[ITA] Serie A 2011/2012 (16 Viewers)

[Azzurri7]

90 as well; that goal he scored against the Czechs was magnificent. In 94 he single-handedly guided Italy to the final, scoring in almost every game. The team was indebted to him; without him they looked so pedestrian. It's not his fault Italy lost on penalties in both tournaments. Well, maybe it partially is

And that's an achievement? For the goal he scored against the Czechs?

 

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[Alen]

I think he's referring to 94'.

I believe so too. But what exactly about it?

I remember that world cup like it was played yesterday. Italy had a really good team, which as Italy usually does, started slow and didn't play attacking football. It was still a team that had Maldini, Baresi, Donadoni, Costacurta, Tassotti, Albertini and Massaro, who came to the WC as CL winners, destroying Barcelona 4:0 in the final. And that's in addition to some other star players.
Baggio, in 3 knock out matches, was indeed the star of the team and played excellent, but it's not like he was single handedly carrying Slovakia or Honduras to a WC final. He was simply the best player of an excellent Italian squad.
Sneijder did the same thing for Holland at WC 2010.

Baggio was a fantastic player and talent. I used to put him slightly above Del Piero. Now, when I can compare their careers, when I can think of their best moments, the periods when they had the form of their lives and everything else, I can claim that Del Piero was the better player. Slightly better, but better.

I think that Del Piero's form in the recent years is clouding the judgement of many. For Baggio we remember only his best period while for Del Piero we're under the influence of yesterday's happenings and performances.
If they were both in their prime and played together in Juventus today, I think that DP would have been the star of the team.

 

[Bianconero81]

Maybe, maybe not. This is one argument you are not going to win Alen. There is no way you are going to convince me. To each his own.

@ Rab: He was a breakout star @ that WC. That goal against the Czechs was the icing on the cake, but when given a chance he shone in that tournament as well.

 

[Azzurri7]

Maybe, maybe not. This is one argument you are not going to win Alen. There is no way you are going to convince me. To each his own.

@ Rab: He was a breakout star @ that WC. That goal against the Czechs was the icing on the cake, but when given a chance he shone in that tournament as well.

Beautiful goal and nothing more.

 

[Bianconero81]

Did I say otherwise? It was the icing on the cake after a good tournament for him. Bear in mind, he wasn't really considered a starter, more of a breakout star in Italia 90.

You're really clutching @ straws here Rab

 

[Alen]

Maybe, maybe not. This is one argument you are not going to win Alen. There is no way you are going to convince me. To each his own.

I'm not even trying to
I just found it strange that for players who had such long careers at the top level, you only used 3 WC knock out matches against Nigeria, Spain and Bulgaria as the decider which separates Baggio from DP and puts him on the top.

 

[Bianconero81]

He was also a very consistent performer at club level, whether it be with Fiorentina, Juventus, Brescia, or Bologna. His club career wasn't as stellar as DP's, that is obvious, but then he wasn't afforded the same opportunities as DP. Every time his team got a chance to compete in the CL, he was shipped off. It happened with both Juventus and Milan IIRC. His spells at Milan and Inter were nothing to shout about, but his club career was still very impressive, just not as much as DP.

 

[Raz]

I like the way you use your wordes. "He is no where" "He might have". For a while I was wondering if we're talking about Alessandro Del Piero or Marco Di Vaio.

For someone who has mocked Juve's Captain and made fun of him in his most difficult moments, I don't expect you to agree with Jack.

What I meant by "might have" is that he was really really good when he was at his peak, but still he was nowhere near Baggio, Baggio is on another level compared to DP.

And my fun was not with the captain but with all the overidolizing of him.

 

[Raz]

Beautiful goal and nothing more.

That's what I love in this place, when it's DP the bautiful goal becomes otherwise it's suddenly is irelevant.

 

[king Ale]

What I meant by "might have" is that he was really really good when he was at his peak, but still he was nowhere near Baggio, Baggio is on another level compared to DP.

And my fun was not with the captain but with all the overidolizing of him.

There are not so many players in the world who can match Ale at his peak before his injuries.

 

[Raz]

There are not so many players in the world who can match Ale at his peak before his injuries.

That's debatable. It's just my opinion on their skill and ability that's all.

 

[king Ale]

That's debatable. It's just my opinion on their skill and ability that's all.

And we judge people based on their opinions.

It might as well be your opinion that Cristiano Zanetti is as good as Xavi but only because that's your opinion doesn't make it look less ridiculous.

 

[Emmet]

Baggio

Club honours
Vicenza
• Serie C1: 1984–85
Juventus
• Serie A: 1994–95
• Coppa Italia: 1994–95
• UEFA Cup: 1993
Milan
• Serie A: 1995–96
International honours
Italy National Football Team
• FIFA World Cup: (runner-up): 1994
• FIFA World Cup: (3rd place): 1990

Del Piero
Club
Juventus
• Serie A (5): 1994–95, 1996–97, 1997–98, 2001–02, 2002–03 (won two more: 2004–05, 2005–06, taken in Calciopoli.)
• Serie B (1): 2006–2007
• Supercoppa Italiana (4): 1995, 1997, 2002, 2003
• Coppa Italia (1): 1994–95
• UEFA Champions League (1): 1995–96
• UEFA Super Cup (1): 1996
• UEFA Intertoto Cup (1): 1999
• Intercontinental Cup (1): 1996
Country
Italy
• FIFA World Cup (1): 2006
• UEFA Under-21 European Championship (2): 1994, 1996
• UEFA European Championship, Runner-up : 2000


I rest my case

What has medals got to do with who's the better footballer? Would you say Trez is a better striker than Batigol because he won twice as much? of course not. Baggio had the misfortune of being at big clubs at the wrong time (he wanted to go to Milan in 1990, not us)

Baggio put in performances for Italy Del Piero could only dream of, the simple fact is that he played way more games and tournaments for italy than Roby did and he flopped in every important game he played in. Italy's team of USA '94 is universally regarded as a solid but dull, dour team lacking imagination and creativity, except for Baggio, he dragged Italy to that final, he took the tournament by the scruff of the neck, it was the last one man show at a World Cup, no player has put their hands all over a World Cup since. His goal against the Czechs announced himself onto the world stage, wasn't an important goal but showed his easily he could skip past players, the goal is always in the top 10 best goals in the history of the WC.

Roberto Baggio of 1990-94 hands down beats Alex in any season you wanna throw up, take this debate outside of a Juve forum and the majority of people would agree Baggio was by far the better player.

 

[Gabriel]

What has medals got to do with who's the better footballer? Would you say Trez is a better striker than Batigol because he won twice as much? of course not. Baggio had the misfortune of being at big clubs at the wrong time (he wanted to go to Milan in 1990, not us)

Baggio put in performances for Italy Del Piero could only dream of, the simple fact is that he played way more games and tournaments for italy than Roby did and he flopped in every important game he played in. Italy's team of USA '94 is universally regarded as a solid but dull, dour team lacking imagination and creativity, except for Baggio, he dragged Italy to that final, he took the tournament by the scruff of the neck, it was the last one man show at a World Cup, no player has put their hands all over a World Cup since. His goal against the Czechs announced himself onto the world stage, wasn't an important goal but showed his easily he could skip past players, the goal is always in the top 10 best goals in the history of the WC.

Roberto Baggio of 1990-94 hands down beats Alex in any season you wanna throw up, take this debate outside of a Juve forum and the majority of people would agree Baggio was by far the better player.

You know, there is this french guy that disagrees with you, he also happens to have been a better player than Baggio.

 

[Azzurri7]

That's what I love in this place, when it's DP the bautiful goal becomes otherwise it's suddenly is irelevant.

Definitely. If you give me two identical goals of Ale and another player, Ale's goal will still look more beautiful. Because it's a combination of beautiful goal, class and charisma.

I look into these details ever since I started following the game.

 

[Azzurri7]

You know, there is this french guy that disagrees with you, he also happens to have been a better player than Baggio.

Zidane

According to Maradona as-well, what others can do with a ball, Ale can do it with orange.

 

[Emmet]

You know, there is this french guy that disagrees with you, he also happens to have been a better player than Baggio.

When did Zidane dominate a WC like Baggio did? in France '98 it was a team effort with no stand out players, in '06 Zidane did reasonably well.

Euro '00 has always been seen as Zidane's tournament

 

[Azzurri7]

When did Zidane dominate a WC like Baggio did? in France '98 it was a team effort with no stand out players, in '06 Zidane did reasonably well.

Euro '00 has always been seen as Zidane's tournament

 

[Emmet]

You seem to forget they had Henry, Ribery, Makelele, Vieria etc.

 

[Mark]

Looks like ex-inter coach Hector Cuper has been caught in some match fixing/betting scandal or something.