That was what I meant. If we get him on loan+set price, the set price would probably be higher than if we'd buy him outright now for the reason I mentioned.
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Martin Cáceres (7 Viewers)
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Just another pathetic attempt to put words in my mouth i never said, i ve already explained you what i meant there, right then, it was about Zebina's mistake!
And my answer to Alen's post also shows were i am standing.
I never said that they will be our starter it would be too absurd to even assume that,
why all the hate Jack?? You are struggling hard to defame and find non issues to put between us, but you never really gave me a reason about that...
And my answer to Alen's post also shows were i am standing.
I never said that they will be our starter it would be too absurd to even assume that,
why all the hate Jack?? You are struggling hard to defame and find non issues to put between us, but you never really gave me a reason about that...
I can't be bothered find the post of yours during the FRIENDLY match yesterday but once you said:
And here we are having defensive problems again, you said it as if you were so much aware of these problems. Then when questioned, you said that it's the system that WILL expose our players.
1- The defenders were Zebina - Grygera - Ariaduo - Salihamidzic
2- The midfielders were Poulsen Zanetti Tiago
3- It was our second match of the pre-fucking-season.
4- You insist that the defensive problems that you preach are there.
5- When questioned you say that the system WILL expose our players
How do you know that is something I am not willing to know but whatever psychedelic substance you intake, I would like to try.
Hate? I don't hate you, I just can't stand your negativity that is based on analysis of headlines and article titles.
And here we are having defensive problems again, you said it as if you were so much aware of these problems. Then when questioned, you said that it's the system that WILL expose our players.
1- The defenders were Zebina - Grygera - Ariaduo - Salihamidzic
2- The midfielders were Poulsen Zanetti Tiago
3- It was our second match of the pre-fucking-season.
4- You insist that the defensive problems that you preach are there.
5- When questioned you say that the system WILL expose our players
How do you know that is something I am not willing to know but whatever psychedelic substance you intake, I would like to try.
Hate? I don't hate you, I just can't stand your negativity that is based on analysis of headlines and article titles.
I don't know if it's entirely based on fantasy and bombastic headlines, but Jack does have a point here Cron.
You use, very often, such unrealistic rumors to make your (pessimistic) points stronger.
The rumor "Cassano to Juve" develops in your posts from "We don't need Cassano" to "Why are we going to sacrifice our 5 year plan to buy just another attacker", through "Now we won't buy defenders" and " Why did we buy Iaquinta at all when we're buying Cassano" just so in the end it becomes "Now that it's a done deal and we're certainly buying Cassano because Elkan loves him, we won't buy the players we need and we'll be lucky to finsih in top 3"
You use, very often, such unrealistic rumors to make your (pessimistic) points stronger.
The rumor "Cassano to Juve" develops in your posts from "We don't need Cassano" to "Why are we going to sacrifice our 5 year plan to buy just another attacker", through "Now we won't buy defenders" and " Why did we buy Iaquinta at all when we're buying Cassano" just so in the end it becomes "Now that it's a done deal and we're certainly buying Cassano because Elkan loves him, we won't buy the players we need and we'll be lucky to finsih in top 3"
So zebina made a mistake in an experimental second preseason game. You seem as though its a crime to make mistakes. Everyone makes them but as soon as it is one of our defenders then suddenly our world is crashing. What will happen whem chiellini or buffon make a mistake. Will you scald them as well?
Then dont bother quoting me at all, PLEASE!!!
Because thats not what i said and thats not what i meant, i see not reason and no interest to keep on with this personal conflict you are struggling to create between us!!
I never said that this is going to be our starter backline, nor did i meant that.
To stress that out "
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahimovic9 View Post
Zebina had a great half until that moment where he got raped and Nancy scored.
Exactly, he had a good game, but still, he is just Zebina...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCK View Post
Yes because we will be fielding Zebina Grygera Ariaudo Salihamidzic as our starting defenders.
Our system will expose them, we can already see that from now and we are expecting great things from Zebi, dont we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
Grygera--Ariaudo central defence is not our start cd duo. One is not a cd, other is inexperienced.
True that, but thats now why i am worried, i see no support from our flanks.
Cheillini and Canna would a lot more solid but the back includes 4players and they are not fast enough to be everywhere.
We still conceded easy goals, just like the one a very probable starter (Zebina) conceded.
Canna wouldnt be in a position to do nothing at this particular, at his age to prevent that from happening.
We have already seen how we are going to concede some silly goals...
Hopefully Melo and Sissoko will prevent most of those from happening...
Your answer was answered right there!!
I m sure that you have red that post because you quoted it.
I was referring to Zebina and they way we conceded, not to Ariaudo, Grygera, Salih!! But you keep trying to put words in my mouth, even though i ve posted this:
Your post about my view, was not only unneeded, but misleading too.
It was not the first time that you have tried to take words out of context and twist my posts and their meaning, in order to defame me.
This is a continuous effort, that spans out for a long time now...
without a particularly good reason or opportunity...
I asked you personally and publically to stop this, but you still go on...
Often?? Jack has succeeded to put me against you Alen.
Apart from the Cassano ex, which is not entirely made up, as
-Elkann has always claimed that he want him and
-he also claimed that he will step forward this year and we
- would also follow the pattern of not investing at the defense and make more a la Amauri acquisitions,
-esp if we were selling Treze, as expected by everyone.
-DP was growing older
-We had the money to buy him
(i wonder what makes this unrealistic, esp at that time??? and how do you know it wont happen anyway and we didnt already made a pre-deal for him?)
It was probable and i only used that argumentation in threads considering him and his transfer. I did not exaggerated as Jack presented it...
There are little to no other examples, other than Jacks personal efforts to defame me and twist my posts and meaning. Just like it happened right now, when he claimed that i said that Zebi-Grygera-Ariaudo-Salih will be our starter back-line...
I never said, i never even implied that, but he might also use it in the future, probably adding some words ("were are doomed") i never said, or taken out of context, either to dramatize it, stress it and make it look more rediculous.
This is a rhetorical tactic to undermine the opposition debater, if you have nothing to send against his argumentation...
Its just cheap and can only impress on forums...
Being your friend and abusing each and every opportunity he has to defame me, has finally made an impact here!! He was always stressed out the differences between me and and public opinion and ignored the bulk of my arguments, in order to achieve that.
What he cant face with reason, he tried to twist with mockery. I m surprised that it had an impact even to you Alen, as i consider you a man that do has the integrity to go past that and make your own judgement, based on your own conclusions!!
I thought that you were not one of the members that encourage light-mockery posts and appreciate reasoning and arguments. Maybe you are and its just Jack's influence, or maybe i just overestimated the forum's capacity of making discussions, beyond the "Forza Zebina!!" or "Forza Juve" limits...
Its ok, i see the need to support your friend here... but please dont feed the troll next time!
It is defensive lapse we have seen again from Zebi.
I mistake repeated under different coaches and formations.
A mistake very probable to happen again, considering that this defense is one of the worst we ever had and the new offensive formation (no 2DMs and two defensive wingers), will expose them even more and make it even more probable to happen.
We know that Zebi has his limitations and will also know that Grygera has his and we will soon see Canna's too.
We have a known and persistent weakness, (the quality of our defense) we paid that weakness many times already and as long we ignore it, it will still haunt our team and drag the rest of them lower that it should.
Whats wrong with wanting that fixed??
The world is not crashing, we made some progress, but we are not complete.
And to compete with the best with more chances, we have to be!!
Our weakness is there for everyone to see it and exploit it. When and if we want to make the next step forward and become competitive, we must fix this!
With Melo, we now have one more weapon to mask that weakness, but that doesnt mean that it isnt there. I ve been saying that from the beginning of the season, but it only became obvious to the majority of the forum, by the last part of the championship.
Personally i dont like ignoring problems and just hope for the best.
I prefer to fix them or have them fixed, or at least try to do so!
This issue may not be fatal in the end, but it has the potential to be critical, why would we take the risk?
In a long season, the circumstances that will unmask this issue are likely to re-appear. And even if they dont, even masked, this issue still affects our performance, esp at the most competitive levels.
Why would we play with that handicap, if we have the option not to??
This is what i am pointing out here and this is why i ve been considering it a priority for the past 3 years. I will also hope for the best like every Juventino (even Jack) , BUT without the delusional hopes... as i cannot ignore such an important issue that holds us back...
Because thats not what i said and thats not what i meant, i see not reason and no interest to keep on with this personal conflict you are struggling to create between us!!
I never said that this is going to be our starter backline, nor did i meant that.
To stress that out "
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahimovic9 View Post
Zebina had a great half until that moment where he got raped and Nancy scored.
Exactly, he had a good game, but still, he is just Zebina...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCK View Post
Yes because we will be fielding Zebina Grygera Ariaudo Salihamidzic as our starting defenders.
Our system will expose them, we can already see that from now and we are expecting great things from Zebi, dont we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
Grygera--Ariaudo central defence is not our start cd duo. One is not a cd, other is inexperienced.
True that, but thats now why i am worried, i see no support from our flanks.
Cheillini and Canna would a lot more solid but the back includes 4players and they are not fast enough to be everywhere.
We still conceded easy goals, just like the one a very probable starter (Zebina) conceded.
Canna wouldnt be in a position to do nothing at this particular, at his age to prevent that from happening.
We have already seen how we are going to concede some silly goals...
Hopefully Melo and Sissoko will prevent most of those from happening...
Your answer was answered right there!!
I m sure that you have red that post because you quoted it.
I was referring to Zebina and they way we conceded, not to Ariaudo, Grygera, Salih!! But you keep trying to put words in my mouth, even though i ve posted this:
Your post about my view, was not only unneeded, but misleading too.
It was not the first time that you have tried to take words out of context and twist my posts and their meaning, in order to defame me.
This is a continuous effort, that spans out for a long time now...
without a particularly good reason or opportunity...
I asked you personally and publically to stop this, but you still go on...
Often?? Jack has succeeded to put me against you Alen.
Apart from the Cassano ex, which is not entirely made up, as
-Elkann has always claimed that he want him and
-he also claimed that he will step forward this year and we
- would also follow the pattern of not investing at the defense and make more a la Amauri acquisitions,
-esp if we were selling Treze, as expected by everyone.
-DP was growing older
-We had the money to buy him
(i wonder what makes this unrealistic, esp at that time??? and how do you know it wont happen anyway and we didnt already made a pre-deal for him?)
It was probable and i only used that argumentation in threads considering him and his transfer. I did not exaggerated as Jack presented it...
There are little to no other examples, other than Jacks personal efforts to defame me and twist my posts and meaning. Just like it happened right now, when he claimed that i said that Zebi-Grygera-Ariaudo-Salih will be our starter back-line...
I never said, i never even implied that, but he might also use it in the future, probably adding some words ("were are doomed") i never said, or taken out of context, either to dramatize it, stress it and make it look more rediculous.
This is a rhetorical tactic to undermine the opposition debater, if you have nothing to send against his argumentation...
Its just cheap and can only impress on forums...
Being your friend and abusing each and every opportunity he has to defame me, has finally made an impact here!! He was always stressed out the differences between me and and public opinion and ignored the bulk of my arguments, in order to achieve that.
What he cant face with reason, he tried to twist with mockery. I m surprised that it had an impact even to you Alen, as i consider you a man that do has the integrity to go past that and make your own judgement, based on your own conclusions!!
I thought that you were not one of the members that encourage light-mockery posts and appreciate reasoning and arguments. Maybe you are and its just Jack's influence, or maybe i just overestimated the forum's capacity of making discussions, beyond the "Forza Zebina!!" or "Forza Juve" limits...
Its ok, i see the need to support your friend here... but please dont feed the troll next time!
It is defensive lapse we have seen again from Zebi.
I mistake repeated under different coaches and formations.
A mistake very probable to happen again, considering that this defense is one of the worst we ever had and the new offensive formation (no 2DMs and two defensive wingers), will expose them even more and make it even more probable to happen.
We know that Zebi has his limitations and will also know that Grygera has his and we will soon see Canna's too.
We have a known and persistent weakness, (the quality of our defense) we paid that weakness many times already and as long we ignore it, it will still haunt our team and drag the rest of them lower that it should.
Whats wrong with wanting that fixed??
The world is not crashing, we made some progress, but we are not complete.
And to compete with the best with more chances, we have to be!!
Our weakness is there for everyone to see it and exploit it. When and if we want to make the next step forward and become competitive, we must fix this!
With Melo, we now have one more weapon to mask that weakness, but that doesnt mean that it isnt there. I ve been saying that from the beginning of the season, but it only became obvious to the majority of the forum, by the last part of the championship.
Personally i dont like ignoring problems and just hope for the best.
I prefer to fix them or have them fixed, or at least try to do so!
This issue may not be fatal in the end, but it has the potential to be critical, why would we take the risk?
In a long season, the circumstances that will unmask this issue are likely to re-appear. And even if they dont, even masked, this issue still affects our performance, esp at the most competitive levels.
Why would we play with that handicap, if we have the option not to??
This is what i am pointing out here and this is why i ve been considering it a priority for the past 3 years. I will also hope for the best like every Juventino (even Jack) , BUT without the delusional hopes... as i cannot ignore such an important issue that holds us back...
martin would be a good signing. especialy on loan. its a win - win situation. he has played 1-2 good seasons in spain so he is not totally unproven. that shows some potential in him.
in barca he did not well, but he was not given many chances. this doesn't say anything about his quality, it says just that pepe doesn't want him in his team, something that may be good for us.
i would go for him. he may be the next montero, he may be a decent backup, he may be a flop. if we sign him on loan we have nothing to be afraid of...
go for him and we will have one of the best squads ever...
in barca he did not well, but he was not given many chances. this doesn't say anything about his quality, it says just that pepe doesn't want him in his team, something that may be good for us.
i would go for him. he may be the next montero, he may be a decent backup, he may be a flop. if we sign him on loan we have nothing to be afraid of...
go for him and we will have one of the best squads ever...
And you are right you didn't say that Zebina, Grygera, Ariaudo and Sali will be our starters but that would have been great compared to what you said:
You believe that our defence is Zebina, Grygera, Ariaudo and Sali because that was the defence that was playing yesterday, that's where your comment came from and that's what you expect from these players. You simply disregarded the friendly, the bench that was playing in both defence and midfield.
Now go find me the quote where Elkann said that we will use the same pattern of transfers, ignoring the defence and buying a la Amauri. Come on, now! Go find it.
You believe that our defence is Zebina, Grygera, Ariaudo and Sali because that was the defence that was playing yesterday, that's where your comment came from and that's what you expect from these players. You simply disregarded the friendly, the bench that was playing in both defence and midfield.
Now go find me the quote where Elkann said that we will use the same pattern of transfers, ignoring the defence and buying a la Amauri. Come on, now! Go find it.
^^Of course they are because we have seen that our RB (Zebi or Grygera is not that improved and we know the limitations of our LBs too)
I said that when Zebina made that mistake and Grygera couldnt prevent that. Since one of them will be our starter and the rest of our defense wont be able to prevent that either, it is a pretty safe conclusion!
ATM we also know our option on the LB and we also know that Ferrara will try a more offensive scheme.
If Ariaudo or Salih was making that mistake, i wouldnt say that.
Because, naturally, they wont be our starters!
I m sorry if you were really led to believe that i expect from Chiellini and Canna the same performance like Grygera and Ariaudo.
It was never my intention, i told you not to jump on insane conclusions, stop doing that!
The pattern is not said, talk is cheap and subjective/inaccurate.
The pattern is shown, precisely by following the transfers moves made in the past 3-4 seasons and the reasoning behind them.
Each year, you can see the priority of improving our offensive options, investing on them and not on our defense.
After all these years, isnt this obvious, even for you??
Our board just admitted that our priority is to become an offensive team who,
Gigli said that our priority is spectacle and not titles.
What else do you expect them to say??
Have you ever saw a board member admitting that or his incompetence??
But his actions cant hide that!! Jack seriously, just look at our transfers so far and tell me, that this pattern wasnt followed for the past 3 years!
I said that when Zebina made that mistake and Grygera couldnt prevent that. Since one of them will be our starter and the rest of our defense wont be able to prevent that either, it is a pretty safe conclusion!
ATM we also know our option on the LB and we also know that Ferrara will try a more offensive scheme.
If Ariaudo or Salih was making that mistake, i wouldnt say that.
Because, naturally, they wont be our starters!
I m sorry if you were really led to believe that i expect from Chiellini and Canna the same performance like Grygera and Ariaudo.
It was never my intention, i told you not to jump on insane conclusions, stop doing that!
The pattern is not said, talk is cheap and subjective/inaccurate.
The pattern is shown, precisely by following the transfers moves made in the past 3-4 seasons and the reasoning behind them.
Each year, you can see the priority of improving our offensive options, investing on them and not on our defense.
After all these years, isnt this obvious, even for you??
Our board just admitted that our priority is to become an offensive team who,
Gigli said that our priority is spectacle and not titles.
What else do you expect them to say??
Have you ever saw a board member admitting that or his incompetence??
But his actions cant hide that!! Jack seriously, just look at our transfers so far and tell me, that this pattern wasnt followed for the past 3 years!
I see no pattern because patterns is for people with issues.
You just said that Elkann said that we "would also follow the pattern of not investing at the defense and make more a la Amauri acquisitions" Now you are saying that he didn't say that, you just saw the pattern! Great, another reason to believe that you come up with stuff based on nothing.
Now my question is, do you want us to buy defenders just for the sake of buying defenders or do you want us to buy defenders that fit the profiles that we need and are up to the task?
You just said that Elkann said that we "would also follow the pattern of not investing at the defense and make more a la Amauri acquisitions" Now you are saying that he didn't say that, you just saw the pattern! Great, another reason to believe that you come up with stuff based on nothing.
Now my question is, do you want us to buy defenders just for the sake of buying defenders or do you want us to buy defenders that fit the profiles that we need and are up to the task?
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