Kingsley Coman (12 Viewers)

[Hust]

For 28M we could theoretically also buy Zaza and Hernanes. Assuming that we'll surely be able to turn 28M into transfers as good as the Vidal, Tevez and Pogba ones is very hopeful.

In addition to that, those 28M may end up be a very small amount if Coman develops the way Bayern think he's able to. Bayern is basically paying 8M to see how one of the most interesting youngsters develop in 2 years. That's a very good investment on their part.

We might get a 2 year older Coman back who spent his loan rotting on the bench. That's not worth 8M. If that's the case, then we'll surely regret not selling him outright in the first place instead or using him ourselves. Or better: Loaning him without a buyout clause.

There'll always be some buyers. But if Bayern doesn't use their option to buy, then he most likely won't be worth the €20M they would have to pay. Otherwise they would have just used the option.

While you're being overly optimistic, I'm obviously taking the negative approach. The reality is probably somewhere between the two, but claiming we win in any scenario is quite a stretch.

Alright Voeller, let's dance:

I presented you with 3 situations in which we win. Unless Coman turns into the next prime Robben or Ribery he isn't going to go for more than what Bayern would pay, at least, with what we have seen from him that is.

Let's compare another youth prospect that is younger and has been putting up incredible numbers and would come here for less than what Bayern will pay for Coman: Berardi. Sure, slightly different players but the point is, we have our hands on a world class POTENTIAL already. We have seen both either directly or indirectly for some time so it seems like Berardi will be here next year and who knows with Coman. (I'm at Starbucks and a bunch of girls in yoga pants walked in from the gym next door so if I drift from point to point I do apologize but now you know why...)

I know you are taking the negative approach but the ONLY way for this deal to be bad is if he becomes the next Robben/Mueller, etc while he is there. He may very well do that but AT LEAST we still make a lot of money from him. If he comes back no better than when we left we can still sell him. Even if we sold him for 8m we still made 16m from him a kid we got for free. How the hell is that bad business?

To your comment about him rotting on the bench for the loan: how is that bad for us, we still made money. Worst case scenario in that sense is we bring him back and try to develop him or simply sell him.

Again, I know you are taking the opposite approach to sorta even the drawing board out. I get that, but, I still see us winning on this deal in the long run.


inb4 we play Bayern and he and Vidal both score thus eliminating us.

 

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[Völler]

He may very well do that but AT LEAST we still make a lot of money from him. If he comes back no better than when we left we can still sell him. Even if we sold him for 8m we still made 16m from him a kid we got for free. How the hell is that bad business?

To your comment about him rotting on the bench for the loan: how is that bad for us, we still made money. Worst case scenario in that sense is we bring him back and try to develop him or simply sell him.

Ok, I see why we disagree. You're arguing that, because we got Coman for free, we're making a great piece of business since we're going to earn money on him no matter what. I don't agree with that. For me, us signing Coman and us loaning/selling him are two separate things, and one doesn't justify the other. A transfer should be judged based on the player's current market value and not to the price you paid to get him.

Just because we made a great deal by getting Coman for free doesn't mean we're make making a great piece of business by getting something for him. Just like buying Andy Carroll for 25M isn't a bargain just because Liverpool paid £35M.

Sorry for only quoting part of your post. But it seems to me that this is where we disagree the most.

 

[dolph]

Alright Voeller, let's dance:

I presented you with 3 situations in which we win. Unless Coman turns into the next prime Robben or Ribery he isn't going to go for more than what Bayern would pay, at least, with what we have seen from him that is.

Let's compare another youth prospect that is younger and has been putting up incredible numbers and would come here for less than what Bayern will pay for Coman: Berardi. Sure, slightly different players but the point is, we have our hands on a world class POTENTIAL already. We have seen both either directly or indirectly for some time so it seems like Berardi will be here next year and who knows with Coman. (I'm at Starbucks and a bunch of girls in yoga pants walked in from the gym next door so if I drift from point to point I do apologize but now you know why...)

I know you are taking the negative approach but the ONLY way for this deal to be bad is if he becomes the next Robben/Mueller, etc while he is there. He may very well do that but AT LEAST we still make a lot of money from him. If he comes back no better than when we left we can still sell him. Even if we sold him for 8m we still made 16m from him a kid we got for free. How the hell is that bad business?

To your comment about him rotting on the bench for the loan: how is that bad for us, we still made money. Worst case scenario in that sense is we bring him back and try to develop him or simply sell him.

Again, I know you are taking the opposite approach to sorta even the drawing board out. I get that, but, I still see us winning on this deal in the long run.


inb4 we play Bayern and he and Vidal both score thus eliminating us.

If Coman has a marketvalue of 21 mio or less in 2 years then we will make a profit of 7 mio. If he is worth 25 mio then we will make 3 mio. from this deal. If he is worth 28 mio euro or anything more then we will loose the money from 28 mio. and up to his marketvalue. Given the prices players are traded for (Zaza 18 mio, De Bruyne 75 mio, Sterling 55 mio)I think Its a bad deal. But offcourse it depends how you access the odds for his marketvalue in two years. The fact that he was free a year ago does not make a difference. The fact that we will have Berardi here next year does not matter. And Berardi does not have WC potential in my opinion.

 

[Ocelot]

Ok, I see why we disagree. You're arguing that, because we got Coman for free, we're making a great piece of business since we're going to earn money on him no matter what. I don't agree with that. For me, us signing Coman and us loaning/selling him are two separate things, and one doesn't justify the other. A transfer should be judged based on the player's current market value and not to the price you paid to get him.

Just because we made a great deal by getting Coman for free doesn't mean we're make making a great piece of business by getting something for him. Just like buying Andy Carroll for 25M isn't a bargain just because Liverpool paid £35M.

Sorry for only quoting part of your post. But it seems to me that this is where we disagree the most.

Exactly.

See my post on the last page for example

Or in the CL thread, don't remember.

 

[WΏΏdy?]

Just wanted to come in and shower some lovin on beppe for selling a player useless to us for a profit of 8 to 28 million.

I love it! I hope he explodes at Bayern and we get that 28.

 

[Someone]

useless to us? we only have 1 winger - cuadrado.
coman could add much more depth, especially right now when allegri is considering 4-3-3, but i guess some prefer watching zaza\mandzukic on the wing or playing second striker. :hellyes:

another sad deal by marrota.


winning penalty and 1 assist againt olympiakos.

 

[lgorTudor]

Just wanted to come in and shower some lovin on beppe for selling a player useless to us for a profit of 8 to 28 million.

I love it! I hope he explodes at Bayern and we get that 28.

Worst case scenario. But hey, there are no good scenarios in this deal for Juventus, so whatever.

 

[kao_ray]

Wow, even Padoin could give that kind of assist and win such a penalty. But well played by Gotze, this was a difficult goal.

 

[WΏΏdy?]

The only bad thing about this deal is marotta failed to negotiate an outright sale. 8 mil in this seasons budget is useless. Those 20 mils in 4 mercatos from now might help but we should have got that chunk now and spent it on dax or someone.

 

[kao_ray]

Yeah, almost 30 mil at once for Coman would be too good. Kingsley has a lot of potential, but he is not ready for top level football with us. I wish him luck with Bayern.

 

[Siamak]

useless to us? we only have 1 winger - cuadrado.
coman could add much more depth, especially right now when allegri is considering 4-3-3, but i guess some prefer watching zaza\mandzukic on the wing or playing second striker. :hellyes:

another sad deal by marrota.


winning penalty and 1 assist againt olympiakos.

he was involved in 2 of bayern goals if can buyback him we should do it

 

[radekas]

So now every time Coman does something good in any game this thread will be resurrected by people desperate to play the "I TOLD YOU SO" card. Of course it will be quiet between such games.

 

[Someone]

Wow, even Padoin could give that kind of assist and win such a penalty. But well played by Gotze, this was a difficult goal.

that assist might look easy, but i doubt any of juve players could manage reaching that ball and launching a proper pass, probably only morata-dybala-pereyra-cuadrado.
padoin winning a penalty the same way. good one.

but i guess fans are usually subjective by nature. one day vidal is the best midfielder in the world and on the other he had a bad season and is declining.

hope that was sarcasm though.

but he is not ready for top level football with us. I wish him luck with Bayern.

i doubt any of the new arrivals are. and sometimes its ok. a squad is usually built around 25 players, only 11 are starters, thus not all of them have to be at top level asap or even at all.
generally speaking it is funny thing to say considering some of the material we have at the moment..


coman could add a lot to juve depth on attack, he is a winger, juve lack wingers, juve lack depth on attack no matter what formation it is eventually, the least juve could do is give him another chance this season, especially when this deal is a loan for 2 years, meaning juve only chance to receive a real income is in 2 years. and if it does come eventually juve will probably lose.

you guys saying you are happy about him leaving at this point of time.. the only time you should(if at all) be happy about it, is if he fails to live up to his 21mil price tag, and that would be in 2 years, only then you could say you are happy. and until then juve cant take any action.

and if you really want to get rid of him or the player himself demands a move, the least you could do is what madrid done with morata. this deal was utter joke.

but hey, marrota is the best isnt he?

 

[WΏΏdy?]

There was a reason Coman was benched forever last season and even when it came to subs he was behind the likes of matri, padoin, llorente etc

After dybala and sandro, this transfer is the best marotta achieved this summer.

 

[Someone]

the main reason is because juve played 4312 and he didnt fit that.
why dont you add buffon to the players he was behind on rotation? llorente, matri and padoin have different roles on the pitch and are completely different type of players.
also when you have great players positioned on the second striker and attacking midifielder roles what did you expect? that coman, 18 years old, will bench tevez? morata? pereyra? vidal? who? especially when the formation played is 4312 and his natural position is on the left wing.

considering allegri will probably try and implement 4-3-3, coman is much bigger loss, just shows once again the lack of planning.

and i will say it once again, you want to get rid of a player? at least get a proper deal out of it, dont send him on experiment for 2 years.
also, implying coman was not good enough for juventus is ridiculous. he aint a player for juve but for bayern he is ok :bandwagon:

the only way this deal might have been the "best" after dybala and sandro is because this summer was full of poor deals. :facepalm2:

 

[Hist]

that assist might look easy, but i doubt any of juve players could manage reaching that ball and launching a proper pass, probably only morata-dybala-pereyra-cuadrado.
padoin winning a penalty the same way. good one.

but i guess fans are usually subjective by nature. one day vidal is the best midfielder in the world and on the other he had a bad season and is declining.

hope that was sarcasm though.



i doubt any of the new arrivals are. and sometimes its ok. a squad is usually built around 25 players, only 11 are starters, thus not all of them have to be at top level asap or even at all.
generally speaking it is funny thing to say considering some of the material we have at the moment..


coman could add a lot to juve depth on attack, he is a winger, juve lack wingers, juve lack depth on attack no matter what formation it is eventually, the least juve could do is give him another chance this season, especially when this deal is a loan for 2 years, meaning juve only chance to receive a real income is in 2 years. and if it does come eventually juve will probably lose.

you guys saying you are happy about him leaving at this point of time.. the only time you should(if at all) be happy about it, is if he fails to live up to his 21mil price tag, and that would be in 2 years, only then you could say you are happy. and until then juve cant take any action.

and if you really want to get rid of him or the player himself demands a move, the least you could do is what madrid done with morata. this deal was utter joke.

but hey, marrota is the best isnt he?

The best case scenario for us is that he turns out to be a good player but not a great one. This way Bayern do pay the remaining 22 million for him and that would be a fair price. Getting rid of a player that we dont need, wont give time and how is extremely raw for 28 million would be a great deal unless he turns out to be the next Neymar.

If he flops as many of us think, then we got 6 mill out of him and we will have him back. Its a profitable deal just not that important because its just 6 mill. The worst case scenario is that he is the next Neymar/Hazard etc and 28 mill for him turns out to be a steal.

 

[Sad Statue]

I really wish I am wrong, but I think this deal will hurt us a lot in the future. I watched the Bayern game, as I also support Olympiacos, and he was good. Quite good positioning, fast, tricky. He had a couple of errors/wrong judgement moments, but in general he was really good. I think that with experience he will become a really good player.

And the deal makes no sense at all. We gave a trial period to Bayern. If he succeeds, buy a gem for 28. If he doesn't, send him back. I mean, when United paid almost 80 mil for Martial, they paid for potential. Not for ability. Potential costs. You want to take 28 mil for him? Fine. Take it now.

And please, don't keep saying about the free part. We got Pogba for free as well. If we sell him for 10 mil, none would be happy. We got Vidal for 11 mil and when sold him for 37 none was happy.

That's a weird deal. A really weird one. Allegri supporting him and then 1 week later leaving. Big teams don't give their best talents away like this. Fuck it, we don't need 8 mil. Its nothing for a club like Juventus compared to the possibility of having a future superstar. Something should have been going on in the background. This is one of the most strange and weird deals I have ever witnessed.

 

[Someone]

The best case scenario for us is that he turns out to be a good player but not a great one. This way Bayern do pay the remaining 22 million for him and that would be a fair price. Getting rid of a player that we dont need, wont give time and how is extremely raw for 28 million would be a great deal unless he turns out to be the next Neymar.

If he flops as many of us think, then we got 6 mill out of him and we will have him back. Its a profitable deal just not that important because its just 6 mill. The worst case scenario is that he is the next Neymar/Hazard etc and 28 mill for him turns out to be a steal.

i can accept that, but my point is that we could use an extra winger\attacker\creator and coman could get another chance at juve. its not like juve has a huge amount of wingers\playmakers and could spare one that easily. its funny that bayern has so many wingers\playmakers and yet they found a spot for him but we didnt.

and the deal itself raises too many "ifs", that is what i dont like about it.

 

[Siamak]

The best case scenario for us is that he turns out to be a good player but not a great one. This way Bayern do pay the remaining 22 million for him and that would be a fair price. Getting rid of a player that we dont need, wont give time and how is extremely raw for 28 million would be a great deal unless he turns out to be the next Neymar.

If he flops as many of us think, then we got 6 mill out of him and we will have him back. Its a profitable deal just not that important because its just 6 mill. The worst case scenario is that he is the next Neymar/Hazard etc and 28 mill for him turns out to be a steal.

i really forgotten He's on a loan not sold he can get higher level of experience change tactics to adapt to our new squad for future Personally, I'd like for us to purchase him back, loan him out but its depend on coman view and His desire for playanig in juve thus if he continue to develop there rather than get exposure to training and playing in a team like bayern it will be hard to see him again at juventus same about morata and his current situation in juve

 

[Nzoric]

There was a reason Coman was benched forever last season and even when it came to subs he was behind the likes of matri, padoin, llorente etc

After dybala and sandro, this transfer is the best marotta achieved this summer.

int: