Juventus - Roma (5 Viewers)

dpforever

Prediction Game Champ 2003 & 2005
Jan 12, 2002
3,794
Club managers/owners shouldn't get away with such comments .. the bastard should receive a heafty fine :groan:

Reflecting back to the match, I think we handled it well .. we didn't consume much energies in the second half which is good for our match against Barca .. Camoranesi will miss next week's match against Brescia thanks to his 3rd yellow card this season(automatic one-match suspension) .. the match demonstrated to everyone - and most importantly Senior Lippi - that Tudor is able to play well in central defence and is a better (i.e. more reliable) option than Iuliano ..

We can wrap-up the Scudetto next week if Vieri-less Inter failed to win agaisnt Lazio while we get full-points against Brescia in the Delle Alpi ..

Anyway, i'm more relaxed now in the Serie A and now we should fully concentrate on the tough task ahead of us in the Champions League .. win in Nou Camp !!

Forza Juve !!
 

Glen

Junior Member
Aug 26, 2002
157
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Good win and a better than satisfying performance from all

For those who are blaming Di Vaio, do u think its easy playing on your own while the manager tells Dp to play as a left winger in the first half where apart from his 2 goals was having a nightmare and in the second half , Dp played very well but for some reason in the midfield

What has happened to Lippi, why is he so bloody negative, this system might give Nedved the chance to shine in his free role but it does take away from the strikers as Trez and Di Vaio have to work very hard on their own and its not thier natural game, no wonder they are now goal shy as its very difficult to work so hard on your own up front and by the time they get a genuine chance they are probably too tired to convert

Tudor did very well and if it was up 2 me he definitely will play ahead of Ferrara and Montero but its not up 2 me

Buffon did well but it seems he is developing a very bad habit of not reacting quickly to shots that are not made directly at him, but thats been hyper critical

Birindelli and Ferrara were ok nothing special
Thuram was excellent
Davids and Tacchi were involved in a fascinating battle with Emerson and Dacourt

Nedved was excellent and was probably the man of the match but boy does he dive a lot

Camo did well

Di Vaio offered loads of movement and sacrificed himself for the benefit of the team

Dp was poor in the first half though he scored twice which polished his needless giving the ball away but in the second half was superb and probably deserved man of the match for his football and showing absolute class when headbutted and just looked at Lima and did nothing unlike some who will roll on the ground trying to get a fellow professional sent off. Absolute class

Still very worried about the way Lippi is going about his biz and like the Eurosport analysts were saying he absolutely killed the game in the second half, hoping for the best against Barcelona

90% agreement and very good post :).

I think you're being a bit light on DP who in my opinion is still very far from real form. Sadly- but this time seems as good as any to drop a bit of malice on him as the two goals still show he's a leading light for us.
Obviously- he has that classy element about him in many situations, both as a player and a man, but I don't think it's only Lippi's choice that he isn't getting into the thick of things up front; it's also because he's shying away from the confrontations with defenders, and both Panucci and against Barca Puyol took the steam out of him early on by being physical. Del Piero then drops deeper to get space, but with the striker isolated up front that seldom leads to anything but possession and unproffitable tricks on the spot. His horrendous passing last night you covered.
Many times when the ball is won in midfield, DP simply isn't getting forward at any pace which makes a mockery of Di Vaio's fine running about (which is all I think he's really succeeding with at Juve to be honest :(), and when we're in posession he's constantly coming back to receive the ball instead of making runs into space up front.
He wasn't doing this to this extent early on in the season when he was in better physical shape, and several times he becomes a hazard when coming back because he doesn't want to do the easy thing, and with our men going forward we become vulnerable to counters when DP loses the ball or is dramatically close to doing so. In particular last night where he lost the ball on the half way line for a Tommasi/Totti combo down our left side in the first, and even worse in the second where DP and Camo of all people were playing one-two's deep in our own half with the defenders on their way. We were inches from conceeding an equalizer there I thought. Last swipe at DP: WHY does he insist on not giving his free kicks any power? He's been *****footing about them ever since he returned from injury. Even if he wasn't missing them by meters most of the time- the keepers follow them with ease. We know he has the ability to curl the ball with power and it's only on those occasions he's scored on free kicks anyway these past few years (if not deflected ones with the NT ;)). These opportunities are too good not to get more from, and he should get back to giving it a good wack!
That said- of course there were good things to say about DP last night too and as he won the match for us there's still a big up for a good job.

Tudor in defence (good choice Lippi!) meant that there were no physical duels we didn't win. Simple as that. Tudor should be first choice along with whatever new defender we're buying for next year (imagine Mexés dealing with the pacy guys and leading the trap, while Tudor sweeps the air and destroys the Vieri, Kluivert people? The joy!!!) and Ferrara should be first sub if he maintains current form.
I still think there's rustyness to Tudor's game though; in particular his passing as he hasn't really adapted to the fact that when you're at the heart of the CD- you don't make errant or 'arrogant' passes but keeps it simple. Ferrara get's by (and greatly so) on knowing exactly what he can do and when to do it, and I thought he was better than Tudor overall last night, because even having the task of guarding the much faster Montella (who has come back to shape in a big fecking way) Ferrara kept him away from any chances apart from the goal which was obviously Nedved's mistake (and supercool execution by Totti/Montella). An added bonus about Ferrara is the way he leads the line, and Montela would be right in shaking his head if he wasn't thinking about the linesman because he was caught every single time.

On the whole I thought the individual performances were nice overall, but our game super boring yet intense because of the animosity.

Last, which is actually where I disagree with you I think.
Lippi's substitutions (to start there) to me made a world of sense as Nedved is indispensable for tuesdays game and he had taken quite a few knocks apart from the ones he inflicted on himself ;). Pessotto only meant suring up the left flank because Montella was increasingly drifting there to get a race on with Ferrara, and Pessotto's covering the spaces relieved pressure.
Conte coming on instead of Camo apart from wasting a bit of time also made sense because Camo was clearly the most frustrated Juve player on the pitch after seing how Lima was allowed to manhandle him; he just had a booking and Conte for all his invisibility did an OK job of guarding the fort.
Di Vaio hadn't rally succeeed with much (apart from causing Aldair to cramp out :D ), and I thought bringing on Olivera was an OK choice, as Olivera appears to have alot of things going for him; fast and technical, but he sadly was overawed by the occasion and received quite the serieA treatment from the second he stepped onto the field :).
It's true on the other hand that Lippi's tactics were decidedly negative in the second, but had it not been we would have propably been blaming him that he wasn't looking forward to tuesdays all important clash. I know I would have.

Bottomline for me is that Lippi has led us to a 6 points advantage, about to cross the threshold to another scudetto and we're still in Europe to dream with a squad that has several real limitations and while having had multiple injuries to key performers. With this kind of midfield form and last years DP/Trez partnership on top I wouldn't be afraid of anyone bar noone, but we have nothing behind the starting midfield, and it's quite clear that none of our strikers (for injury and Di Vaio not having fully adapted) have really been making the grade apart from DP prior to his injury this season. Lippi hasn't got alot of cards to play, and I think he's doing splendidly with the ones he has (although I agree with many of your observations on the substitutions from the Bologna game).

Ciao.
 

Tom

The DJ
Oct 30, 2001
11,726
lets hope Lippi has seen the light now and Tudor becomes what he should be, our first choice centre back! We obviously still lack that extra soemthing going forward, that ability to open up teams, but with this squad, as glen put it, severley limited in terms of options and technical skills, we are doing well enough!
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
havent got time to write anything about game at mo...

but i really dont see how people can rave about tudor, yes i too was glad to see him in his natural position.
Though it has to be said he was rubbish, by far our worst player on the night.

anyway.... thats all for now



GAZZETTA DELLO SPORT: Buffon 6, Thuram 6.5, Ferrara 6.5, Tudor 5.5, Birindelli 6 , Camoranesi 6, Conte sv, Tacchinardi 6.5, Davids 6.5, Nedved 6.5, Pessotto sv, Del Piero 7, Di Vaio 5, Olivera sv.

CORRIERE DELLO SPORT: Buffon 6.5, Thuram 6, Ferrara 6.5, Tudor 5, Birindelli 6 , Camoranesi 6, Conte sv, Tacchinardi 6, Davids 6.5, Nedved 6.5, Pessotto sv, Del Piero 7, Di Vaio 5, Olivera sv.

TUTTOSPORT: Buffon 6, Thuram 6, Ferrara 6, Tudor 5.5, Birindelli 6 , Camoranesi 5.5, Conte sv, Tacchinardi 6.5, Davids 6, Nedved 7, Pessotto sv, Del Piero 6.5, Di Vaio 5, Olivera sv.

LA STAMPA: Buffon 6, Thuram 6.5, Ferrara 6.5, Tudor 5.5, Birindelli 6, Camoranesi 6.5, Conte sv, Tacchinardi 6.5, Davids 7, Nedved 7, Pessotto 6, Del Piero 7, Di Vaio 6.5, Olivera sv.

CORRIERE DELLA SERA: Buffon 6, Thuram 6, Ferrara 6, Tudor 6, Birindelli
6, Camoranesi 6, Conte sv, Tacchinardi 6.5, Davids 6.5, Nedved 7, Pessotto sv, Del Piero 7, Di Vaio 5, Olivera sv.

LA REPUBBLICA: Buffon 6, Thuram 6.5, Ferrara 6.5, Tudor 6, Birindelli 6, Camoranesi 6, Conte sv, Tacchinardi 6.5, Davids 6.5, Nedved 7, Pessotto sv, Del Piero 6.5, Di Vaio 6, Olivera sv.
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
++ [ originally posted by Glen ] ++



90% agreement and very good post :).

I think you're being a bit light on DP who in my opinion is still very far from real form. Sadly- but this time seems as good as any to drop a bit of malice on him as the two goals still show he's a leading light for us.
Obviously- he has that classy element about him in many situations, both as a player and a man, but I don't think it's only Lippi's choice that he isn't getting into the thick of things up front; it's also because he's shying away from the confrontations with defenders, and both Panucci and against Barca Puyol took the steam out of him early on by being physical. Del Piero then drops deeper to get space, but with the striker isolated up front that seldom leads to anything but possession and unproffitable tricks on the spot. His horrendous passing last night you covered.
Many times when the ball is won in midfield, DP simply isn't getting forward at any pace which makes a mockery of Di Vaio's fine running about (which is all I think he's really succeeding with at Juve to be honest :(), and when we're in posession he's constantly coming back to receive the ball instead of making runs into space up front.
He wasn't doing this to this extent early on in the season when he was in better physical shape, and several times he becomes a hazard when coming back because he doesn't want to do the easy thing, and with our men going forward we become vulnerable to counters when DP loses the ball or is dramatically close to doing so. In particular last night where he lost the ball on the half way line for a Tommasi/Totti combo down our left side in the first, and even worse in the second where DP and Camo of all people were playing one-two's deep in our own half with the defenders on their way. We were inches from conceeding an equalizer there I thought. Last swipe at DP: WHY does he insist on not giving his free kicks any power? He's been *****footing about them ever since he returned from injury. Even if he wasn't missing them by meters most of the time- the keepers follow them with ease. We know he has the ability to curl the ball with power and it's only on those occasions he's scored on free kicks anyway these past few years (if not deflected ones with the NT ;)). These opportunities are too good not to get more from, and he should get back to giving it a good wack!
That said- of course there were good things to say about DP last night too and as he won the match for us there's still a big up for a good job.

Tudor in defence (good choice Lippi!) meant that there were no physical duels we didn't win. Simple as that. Tudor should be first choice along with whatever new defender we're buying for next year (imagine Mexés dealing with the pacy guys and leading the trap, while Tudor sweeps the air and destroys the Vieri, Kluivert people? The joy!!!) and Ferrara should be first sub if he maintains current form.
I still think there's rustyness to Tudor's game though; in particular his passing as he hasn't really adapted to the fact that when you're at the heart of the CD- you don't make errant or 'arrogant' passes but keeps it simple. Ferrara get's by (and greatly so) on knowing exactly what he can do and when to do it, and I thought he was better than Tudor overall last night, because even having the task of guarding the much faster Montella (who has come back to shape in a big fecking way) Ferrara kept him away from any chances apart from the goal which was obviously Nedved's mistake (and supercool execution by Totti/Montella). An added bonus about Ferrara is the way he leads the line, and Montela would be right in shaking his head if he wasn't thinking about the linesman because he was caught every single time.

On the whole I thought the individual performances were nice overall, but our game super boring yet intense because of the animosity.

Last, which is actually where I disagree with you I think.
Lippi's substitutions (to start there) to me made a world of sense as Nedved is indispensable for tuesdays game and he had taken quite a few knocks apart from the ones he inflicted on himself ;). Pessotto only meant suring up the left flank because Montella was increasingly drifting there to get a race on with Ferrara, and Pessotto's covering the spaces relieved pressure.
Conte coming on instead of Camo apart from wasting a bit of time also made sense because Camo was clearly the most frustrated Juve player on the pitch after seing how Lima was allowed to manhandle him; he just had a booking and Conte for all his invisibility did an OK job of guarding the fort.
Di Vaio hadn't rally succeeed with much (apart from causing Aldair to cramp out :D ), and I thought bringing on Olivera was an OK choice, as Olivera appears to have alot of things going for him; fast and technical, but he sadly was overawed by the occasion and received quite the serieA treatment from the second he stepped onto the field :).
It's true on the other hand that Lippi's tactics were decidedly negative in the second, but had it not been we would have propably been blaming him that he wasn't looking forward to tuesdays all important clash. I know I would have.

Bottomline for me is that Lippi has led us to a 6 points advantage, about to cross the threshold to another scudetto and we're still in Europe to dream with a squad that has several real limitations and while having had multiple injuries to key performers. With this kind of midfield form and last years DP/Trez partnership on top I wouldn't be afraid of anyone bar noone, but we have nothing behind the starting midfield, and it's quite clear that none of our strikers (for injury and Di Vaio not having fully adapted) have really been making the grade apart from DP prior to his injury this season. Lippi hasn't got alot of cards to play, and I think he's doing splendidly with the ones he has (although I agree with many of your observations on the substitutions from the Bologna game).

Ciao.
I did not criticise his substitutions, just the way he is getting us to play and I seriously doubt it that Dp will decide to play as a left winger in the first half and as a midfielder in the second half , if he was not authorised to do so by Lippi

And thats my crititicism as he seems to be obsessed now with the lone striker deal

Secondly the players we have at our disposal are mainly becos of Lippi so I will not call him a miracle worker as these are the kind of players he likes, he is not capable of dealing well with stars or ppl with big egos as his past dealings have shown and he did very little with Inter

When your game plan is all about pace and athletism then this is what we just have to be used to it.

Players like Blasi, Tacchinardi, Davids, Tudor, Baiocco, Zenoni, Zalayeta are the kind of players that lippi loves, so to expect the Marescas of these world to be in Lippi's first team is wishful thinking as he is neither athletic not pacey

Frankly, Lippi, Capello and Trapatoni are from the same school of coaching with just a minor tinkling between them but basically they are the same with Lippi slightly more attack minded at least he was in his glory days when we were not only winning but playing some good stuff unlike now when we are just winning
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,482
The team as a whole was lucky to get the win, the only difference being given that dubious penalty kick.

Even after scoring 2 goals, DP still has a ways to go before he is 100%. IMO DiVaio isnt worth 10 dollars, he hasnt been the same since that head injury he suffered against Newcastlle.We should see if we could make a swap with Roma after the season- Montella for DiVaio. We've been short changed of the DiVaio who played for Parma.

Tudor was ok IMO, he does belong in the back 4, not in the midfield.

If we continue to play like this, we can kiss the CL GOODBYE !!!!

-even if Trez plays against Barca, dont you think he'll be on the rusty side ????
 

Tom

The DJ
Oct 30, 2001
11,726
++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++
but i really dont see how people can rave about tudor, yes i too was glad to see him in his natural position.
Though it has to be said he was rubbish, by far our worst player on the night.
you think so? given he never plays in defence anymore I was very happy with his performance. It was better than I'd expected and he didn't do much wrong IMO
 

Glen

Junior Member
Aug 26, 2002
157
Denco: On the subs I realize you didn't criticise. I mistakenly included your commetns from the Bologna game to my line of thinking while replaying, and I didn't see a problem whereas I agreed last time. So...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Secondly the players we have at our disposal are mainly becos of Lippi so I will not call him a miracle worker as these are the kind of players he likes, he is not capable of dealing well with stars or ppl with big egos as his past dealings have shown and he did very little with Inter
Lippi left Juventus for Inter to get hands on control on the market which he wanted and didn't have at Juve. What makes you think this has changed?
Obviously I expect Lippi to have some influence and being heard, but he isn't calling the shots on transfers. He never did. Whereas I can agree on the ego handling (to some extend- we have some rather big ego's at Juve too, just not of the open mouthed idiot kind :)), Lippi is not only hustle and he was actually the one who started playing Pirlo at Inter, and got more out of Recoba and Seedorff than any other manager has to date. Neither of who fits your description I think.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++When your game plan is all about pace and athletism then this is what we just have to be used to it.

Players like Blasi, Tacchinardi, Davids, Tudor, Baiocco, Zenoni, Zalayeta are the kind of players that lippi loves, so to expect the Marescas of these world to be in Lippi's first team is wishful thinking as he is neither athletic not pacey
Apart from Davids being obviously one of the most athletic and pacy players around- I don't see a single of the players you mentioned qualify? Do you mean stamina and strenght instead, because then I'd sadly be inclined to agree with the exceptance of Maresca who is faster and more agile than everyone in your list bar Davids. He may be one of the players Lippi can't handle however, as he's a real leader too. Anyway we need more pace in our team in general.

Paul: like Tom I can't see Tudor being that bad- or bad to begin with? Apart from one really bad pass that almost turned dangerous in the first half- did he have any defesive misups? I thought he did a fine match.
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
I think Lippi left becos his contract was up and Inter offered him substantially more than Juve were paying, I don't know about his lack of control on transfer market as I was led to believe he asked for Davids, Di vaio, Baiocco and Fresi to mention a few

About Seedorf, I personally think that apart from 1 season at Real madrid where he scored a spectacular goal against athletico madrid at the beginning of the season, the best other season I have ever seen him play is this season

Recoba , you are right except maybe for the season he spent at Vicenza

At Juventus to be fair apart from Davids there are no ego maniacs or probably Trez to an extent, the rest of them do not mind being on the bench and don't complain too much or openly show it .
 

Stu

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
17,557
I only have one thing to say at the moment, and that is about Lippi's tactics :rolleyes:

As denco said, I can't see Del Piero playing as a left winger/midfielder without being advised to by somebody, and this is a stupid tactic IMO :wallbang:

Not only does it make DP less effective, it makes Di Vaio/Trezeguet or whoever is playing as the lone striker's job that much harder :sigh:

He doesn't have to be right up there alongside the other striker, but IMO it makes more sense to play Alex in a more attacking position than he's being played in now...

P.S. I really hope that Lippi doesn't play a lone striker against Barca on Tuesday, and hopefully he starts Tudor in central defence :scared:
 
OP
my_hitzJUVE

my_hitzJUVE

Senior Member
Dec 14, 2002
740
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #313
    ++ [ originally posted by -Fantasista- ] ++

    P.S. I really hope that Lippi doesn't play a lone striker against Barca on Tuesday, and hopefully he starts Tudor in central defence :scared:
    yeah...that's the only thing i want to stress....we can't play a lone striker....plzzzz......:frown:
     

    Desmond

    Senior Member
    Jul 12, 2002
    8,938
    IMO we did a good job of cleaning roma up yesterday...they never really threatened because we won virtually every 50-50 ball with tudor and tacchi playing well.davids was dreadful yesterday,getting poor passes intercepted and on numerous occaisions falling prey to a poor first touch.

    dp was largely ineffective apart from the cool finish for the scong goal.nicely taken penalty imo,few could have saved that.neddy played superbly to get the better of roma's players countless times:thumb:.
     

    hoshi

    Senior Member
    Sep 2, 2002
    924
    good job by the boys. i have yet to see the match, but i'm glad we won :)
    thanks for the vids, magnus :kiss:
    and lastly (i just got back from a long drive so i'm going to bed), that pic with dp, neddy and :totti: is my new favourite photo :D
     

    Zizou

    Senior Member
    Apr 21, 2003
    3,965
    ++ [ originally posted by dpforever ] ++
    Reflecting back to the match, I think we handled it well .. we didn't consume much energies in the second half which is good for our match against Barca ..
    Exactly!! And Barca really had a tough match against Real and judging by the number of yellow cards, it must have been a tiring battle.

    So hopefully, they will be pschologically and physically tired by the second half. We have to take advantage of this
     

    Hydde

    Minimiliano Tristelli
    Mar 6, 2003
    38,987
    I dont know!! juve have to score goals quick, to have influence against barzas defence, and to gain confidence.

    IMO, the team who strike quicker will win.
     

    -Kinas-

    Junior Member
    Apr 13, 2003
    134
    ++ [ originally posted by Sivori ] ++


    No I don't get it.
    :)

    sivori wat i meant was that montero is a really good commentator as well as predicting the result as 2-1 when i was abt to go offline..

    montero gives fast and highly detailed commentary..

    juz like championship manager....

    thats what i meant..

    the other was bcoz i have this funny feeling Juve will win 2-1..


    and for the Barca match i feel Its a Draw that'll do both sides proud..

    Barca remains unbeaten... BUT LOSE on AWAY goals....

    2-2.. my 1st prediction...

    1-1.. with penalties... my 2nd prediction...

    for winners of penalties..

    see Dutch,Holland and Netherlands in the dictionary..

    Dutch,Holland,Netherlands = unlucky = hit post, missed penalties

    :D
     

    Sivori

    Senior Member
    Jul 17, 2002
    810
    O, I thought you meant the actual Paolo Montero:doh: :embarass:

    Most people just call him Tom since... well I think that's just his name...
     

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