Israeli-Palestinian conflict (63 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
This really is a Juve forum with the black and white thinking...
Not wanting civilians bombed to death whilst being trapped in an open air prison = supporting fundamentalist Islam. Got you.
Not wanting civilians bombed to death whilst being trapped in an open air prison = supporting fundamentalist Islam. Got you.
Here I’m talking about the far left, they think Israel is the root to all the problems there and support Palestine blindly, without asking themselves if their own views and ideas are even welcomed by those they blindly support.
I bet many of them are even gay/lesbian, but they’re too stupid to see they would be the first to get thrown out from buildings or tortured for their sexuality if they ever set foot in an islamic country or worse lived there.
Far lefties are so confused at times.
This really is a Juve forum with the black and white thinking...
Not wanting civilians bombed to death whilst being trapped in an open air prison = supporting fundamentalist Islam. Got you.
Not wanting civilians bombed to death whilst being trapped in an open air prison = supporting fundamentalist Islam. Got you.
But the characterization of the Palestinian state as some sort of plucky underdog fighting against an evil oppressor is just plain wrong.
This really is a Juve forum with the black and white thinking...
Not wanting civilians bombed to death whilst being trapped in an open air prison = supporting fundamentalist Islam. Got you.
Not wanting civilians bombed to death whilst being trapped in an open air prison = supporting fundamentalist Islam. Got you.
Are the Palestinians kept in there against their will? If not then there isn't a prison.
Can they get out at will?
Through the border points in Egypt and with working passes they can even go to Israel .
They can probably leave by the sea if they want to.
Are they dependent on Israel ?
Probably .
Did they do anything since Israel left est.2006 to not be?
Did they elect a political party that has in it's doctrine the whipping out all of Isreal from the face of the earth ?
Yes they did and after they whine about why Israel built up a fence to protect itself about these kind of people.
Now ,your turn
Define to us why it's an open air prison.
Use your Hamas propaganda handbook to wow us.
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Can they?
The Washington Post does not believe so: https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...fa3714-68b8-11ee-9753-2b3742e96987_story.html
The Washington Post does not believe so: https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...fa3714-68b8-11ee-9753-2b3742e96987_story.html
It's behind a pay wall, can't read.
Can Israel impose on Egypt to not allow Gaza Palestinians through they're border?
They are their brethren , are they not?
If Egypt doesn't allow it then that's their right just as much as it's Israel's right to protect their borders.
Post the full article if you can please.
Can Israel impose on Egypt to not allow Gaza Palestinians through they're border?
They are their brethren , are they not?
If Egypt doesn't allow it then that's their right just as much as it's Israel's right to protect their borders.
Post the full article if you can please.
You are moving the goalposts.
You said they could leave. Now you say that if they can't leave, that's not Israel's fault but Egypt's. But even if it were, that's not something that the Palestinians can change. And it doesn't take away the fact Israel does not allow them to leave either.
So yes. It's an open air prison.
"Why don’t they just leave? As Israel’s furious retaliation for last weekend’s Hamas attack devastates large swathes of the Gaza strip, killing hundreds and maiming thousands of Palestinians, it is not unreasonable to wonder why the 2.3 million civilians living in the tiny enclave don’t flee to safer ground. The question will acquire greater urgency in the days ahead, given the high likelihood of a ground invasion by the Israeli Defense Forces — which will mean days, weeks and even months of grueling street-by-street, house-by-house battles.
The short answer to that question is: They can’t. Before I explain why, consider the lay of the land and the situation in which Gazans find themselves right now.
At 139 square miles, the Gaza Strip is approximately the size of Philadelphia, with a third more people. There is very little open space within the enclave where 2 million people can hunker down and wait for the fighting to end. The siege imposed by Israel is designed, in the words of Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, to leave Gaza with “no electricity, no food, no water, no gas - it’s all closed.”.
The Israeli Defense Forces say the bombing campaign that is currently reducing entire Gazan neighborhoods to rubble is targeted at known Hamas hideouts, control centers and weapons caches. But the terrorist group deliberately hides out in densely populated areas, using the large numbers of Palestinians there as human shields. Bombs and rockets — and collapsing buildings — make no distinctions between combatants and civilians.
Many Gazans are being forced out of their homes and neighborhoods, but there’s nowhere safe for them to go.
Under normal circumstances, every human instinct would be to get out of the strip. And you’d expect Gazans to take heart from reports of the US and Egypt discussing so-called humanitarian corridors through which they might be able to escape.
But none of the circumstances prevailing in Gaza is normal, and not just because of the current war. Since Hamas took control of the enclave in 2006, a few months after Israel withdrew its forces from the strip, most of the Palestinians living there have essentially been penned into what human-rights groups call the “world’s largest open-air prison.”
Now, back to the question: Why don’t they just leave?
The first thing to consider is whether they want to. The vast majority of people living in Gaza are already refugees from towns and villages now in Israel and in the West Bank. Although there is little optimism they will return to their ancestral homes, most are keenly aware that the strip is the only place where they can cling to their identity as Palestinians. They fear that if they leave this last patch of homeland, they may not be able to — or allowed to — come back. To become a refugee twice removed is a fate few would welcome.
War shakes convictions and changes priorities, so it is conceivable that many Gazans would now be open to leaving to save their families and themselves from injury or death. Some reports say many are heading southward to the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt.
But that journey is perilous and may be pointless. Not only do the Palestinians fleeing south run the gauntlet of Israeli bombs, but they also risk the wrath of Hamas. The terrorist group has closed the border in the past, and although it handed over control of the crossing to the Palestinian Authority five years ago, its gunmen keep an eye on comings and goings —and are not above exemplary executions to frighten the populace.
Those who brave the risks to get to Rafah can’t be sure of any rewards. The Egyptian authorities have closed their side of the crossing to prevent the Palestinians from breaking out. Although the Biden administration is pressing for it to be reopened, the regime of General Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi is loath to take on the responsibility of hosting thousands of refugees.
If this sounds cruel, it is consistent with longstanding policy: Egypt is solicitous about the problems of Palestinians but doesn’t want them on its soil. Cairo is already trotting out its usual excuses of poverty and security: Egypt can’t afford to host refugees, and they might cause trouble.
Other Arab nations offer variations of those lines. Jordan already has too many Palestinians (they make up more than half the population of the kingdom) and too many refugees from other places, such as Syria. Turkey, which is sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, likewise has its hands full of refugees from other parts.
The Gulf Arab states have plenty of land and no shortage of money; Saudi Arabia is currently spending hundreds of billions of dollars building a city it doesn’t really need. Their traditional excuse for not taking in Palestinians is that it would let Israel off the hook.
There are questions to be asked about why Iran, Hamas’s sponsor and self-proclaimed champion of the Palestinians, doesn’t offer to host them. And why the European nations, which wring their hands when Gaza is bombed, can find no place for at least a few of the victims.But by now, you get my point: The civilians in Gaza can’t leave, and it’s a tragedy twice over that nobody wants them anyway.".
You said they could leave. Now you say that if they can't leave, that's not Israel's fault but Egypt's. But even if it were, that's not something that the Palestinians can change. And it doesn't take away the fact Israel does not allow them to leave either.
So yes. It's an open air prison.
"Why don’t they just leave? As Israel’s furious retaliation for last weekend’s Hamas attack devastates large swathes of the Gaza strip, killing hundreds and maiming thousands of Palestinians, it is not unreasonable to wonder why the 2.3 million civilians living in the tiny enclave don’t flee to safer ground. The question will acquire greater urgency in the days ahead, given the high likelihood of a ground invasion by the Israeli Defense Forces — which will mean days, weeks and even months of grueling street-by-street, house-by-house battles.
The short answer to that question is: They can’t. Before I explain why, consider the lay of the land and the situation in which Gazans find themselves right now.
At 139 square miles, the Gaza Strip is approximately the size of Philadelphia, with a third more people. There is very little open space within the enclave where 2 million people can hunker down and wait for the fighting to end. The siege imposed by Israel is designed, in the words of Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, to leave Gaza with “no electricity, no food, no water, no gas - it’s all closed.”.
The Israeli Defense Forces say the bombing campaign that is currently reducing entire Gazan neighborhoods to rubble is targeted at known Hamas hideouts, control centers and weapons caches. But the terrorist group deliberately hides out in densely populated areas, using the large numbers of Palestinians there as human shields. Bombs and rockets — and collapsing buildings — make no distinctions between combatants and civilians.
Many Gazans are being forced out of their homes and neighborhoods, but there’s nowhere safe for them to go.
Under normal circumstances, every human instinct would be to get out of the strip. And you’d expect Gazans to take heart from reports of the US and Egypt discussing so-called humanitarian corridors through which they might be able to escape.
But none of the circumstances prevailing in Gaza is normal, and not just because of the current war. Since Hamas took control of the enclave in 2006, a few months after Israel withdrew its forces from the strip, most of the Palestinians living there have essentially been penned into what human-rights groups call the “world’s largest open-air prison.”
Now, back to the question: Why don’t they just leave?
The first thing to consider is whether they want to. The vast majority of people living in Gaza are already refugees from towns and villages now in Israel and in the West Bank. Although there is little optimism they will return to their ancestral homes, most are keenly aware that the strip is the only place where they can cling to their identity as Palestinians. They fear that if they leave this last patch of homeland, they may not be able to — or allowed to — come back. To become a refugee twice removed is a fate few would welcome.
War shakes convictions and changes priorities, so it is conceivable that many Gazans would now be open to leaving to save their families and themselves from injury or death. Some reports say many are heading southward to the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt.
But that journey is perilous and may be pointless. Not only do the Palestinians fleeing south run the gauntlet of Israeli bombs, but they also risk the wrath of Hamas. The terrorist group has closed the border in the past, and although it handed over control of the crossing to the Palestinian Authority five years ago, its gunmen keep an eye on comings and goings —and are not above exemplary executions to frighten the populace.
Those who brave the risks to get to Rafah can’t be sure of any rewards. The Egyptian authorities have closed their side of the crossing to prevent the Palestinians from breaking out. Although the Biden administration is pressing for it to be reopened, the regime of General Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi is loath to take on the responsibility of hosting thousands of refugees.
If this sounds cruel, it is consistent with longstanding policy: Egypt is solicitous about the problems of Palestinians but doesn’t want them on its soil. Cairo is already trotting out its usual excuses of poverty and security: Egypt can’t afford to host refugees, and they might cause trouble.
Other Arab nations offer variations of those lines. Jordan already has too many Palestinians (they make up more than half the population of the kingdom) and too many refugees from other places, such as Syria. Turkey, which is sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, likewise has its hands full of refugees from other parts.
The Gulf Arab states have plenty of land and no shortage of money; Saudi Arabia is currently spending hundreds of billions of dollars building a city it doesn’t really need. Their traditional excuse for not taking in Palestinians is that it would let Israel off the hook.
There are questions to be asked about why Iran, Hamas’s sponsor and self-proclaimed champion of the Palestinians, doesn’t offer to host them. And why the European nations, which wring their hands when Gaza is bombed, can find no place for at least a few of the victims.But by now, you get my point: The civilians in Gaza can’t leave, and it’s a tragedy twice over that nobody wants them anyway.".
"
Some reports say many are heading southward to the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt.
But that journey is perilous and may be pointless. Not only do the Palestinians fleeing south run the gauntlet of Israeli bombs, but they also risk the wrath of Hamas. The terrorist group has closed the border in the past, and although it handed over control of the crossing to the Palestinian Authority five years ago, its gunmen keep an eye on comings and goings —and are not above exemplary executions to frighten the populace."
No wonder since Hamas is their warden himself.
"The Egyptian authorities have closed their side of the crossing to prevent the Palestinians from breaking out. Although the Biden administration is pressing for it to be reopened, the regime of General Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi is loath to take on the responsibility of hosting thousands of refugees."
Some more brotherly love I see.
As I see it you want Isreal to open it's borders to those that want to whipe them of the face of the earth , while saying it's Egypt business if they allow them through or not.
Also it says "open air prison" in the context of the massacre . They are not debating "an open air prison" when things were calm which is definetly not for the reasons I stated in that post.
Some reports say many are heading southward to the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt.
But that journey is perilous and may be pointless. Not only do the Palestinians fleeing south run the gauntlet of Israeli bombs, but they also risk the wrath of Hamas. The terrorist group has closed the border in the past, and although it handed over control of the crossing to the Palestinian Authority five years ago, its gunmen keep an eye on comings and goings —and are not above exemplary executions to frighten the populace."
No wonder since Hamas is their warden himself.
"The Egyptian authorities have closed their side of the crossing to prevent the Palestinians from breaking out. Although the Biden administration is pressing for it to be reopened, the regime of General Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi is loath to take on the responsibility of hosting thousands of refugees."
Some more brotherly love I see.
As I see it you want Isreal to open it's borders to those that want to whipe them of the face of the earth , while saying it's Egypt business if they allow them through or not.
Also it says "open air prison" in the context of the massacre . They are not debating "an open air prison" when things were calm which is definetly not for the reasons I stated in that post.
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Well if you say "open air prison" like Israel is the only country responsible for, that's definitely not the case.
The term is always used to throw shade at the other side(Israel) as if they are the sole responsible.
I can't argue with the article that in this situation(After the massacre ) it looks as if it is.
But in peace time it definitely wasn't.
And I definitely didn't move the goal posts as you said . I just provided context for why it is happening .
From my understanding it's happening because:
Israel - doesn't let them cross the border for obvious resons
Egyp - because of financial reasons
Hamas - because they need their meat shields.
Thx for providing the article.
The term is always used to throw shade at the other side(Israel) as if they are the sole responsible.
I can't argue with the article that in this situation(After the massacre ) it looks as if it is.
But in peace time it definitely wasn't.
And I definitely didn't move the goal posts as you said . I just provided context for why it is happening .
From my understanding it's happening because:
Israel - doesn't let them cross the border for obvious resons
Egyp - because of financial reasons
Hamas - because they need their meat shields.
Thx for providing the article.
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This really is a Juve forum with the black and white thinking...
Not wanting civilians bombed to death whilst being trapped in an open air prison = supporting fundamentalist Islam. Got you.
Not wanting civilians bombed to death whilst being trapped in an open air prison = supporting fundamentalist Islam. Got you.
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