João Cancelo (7 Viewers)

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
691
I wouldn't care much either if they weren't two goals that we conceded in knockout games. Both were easily avoidable and in the end cost us. Of course we will never know how those ties would have ended without conceding those goals.
don't care much in regards to Coppa Italia, so can't relate there :D and he did create the CR goal in the same game.
 

Juve_newbie

Junior Member
Jan 11, 2017
108
Cancelo's mistake is not occasional. It happened so many times this season. The games vs Ajax and Atalanta are only stood out just because they are important. He is great attacking fullback/wingback but he is not that indispensable to our squad. Sell him and don't bring any good names is terrible, but sacrified him to get M-Savic/Ndombele is ok
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
691
Good for you, but a mistake is a mistake. He cost us two goals in two important games. Mental gymnastics don't change those facts.
It's not mental gymnastics, I honestly don't care much for Coppa Italias and consider those the least important competitive games of the season. ok, second least important behind SuperCoppa.
 

s4tch

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contributor
Mar 23, 2015
9,832
you don't get a player that's good at moving the ball forward and capable of breaking opposing teams press without him losing the ball in dangerous places at times. besides that Ajax goal is not 100% on him, if Cancelo had someone like Benatia or Chiellini not Rugani behind him when he made that mistake, we're probably not conceding there. Rugani just jogged back there and positioned himself horribly.
okay, so rugani should anticipate blatant mistakes too. that goal was on cancelo, no two ways about it.

i wouldn't sell him either because of his potential, but let's face it, from a purely defensive point of view, he's a mediocre footballer. that's why allegri opted to emre can covering cancelo against atleti, and that's why allegri also said that cancelo is an interesting player because he has goals in his legs. my guess is that with allegri remaining as our coach, cancelo would have played a lot higher on the pitch, even at the expense of costa or bernardeschi.

back to your original point: he's not a guarantee when the team is under pressure, especially not if he's our closest player to szczesny. he's a very good attacking player, he has every skill to become the next camoranesi for us, but as a defender, i have some questions about his consistency.
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
691
Cancelo's mistake is not occasional. It happened so many times this season. The games vs Ajax and Atalanta are only stood out just because they are important. He is great attacking fullback/wingback but he is not that indispensable to our squad. Sell him and don't bring any good names is terrible, but sacrified him to get M-Savic/Ndombele is ok
that's exactly the same Pogba and Higuain approach that fucked us in the past, ruining one part of the team to improve another is a vicious cycle in which the best scenario is stagnating at the same level

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okay, so rugani should anticipate blatant mistakes too. that goal was on cancelo, no two ways about it.

i wouldn't sell him either because of his potential, but let's face it, from a purely defensive point of view, he's a mediocre footballer. that's why allegri opted to emre can covering cancelo against atleti, and that's why allegri also said that cancelo is an interesting player because he has goals in his legs. my guess is that with allegri remaining as our coach, cancelo would have played a lot higher on the pitch, even on the expense of costa or bernardeschi.

back to your original point: he's not a guarantee when the team is under pressure, especially not if he's our closest player to szczesny. he's a very good attacking player, he has every skill to become the next camoranesi for us, but as a defender, i have some questions about his consistency.
Rugani shouldn't jog back to his penalty area and position himself horribly, ever since Cancelo lost the ball Rugani gave that Ajax guy way too much space, neither Benatia nor Chiellini nor other worthy center back would do that.

again, the goal is on Cancelo, but Rugani failed to give him any kind of helping hand there

regarding Cancelo and defending - he's great in the final third, but his most useful skill is the ability to drive the ball forward with skill and linkups, something only Costa was able to do consistently for us before. his defending isn't wc, but for me the trade-off is worth it and there are not any RBs out there I'd trade for who'd cost 50m. I'd trade him for TAA in a heartbeat, but Liverpool wouldn't sell that guy even for 100m probably.
 
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Juve_newbie

Junior Member
Jan 11, 2017
108
Pogba and Higuain situation is different. We don't have any leverage at all. Pogba/Raiola have been prepare for the leaving for a long time, and we basically agreed to sell him that summer as we can not afford his demanded wage. Higuain is our only well-knowed and at the same time good striker we can sign at that time to soften the loss of Pogba. This is bad, but when you don't have enough money, that is what you must do to stay relevant. And the outcome was not bad, we reached the Final of CL after that.
 

il brutto

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
7,254
our club considers every single serie a, cl and coppa game to be important, of course.

you singled out coppa italia knockouts as a game that's more important than others and I disagree.
It's more important because it's a knockout game, meaning you can't fuckup or you are out. You can recover after losing a game in the Serie A. Should be pretty basic.
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
691
It's more important because it's a knockout game, meaning you can't fuckup or you are out. You can recover after losing a game in the Serie A. Should be pretty basic.
well you see it as important because obviously to you the Coppa matters. to me it doesn't matter much, let me put it this way:
I wouldn't (and no sane person would) sack the coach because we got kicked out of Coppa Italia. but repeatedly failing in CL and, God forbid, fucking up the league just once would have more serious consequences. Coppa is nice to have, but it's like a bonus thing compared to the other two competitions. that's why the argument Cancelo did fine in Serie A matches, but once the big occasion came vs Atalanta in Coppa Italia, he cracked under pressure seems silly to me.


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Pogba and Higuain situation is different. We don't have any leverage at all. Pogba/Raiola have been prepare for the leaving for a long time, and we basically agreed to sell him that summer as we can not afford his demanded wage. Higuain is our only well-knowed and at the same time good striker we can sign at that time to soften the loss of Pogba. This is bad, but when you don't have enough money, that is what you must do to stay relevant. And the outcome was not bad, we reached the Final of CL after that.
replacing Pogba with Sturaro/Rincon/Hernanes in midfield to have Higuain up top seems similar to replacing Cancelo with MDS in defense to have SMS in midfield (more like 2/3 of SMS, 50m doesn't get you there).
 

il brutto

Senior Member
Jun 6, 2015
7,254
well you see it as important because obviously to you the Coppa matters. to me it doesn't, let me put it this way:
I wouldn't (and no sane person would) sack the coach because we got kicked out of Coppa Italia. but repeatedly failing in CL and, God forbid, fucking up the league just once would have more serious consequences. Coppa is nice to have, but it's like a bonus thing compared to the other two competitions.
Of course Coppa Italia isn't as important as the Serie A, I've not seen anyone claim otherwise. Again the fact is that you can lose the Coppa in one game while you can't lose the Serie A in one game. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

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that's why the argument Cancelo did fine in Serie A matches, but once the big occasion came vs Atalanta in Coppa Italia, he cracked under pressure seems silly to me.
Who's saying this? I certainly aren't. I said that he made two costly mistakes in knockout games and that is simply a fact.

Also I'm pretty sure he also made plenty of mistakes in Serie A, but I simply don't remember those as:

A) I wasn't paying much attention
B) They didn't lead to a goal

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by trying to deny the importance of his mistakes. Anyways I rate Cancelo, but he simply has to learn when to take the easy option to avoid unnecessary risks.
 
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DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
38,294
Also I'm pretty sure he also made plenty of mistakes in Serie A, but I simply don't remember those as:

A) I wasn't paying much attention
B) They didn't lead to a goal

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by trying to deny the importance of his mistakes. Anyways I rate Cancelo, but he simply has to learn when to take the easy option to avoid unnecessary risks.
Of course. I can't remember exactly how often i cursed at him for losing the ball in dangerous areas, taking way too long to pass the ball/finally make a decision (which often turned out to be the worst one he could have possibly made)
and leaving a gaping hole on our right defensive side. The latter was especially annoying against Ajax in the first leg.

I still wouldn't sell him though. In form he's great going forward and there are no good fullbacks on the market, meaning we might end up with a player who's worse.

Said it before, i wouldn't sell him for reasons mentioned above, but at the same time i won't lose my sleep over it. His defending is dubious, to say the least.
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
691
Not at all. Why does selling Cancelo mean MDS is the starters? are we handicapped in the market? it's the 13th of June a replacement can be bought.
who can you get for 50m though?

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Of course Coppa Italia isn't as important as the Serie A, I've not seen anyone claim otherwise. Again the fact is that you can lose the Coppa in one game while you can't lose the Serie A in one game. This really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

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Who's saying this? I certainly aren't. I said that he made two costly mistakes in knockout games and that is simply a fact.

Also I'm pretty sure he also made plenty of mistakes in Serie A, but I simply don't remember those as:

A) I wasn't paying much attention
B) They didn't lead to a goal

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by trying to deny the importance of his mistakes. Anyways I rate Cancelo, but he simply has to learn when to take the easy option to avoid unnecessary risks.
shit, we're really not on the same wavelength here. :D Coppa isn't as important, but it's important to point out that it was a knockout game, which makes the mistake more costly than regular Serie A game, which is more important overall, but is not a knockout tournament, that's really were we disagree? :D I really like you as a poster, lets end this here and now, don't want things to get sour over petty differences, forza juve :beer:
 
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