has an effective playing style in theory and in practice. But not always in practice.

Barca was a perfect fit for his philosophy, but he did an amazing job there. Dont see how you could argue otherwise. In Bayern he did well, but did not excide expectations and lacked that CL win to make his tenure a true succes. Ancelotti's Bayern team this year looks a lot weaker than Pep's last year despite it being the same team with few addition. Does that make Carlo overrated?
I agree on the unwillingness to adapt his philosophy, hence the limitations comment.

 

[Post Ironic]

Dude. Look at the players at their disposal. Guardiola was the motivator they needed.

Like Allegri was the motivator we needed?

 

[zizinho]

Only a complete dunce rates Ranieri with Guardiola. 30 years of managing and he's won 1 top flite league title.

There's stupid, and there's this.

Did you put Cusp glasses on, i didnt even mention Pep

But yeah, Ranieri is better. Pep would get relegated with Leicester

 

[Osman]

You rate Ranieri who managed to make both us and Inter underperform? It's just another instance of overreacting to a single season. Ranieri won at LC and sucked at pretty much all the big teams he coached.

Ranieri > Pep is just beyond laughable.

Ranieri has been the polite and nice uncle who is a journeyman loser, who just had a cinderella year thats it. Why are you taking fresh seriously on football? p Ranieri is not even a top coach, so shouldnt be compared to any top coach.

 

[Hængebøffer]

Like Allegri was the motivator we needed?

You could say, but we actually improved our offensive gameplay. Barca and Bayern were/are both one of the best teams in world, when Guardiola coached them

 

[Post Ironic]

:facepalm:
@Fr3sh

Look what you started, you filthy rotten schweinhund.

 

[zizinho]

Guardiola is clearly overrated at this point. His teams have never exceeded expectations with the exception of Barca in 2008, maybe.

Bayern got worse when he arrived. He was destroyed in consecutive years by Barca and Madrid. Then lost to Atletico. Could other managers win the BL and then get destroyed in the CL? Yes.

So far at Man City, you have to say he is below expectation as well. Conte has come into the league with the same circumstances and is walking the league. Why? Because he is pragmatic. Guardiola is not. He plays his way and that's it. That's why Bravo is there and now Bravo is unplayable.

Conte just looked at Ranieri's work last year and concluded that any sensible, counter-attacking football would succeed immediately in the EPL. He even changed system a couple times to put his players in the best position possible. Meanwhile, Guardiola is asking fucking Stones and Otamendi to play as isolated CBs, initiating build up with the goalkeeper. Can he not recognize these players are not the same that he had at Barca?

He has an effective playing style in theory and in practice. But not always in practice.

Conte came with worse circumstances. His team was 10th last season, Pep City was CL semifinalists and top4 Last season. On paper they are comparable but Chelsea was a bigger piece of work.

Agree with the rest

 

[Hængebøffer]

Barca was a perfect fit for his philosophy, but he did an amazing job there. Dont see how you could argue otherwise. In Bayern he did well, but did not excide expectations and lacked that CL win to make his tenure a true succes. Ancelotti's Bayern team this year looks a lot weaker than Pep's last year despite it being the same team with few addition. Does that make Carlo overrated?
I agree on the unwillingness to adapt his philosophy, hence the limitations comment.

It was Barca's philosophy and they schooled Pep. That's why he was a perfect fit.

 

[Post Ironic]

You could say, but we actually improved our offensive gameplay. Barca and Bayern were/are both one of the best teams in world, when Guardiola coached them

So, Pep taking the 3rd place team in La Liga and figuring out how to best utilize those players to win 3 league titles, 2 CL titles, and 2 Copa del Reys in 4 years isn't improving?

 

[MikeM]

You mean he got destroyed by the 2 teams that won the CL those years, and then lost to Atletico in a tight battle where his team just couldn't finish their chances?

And Conte failed to get out of the group stage here in 2013-14 with the best midfield and defense in football, and Tevez leading the attack. Does that make him clearly overrated?

What Pep did at Barca was 100% exceeding expectations. No one expects 2 Champion's League titles, 3 La Liga titles, and 2 Copa Del Rey Titles in 4 seasons when going head-to-head with a team with unlimited spending power like Real Madrid. That's pure nonsense.

Pep was a top coach for the last 8 years by any measuring stick. Is he one of the all-time greats? Not yet. But he's certainly a top coach.

I didn't say he wasn't a good coach. I said he was overrated. Before this season he was supposed to be the best coach in the world. Man City was supposed to win the league. When you compare him directly with Conte this year, you have to say he is falling short. If he is not discernibly better than Conte then he is overrated. Because he is supposed to be the best.

Of course he did a great job at Barcelona. That was quite a while ago unfortunately. Mourinho won the CL with Porto and hasn't adapted since then. The football world has reacted and Mourinho is nothing now. Guardiola is nowhere near a decline like Mourinho but at the same time the football world has adapted to him as well and so far he has not shown the ability to counter it in my opinion.

 

[BayernFan]

And Guardiola

Havent seen Pep wearing snickers to a suit. Only Enrique.

 

[Osman]

Pep underrating here is unbeliavable. Last year BM against Atlético in the alliance I watched one of the best unlucky performance ever. Worst half Atlético had in three years.

Indeed, Atletico are an underdog top team that I like to root on when they deserve it as a neautral, but fuck me did they not deserve to win those ties. Bayern completely molested them on every way in that first game, Atletico could barely play ANY football, and resorted to dirty as heck tactics. Mental collapse on a counter and great defensive organisation decided the game, not to mention the gazilion chances Bayern missed. But there was one side playing real football over those two ties, and it wasnt Atletico. Football can just be cruel like that sometimes. Lucky break for Atletico.

 

[zizinho]

they gone mad. Two of the strongest CVs in the history of the game (Pep and Mou) versus Spaletti and Sarri lol

We arent talking CVs, were talking coach vs coach in year 2017. The way I see it, Sarri and Spalletti are doing better with worse teams. Isnt that correct?