Julian Draxler - AM LC - Schalke 04 (43 Viewers)

[Osman]

I've never seen much of Draxler, but what bugs me is that he doesn't seem to be very mobile

What makes you say that? If one thing this kid is, despite the size, is very quick/explosive/direct runner with the ball (atleast couple years back, nowadays dont know how injury effected). When he plays AM, and not LW, he reminds me of Kaka, quick dribbling style with the ball (he looks slower just because he is BIG, but mobility isnt an issue), deadly on the counter due to it. He is forced to LW because he isnt as good as Meyer centrally, not much of a visionary playmaker (more of pass short/1-2s and quick breaks/runs player), but also because his physical qualities fits the wing, dribbling, high mobility and quite direct approach.

 

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[Zacheryah]

Also, I thought your entire point was resting on a Tevez like player dropping back, so we have a "connecting" point up top. Is he dropping back and connecting or is he running away (lol) from the ball?

Sorry Zach, but youve been full of crap for some time now.

Thats only a part of it. The thing is that you cant have all forwards comming into the ball, or asking it in space. You need both. You need a player that can hold the ball and seek out teammates, and you need movement around him from players that find the spaces.

Tevez is a player that comes to ask the ball. Pereyra, Dybala, Morata are players that search the spaces around this kind of player. Morata wants it into space so he can run behind the defence, Pereyra to make runs between the lines in general, and Dybala to make various actions like combining, moving into more dangerous position, beating his marker to have a clear shot or a good trough pass position.


its vital to have both when playing a well organised team. Cause without a player to keep the ball, you'll lose it far to quickly, and are forced to play counter

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This topic has been rather hilarious, so i'm guessing you guys are doing this on purpose

My point is the player that asks for the ball, to hold and distribute it (wich we lack now tevez is gone).


responses so far :

- what,did zach say trequartista is playmaker
- what, did zach say playmaker in the playmaker position
- what, did zach say dybala is only a mobile player
- what, did zach say dybala is nothing more then mobile player
- what, did zach say its only about dropping back and connecting


I get it. Nzoric is on his period, Osman is angry, and others are plain stupid. But seriously..

 

[EyeC_U]

Thats only a part of it. The thing is that you cant have all forwards comming into the ball, or asking it in space. You need both. You need a player that can hold the ball and seek out teammates, and you need movement around him from players that find the spaces.

Tevez is a player that comes to ask the ball. Pereyra, Dybala, Morata are players that search the spaces around this kind of player. Morata wants it into space so he can run behind the defence, Pereyra to make runs between the lines in general, and Dybala to make various actions like combining, moving into more dangerous position, beating his marker to have a clear shot or a good trough pass position.


its vital to have both when playing a well organised team. Cause without a player to keep the ball, you'll lose it far to quickly, and are forced to play counter

In short, it ruins the dagdigal flow

 

[Hængebøffer]

In short, it ruins the dagdigal flow

 

[Zacheryah]

No, it restricts what you can do.


The Bayern game was a very good example. Nobody that could ask and keep the ball in the final third. So we couldnt do shit against them, but counter. But since we werent suited for counter, it was hoofing long balls. Wich is quite useless when you are facing bayerns defence.

Now we have good players to counter. But that becomes problematic when you are behind

 

[baggio]

Not really dude. If the total is 30 million, assuming that the bonuses are appearance based. They would be getting 60% of that money upfront, no questions asked. Knowing the injury that Draxler had last year, there would be some concerns as to paying out the full 30.

It's a really tricky situation, because a fully healthy Draxler is easily worth 30 million just based on talent alone. Schalke wants Juve, or anyone else to take the full financial risk on the player, when it is unclear right now whether he would be fit enough to last a whole season.

Who stands to lose if we don't get our man? Assuming this guy is a serious target, then we need to understand that we are the ones who have identified him as a potential prospect, and will have to take that risk, and not expect Schalke to bend over to our demands. And please tell me what good is it to pay 18m up front for a guy who we think will get injured in the first place? We stand to lose. This is the nature of a high risk, high reward transaction, and I'm sorry but Juve need to get with the program as far as that's concerned. This late in the mercato, its a precarious place to be when your objectives and options are limited.

That's not to say that we need to pay 30m, but there has to be something more favourable for the selling party in this deal, and that maybe reduci the bonus component in a more favourable trade off, something to the effect of 23m with 7m bonuses. I'd imagine that to be more realistic to mobilise opinion suitably.

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18m now is a hell of a lot better than 30m split up in 3 years at 10m a year, right?

Wouldn't need to explain that to the experts here though

Might as well offer 8m, that's better than paying 18m upfront. You're not going to get your man in either scenario. There's better ways to waste time on a so called primary transfer target you're not even sure about in the first place.

 

[KB824]

Who stands to lose if we don't get our man? Assuming this guy is a serious target, then we need to understand that we are the ones who have identified him as a potential prospect, and will have to take that risk, and not expect Schalke to bend over to our demands. And please tell me what good is it to pay 18m up front for a guy who we think will get injured in the first place? We stand to lose. This is the nature of a high risk, high reward transaction, and I'm sorry but Juve need to get with the program as far as that's concerned. This late in the mercato, its a precarious place to be when your objectives and options are limited.

That's not to say that we need to pay 30m, but there has to be something more favourable for the selling party in this deal, and that maybe reduci the bonus component in a more favourable trade off, something to the effect of 23m with 7m bonuses. I'd imagine that to be more realistic to mobilise opinion suitably.

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Might as well offer 8m, that's better than paying 18m upfront. You're not going to get your man in either scenario. There's better ways to waste time on a so called primary transfer target you're not even sure about in the first place.

I'm not sure where this anger towards me is coming from, but I never said that this scenario was much better than the first one. It's a little better, but not one that if I were Schalke would take all that seriously. But then again, from Juve's perspective, it is a very high risk because of the kid's injury that he had last year. Not because of his talent. And as I had said, I don't blame Schalke for wanting more, or all of it upfront, but I don't blame Juve either, considering the financial risk. It's one thing to take a risk on a player because he might be very raw, or one that is a precocious talent that has yet to prove himself on a big stage (Dybala), but a totally different kettle of fish when it comes to someone who came off the types of injuries that he did last year.


It's a measure of compromising between the two parties, if there is an agreement that will come of it at all. But as I had told Cam when he had stated that this type of dealings worked well in the past, that this is a different scenario. Juve are dealing with a club whose player we are after is A) The face of that franchise B) Not a surplus to requirements for Schalke and C) Not a club that needs to sell him.

He needs to change his approach this time. What plays in Udine doesn't necessarily play in Schalke.

 

[baggio]

I'm not sure where this anger towards me is coming from, but I never said that this scenario was much better than the first one. It's a little better, but not one that if I were Schalke would take all that seriously. But then again, from Juve's perspective, it is a very high risk because of the kid's injury that he had last year. Not because of his talent. And as I had said, I don't blame Schalke for wanting more, or all of it upfront, but I don't blame Juve either, considering the financial risk. It's one thing to take a risk on a player because he might be very raw, or one that is a precocious talent that has yet to prove himself on a big stage (Dybala), but a totally different kettle of fish when it comes to someone who came off the types of injuries that he did last year.


It's a measure of compromising between the two parties, if there is an agreement that will come of it at all. But as I had told Cam when he had stated that this type of dealings worked well in the past, that this is a different scenario. Juve are dealing with a club whose player we are after is A) The face of that franchise B) Not a surplus to requirements for Schalke and C) Not a club that needs to sell him.

He needs to change his approach this time. What plays in Udine doesn't necessarily play in Schalke.

no anger toward you at all Serge. Why would you think that? I'm just angry with how we are moving in general. Don't feel like we have any clarity on what we are trying to achieve this mercato. One day, we talk about numerical midfielders, one day about those who have Juve quality. Honestly, we fucked shit up with the Vidal sale, and from that point we are just operating out of our depth. This Siqueira deal also choking at the last minute. It's very unbecoming of a club with big CL ambitions. For projection and perception alike, a club must move with intent, and that's been severely missing this off season.

Not to jump the gun here, I'd go as far as saying that if things remain the way they are, Roma and Inter have it in them to topple us, in a season where they really didn't have the right to, because we were strong enough to make certain well calculated changes, while refreshing the squad. Right now, our biggest need gaps are also our most defining ones. I'd be very sorry to lose domestic dominance because of how confused we are as a club trying to negotiate for top personnel beyond Italian shores.

 

[Zacheryah]

I'm not sure where this anger towards me is coming from, but I never said that this scenario was much better than the first one. It's a little better, but not one that if I were Schalke would take all that seriously. But then again, from Juve's perspective, it is a very high risk because of the kid's injury that he had last year. Not because of his talent. And as I had said, I don't blame Schalke for wanting more, or all of it upfront, but I don't blame Juve either, considering the financial risk. It's one thing to take a risk on a player because he might be very raw, or one that is a precocious talent that has yet to prove himself on a big stage (Dybala), but a totally different kettle of fish when it comes to someone who came off the types of injuries that he did last year.


It's a measure of compromising between the two parties, if there is an agreement that will come of it at all. But as I had told Cam when he had stated that this type of dealings worked well in the past, that this is a different scenario. Juve are dealing with a club whose player we are after is A) The face of that franchise B) Not a surplus to requirements for Schalke and C) Not a club that needs to sell him.

He needs to change his approach this time. What plays in Udine doesn't necessarily play in Schalke.

Always a reasonable poster

 

[KB824]

no anger toward you at all Serge. Why would you think that? I'm just angry with how we are moving in general. Don't feel like we have any clarity on what we are trying to achieve this mercato. One day, we talk about numerical midfielders, one day about those who have Juve quality. Honestly, we fucked shit up with the Vidal sale, and from that point we are just operating out of our depth. This Siqueira deal also choking at the last minute. It's very unbecoming of a club with big CL ambitions. For projection and perception alike, a club must move with intent, and that's been severely missing this off season.

Not to jump the gun here, I'd go as far as saying that if things remain the way they are, Roma and Inter have it in them to topple us, in a season where they really didn't have the right to, because we were strong enough to make certain well calculated changes, while refreshing the squad. Right now, our biggest need gaps are also our most defining ones. I'd be very sorry to lose domestic dominance because of how confused we are as a club trying to negotiate for top personnel beyond Italian shores.

I really don't think they saw the Vidal situation coming. There was no indication of it, prior to it happening. SO yes, it threw them for a loop. I am a little perturbed at how long it has take them to recover from that sucker punch, if I may be perfectly honest. But I don't think they sat around ahead of time and said "Well, we will sell Vidal and not have any idea what to do with the funds."

When I saw how this mercato was playing out prior to the Vidal sale, I was honestly very pleased with how things were transpiring. I felt that with the departures at the time of Tevez and Pirlo, which I think we all knew were going to happen, they had themselves well covered, especially in attack. Adding Dybal and Mandzukic to Morata really gave this club some exciting dimensions. Adding Khedira on a free transfer gave the team enough depth at midfield.

And then Vidal happened. It kinda threw things for a loop, and the need for an AM became all the more necessary. I don't agree with your assertion that they need a top player signing at that spot. I do think they need someone who could develop into that, i.e. Draxler.

In regards to Siqueira, I don't think they choked on that deal, I think they put a stop to it, so that they can make another effort at Sandro.

I'm going to walk away now adn take my dog for a drive. I don't want you being even angrier at me

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Always a reasonable poster

Well, I try, cupcake

 

[Nzoric]

Thats only a part of it. The thing is that you cant have all forwards comming into the ball, or asking it in space. You need both. You need a player that can hold the ball and seek out teammates, and you need movement around him from players that find the spaces.

Tevez is a player that comes to ask the ball. Pereyra, Dybala, Morata are players that search the spaces around this kind of player. Morata wants it into space so he can run behind the defence, Pereyra to make runs between the lines in general, and Dybala to make various actions like combining, moving into more dangerous position, beating his marker to have a clear shot or a good trough pass position.


its vital to have both when playing a well organised team. Cause without a player to keep the ball, you'll lose it far to quickly, and are forced to play counter

- - - Updated - - -

This topic has been rather hilarious, so i'm guessing you guys are doing this on purpose

My point is the player that asks for the ball, to hold and distribute it (wich we lack now tevez is gone).


responses so far :

- what,did zach say trequartista is playmaker
- what, did zach say playmaker in the playmaker position
- what, did zach say dybala is only a mobile player
- what, did zach say dybala is nothing more then mobile player
- what, did zach say its only about dropping back and connecting


I get it. Nzoric is on his period, Osman is angry, and others are plain stupid. But seriously..

The more I read your posts the more I lean towards the conclusipn that you have positively no idea what youre talking about. Time for you to go to the ignorelist.

 

[baggio]

I really don't think they saw the Vidal situation coming. There was no indication of it, prior to it happening. SO yes, it threw them for a loop. I am a little perturbed at how long it has take them to recover from that sucker punch, if I may be perfectly honest. But I don't think they sat around ahead of time and said "Well, we will sell Vidal and not have any idea what to do with the funds."

When I saw how this mercato was playing out prior to the Vidal sale, I was honestly very pleased with how things were transpiring. I felt that with the departures at the time of Tevez and Pirlo, which I think we all knew were going to happen, they had themselves well covered, especially in attack. Adding Dybal and Mandzukic to Morata really gave this club some exciting dimensions. Adding Khedira on a free transfer gave the team enough depth at midfield.

And then Vidal happened. It kinda threw things for a loop, and the need for an AM became all the more necessary. I don't agree with your assertion that they need a top player signing at that spot. I do think they need someone who could develop into that, i.e. Draxler.

In regards to Siqueira, I don't think they choked on that deal, I think they put a stop to it, so that they can make another effort at Sandro.

I'm going to walk away now adn take my dog for a drive. I don't want you being even angrier at me.

For a minute, let's assume Vidal threw them off. Vidal wanting out made them rearrange priorities, but why are we forgetting that didn't mean we had to sell him mid July? Did it? We still had control over how we wanted to proceed with that sale. Instead, we had Beppe fly to Munich to close the deal (and some say ask for Goetze in exchange.) Fact is, the speed at which the deal progressed has us to blame just as much as any other variable we bring to the table. Vidal wanting out and Vidal being sold in a matter of days have very different dispositions.

I'm in full agreement about Dybala and Mandzukic's additions. The attack as a whole is better than last year, but ironically, it's weaker in starting positions. This of course is subject to further discussion as the season starts, but in my mind, I don't believe we should be looking at another potentially big player. Dybala has filled that slot is year. Now. Post the Vidal sale, the big money needs to go towards a slightly established name to help optimise Dybala and Morata in attack and link a lighter midfield than last year as well. Huge responsibility IMO, on the pitch.

And Sandro? I'd fap the fuck out of that signing, but we'd be naive to think we even have a chance with Man City also in the market for an LB. Huge risk there, perhaps unwarranted, because if that slips, we are essentially back to square one, assuming Siqueira chooses not to sign for us after how we backtracked.

Anyway, let's give this another 48 hours over the weekend and see how things move. My guess is, that the next mercato move will be Llorente's sale, before our next big AM ultimatum.

Enjoy the walk bruv.

 

[Zacheryah]

The more I read your posts the more I lean towards the conclusipn that you have positively no idea what youre talking about. Time for you to go to the ignorelist.

You are kinda confirming you have indeed been trolling me all the time here. Fair game, mistake to take you serious.

Not sure why you come from hibernation to this forum and then start ripping into me, but it is what it is.

 

[Hydde]

Im more worried about Asamoah and khedira thana nything else tbh- I think we can smoehow survive even if we miss a treq..we have quality players to work with.... but Asamoah{s and Khedira{s injury are fucking up everything

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Asamoah will be back in 3 weeks time, apparently. Hopefully he'll be fully fit and ready to go.

Khedira on the other hand...hope he isn't a perma-crock for us.

 

[Hydde]

With asamoah, i have to see it first to believe it. He has been out for way too long to just feel good about his return

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Yeah I agree. Having him back to full fitness would certainly be a boost for us though.

 

[Luftwaffles]

no anger toward you at all Serge. Why would you think that? I'm just angry with how we are moving in general. Don't feel like we have any clarity on what we are trying to achieve this mercato. One day, we talk about numerical midfielders, one day about those who have Juve quality. Honestly, we $#@!ed $#@! up with the Vidal sale, and from that point we are just operating out of our depth. This Siqueira deal also choking at the last minute. It's very unbecoming of a club with big CL ambitions. For projection and perception alike, a club must move with intent, and that's been severely missing this off season.

Not to jump the gun here, I'd go as far as saying that if things remain the way they are, Roma and Inter have it in them to topple us, in a season where they really didn't have the right to, because we were strong enough to make certain well calculated changes, while refreshing the squad. Right now, our biggest need gaps are also our most defining ones. I'd be very sorry to lose domestic dominance because of how confused we are as a club trying to negotiate for top personnel beyond Italian shores.

I could not agree more.

The current state of affairs as we approach the endgame in this mercato is turning out to be a woesome spectacle, seemingly played out in slow motion as contradictory statements of transfer strategies are voiced by management.

There is no indication that the club has either the ability or the desire to act decisively in closing its remaining transfer objectives.

The sense of swaying from one objective to another, with the procrastination, indecision, parsimoniousness and disorganisation all characterising the approach leads me to believe that the club is about to meekly give up its obvious superiority to clubs like Roma, Inter and others resulting from the seemingly shambolic transfer activity.

 

[frzl]

heldt just said that a 30m offer wouldn't even make him twitch.

fuck penny-pinching marotta.

 

[Hust]

heldt just said that a 30m offer wouldn't even make him twitch.

fuck penny-pinching marotta.

well if people were bitching about us not offering 30m this whole entire time it doesn't matter if Marotta didn't penny pinch and offered 30m from the get go...