Israeli-Palestinian conflict (80 Viewers)

[Ahmed]

But all of this means that the Arab world must be completely dependant on international organisations such as the UN.

But you choose to insult them. Sure, it's slow, sure, it doesn't always look right, but it's the only shot you have, no?

not exactly...as we all know these countries do have a lot of natural wealth, but instead of improving the country's infrastructure and bettering the standard of life of its citizens, they take the easy path of keeping it for themselves in foreign bank accounts

 

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[Fred]

Of course Egypt isn't democratic.



But one of the things I don't get it that apparently the people of those countries are more concerned about the atrocities in Gaza, than they are about the atrocities in their own country. Perhaps if they could set their own country straight, they could actually do something.

Thats easier said than done. Over here, we're taught from a young age to listen and obey like little puppies. A small example.

A few days ago, a few kids here in my neighborhood got together to protest on what is happening in Gaza. Police intervened and took the everyone of those kids back home and warned their parents not to let their kids do this sort of thing again.

Bear in mind those were kids between 11-14 years old. What message do you think that gives them growing up?

I'll say it again, Arab countries are pathetic. They're biggest fear is democracy, and they'd do anything to fight it.

 

[BlanquiNegro]

You said that you want an entire nation to be wiped from the earth surface and underground if possible.
Those jewish radicals from that video Ahmed posted said that they want the muslims to be wiped from the earth.

If they are radicals, why aren't you a radical?

Here we go again
They are not radicals and so do i

Its quite difficult for me to clarify that and its harder to convince an obviously neutral person like you that wiping eachother is something related to the religion
Muslims and Jews are nothing but pure enemies based on that
and trust me if one of them have the chance to completely vanish the other there will be not s single inch of hisitance

its quite difficult to isolate religions from this conflict becaues its simply based on it
All the Muslims completely beleives in the fact that the Jew want them out of this earth and same thing goes for the Jew
If you wanna call that beleives radicals then its but be sure that this will make all of us Muslims and Jews just an extremists
No exclusion because we both know that the hate between us is to deep and impossible to get rid of it


as i told u its quite difficult for me to convince you with that

 

[CheSchifo!]

Intelligence forces are so strong in the Arab countries as the regimes feel the need to always keep an eye on any intention for the people before allowing it to happen. That way and after Arab people saw the bad destiny of those who talked against the regimes made the Arab people so scared and have no trust at all with other people as each one thinks that that the other one is one of the Intelligence men. That led people to become so indifferent and their feelings dies with time passing as they couldn't express their feelings publicly.

Imagine for example that in Tunisia, each perosn who prays has to choose one mosque and the name of that mosque is written on the identity card of the citizen. If he tries to pray in another mosque, he gets imprisoned immediately. This procedure was imposed because the regime there found that this idea might help it to decrease any problems in the mosques as all the prayers' names are known to the authorities.

But in the end they're allowing the situation in their own land to happen, but do protest against what's happening in Gaza.. That's what I find strange. Is it because the consequences of protesting against the war are less direct? I mean, it's easier to shout and yell, when you're not going to be imprisoned.

Lol, why do you wonder when you already know the answers?

Sometimes because it's less arrogant, sometimes because I genuinely wonder. In this case because it's less arrogant and because I was hoping for some counterevidence.

Thats easier said than done. Over here, we're taught from a young age to listen and obey like little puppies. A small example.

A few days ago, a few kids here in my neighborhood got together to protest on what is happening in Gaza. Police intervened and took the everyone of those kids back home and warned their parents not to let their kids do this sort of thing again.

Bear in mind those were kids between 11-14 years old. What message do you think that gives them growing up?

I'll say it again, Arab countries are pathetic. They're biggest fear is democracy, and they'd do anything to fight it.

Yeah, I've heard about that. I have also got a friend who lived in Egypt for a while and he said that for some odd reason he was always being followed around by the police. They fined him for nothing a couple of times. But you're saying that their mentality actually has been altered?

 

[CheSchifo!]

Here we go again
They are not radicals and so do i

Its quite difficult for me to clarify that and its harder to convince an obviously neutral person like you that wiping eachother is something related to the religion
Muslims and Jews are nothing but pure enemies based on that
and trust me if one of them have the chance to completely vanish the other there will be not s single inch of hisitance

its quite difficult to isolate religions from this conflict becaues its simply based on it
All the Muslims completely beleives in the fact that the Jew want them out of this earth and same thing goes for the Jew
If you wanna call that beleives radicals then its but be sure that this will make all of us Muslims and Jews just an extremists
No exclusion because we both know that the hate between us is to deep and impossible to get rid of it


as i told its quite difficult for me to convince you with that

If you say you want all Jews dead, because you're a muslim and you think that those two religions cannot co-exist, you qualify as a radical.

There's nothing more radical than that.

 

[Alen]

Intelligence forces are so strong in the Arab countries as the regimes feel the need to always keep an eye on any intention for the people before allowing it to happen. That way and after Arab people saw the bad destiny of those who talked against the regimes made the Arab people so scared and have no trust at all with other people as each one thinks that that the other one is one of the Intelligence men. That led people to become so indifferent and their feelings dies with time passing as they couldn't express their feelings publicly.

Exactly the same things were happening until ~20 years ago in Europe, in the communist countries. I wonder if you'll be given the same chances (or more importantly, if it will be in interest of the great powers) as the eastern Europeans to change the system.

 

[ReBeL]

But in the end they're allowing the situation in their own land to happen, but do protest against what's happening in Gaza.. That's what I find strange. Is it because the consequences of protesting against the war are less direct? I mean, it's easier to shout and yell, when you're not going to be imprisoned.

The protests you see in the Arab countries are well surrounded by police forces in order to keep them under theri eyes. Protests are forbidden in most of the countries, but they allow them from time to time just to make people decrease their tension.

 

[Fred]

It must be a thinking pattern that's different here in Europe. It really doesn't make sense to me.

What I wonder about as well is this:

is democracy an Arab concept? I know it's a human right and all, but hasn't it always been a true western value? Or is it something that has existed throughout muslim and Arab history as well?

It did exist in the era of Caliph's(i think thats what its called in English). I wouldn't say its a western value. As it is also written in the Koran, that rulers should be decided by Shura, which basically means consulting the people to choose the ruler. The term democracy was coined by the West, but i wouldn't call it a western value.

The Ummayad caliphs were the first to inherit power, which if you read the Koran is against the rules of Islam.

 

[ReBeL]

Exactly the same things were happening until ~20 years ago in Europe, in the communist countries. I wonder if you'll be given the same chances (or more importantly, if it will be in interest of the great powers) as the eastern Europeans to change the system.

I don't think that will happen soon as long as USA controls the whole world and has its puppies as Arab leaders.

 

[Alen]

It did exist in the era of Caliph's(i think thats what its called in English). I wouldn't say its a western value. As it is also written in the Koran, that rulers should be decided by Shura, which basically means consulting the people to choose the ruler. The term democracy was coined by the West, but i wouldn't call it a western value.

The Ummayad caliphs were the first to inherit power, which if you read the Koran is against the rules of Islam.

Democracy is a Greek word and it existed in Ancient Greece since +2000 years ago.

 

[Fred]

Exactly the same things were happening until ~20 years ago in Europe, in the communist countries. I wonder if you'll be given the same chances (or more importantly, if it will be in interest of the great powers) as the eastern Europeans to change the system.

Libya is one of the few countries still following the Soviet Union model. Geddaffi is one of Karl Marx biggest fans. Have you ever heard of the Green Book?

 

[Fred]

Democracy is a Greek word and it existed in Greece since +2000 years ago.

Yes i am aware of that.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Two religion can live together btw.Muslims and Jews lived together without slaughtering each other until Western World interfere in case.

 

[Alen]

Libya is one of the few countries still following the Soviet Union model. Geddaffi is one of Karl Marx biggest fans. Have you ever heard of the Green Book?

no

 

[Azzurri7]

I don't think that will happen soon as long as USA controls the whole world and has its puppies as Arab leaders.

I keep on laughing each time I remember how they celebrated in the Arab countries when Obama won over McCain thinking everything is going to be solved.

 

[Fred]

no

Its the basis for the economic, social and political institution in Libya. It outlines Geddaffi's political philosophy.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8744/readgb.htm

A ripoff of the Communist Manifesto if i ever saw one.

 

[Il Re]

I keep on laughing each time I remember how they celebrated in the Arab countries when Obama won over McCain thinking everything is going to be solved.

me too

 

[CheSchifo!]

It did exist in the era of Caliph's(i think thats what its called in English). I wouldn't say its a western value. As it is also written in the Koran, that rulers should be decided by Shura, which basically means consulting the people to choose the ruler. The term democracy was coined by the West, but i wouldn't call it a western value.

The Ummayad caliphs were the first to inherit power, which if you read the Koran is against the rules of Islam.

So there would be an Arab precedent. That's interesting, because it is always portrayed as western. There are a few other cultures in which there is some sort of democracy, but it is often not as direct as the western form of it was/is.

I know this is a bit of a difficult issue here and I'm sure that I'm going to get a lot of people angry, but: aren't the people as such responsible for allowing another form of government than democracy to exist? I know a lot of people could get killed, I realise that, but that's what it took in almost all countries that are democratic right now as well. Isn't it a bit too easy to be the victim?

Two religion can live together btw.Muslims and Jews lived together without slaughtering each other until Western World interfere in case.

That's blatantly untrue.

 

[BlanquiNegro]

If you say you want all Jews dead, because you're a muslim and you think that those two religions cannot co-exist, you qualify as a radical.

There's nothing more radical than that.

Its your opinion and standards
While i call any one support israel and their existance a radical as well

religions can co-exist and live in peace in one condition
and this condition is to respect the rights of the others to live in peace and dignity
and of-course invasions,occupying, slaughtering doesnt go with that

What i really care about is the act not the talk
There might be some Jews want to live in peace with muslims but what is happening in Gaza is not reflecting that in anyway
Actually what Israel is doing now in Gaza is simply wiping the Palestinians
I said that i hope to wake up one day to find the world without what so called State Of Israel
You are calling this radical
But Israel is implying that hopes , acting to make sure that it will be for real

you cann't ask someone who lost his identity, home, family, dignity, sons and daughters just everything that he should have as live with as a human being
you cannt ask him just to forget it and get over it and make peace

you just cannt do that
you cann't forgive and forget and thats exactly the reason why there are PPL u easily call'em radicals while there r not
they just cann't foget and forgive
and I am one of them

call me whatever you want now

 

[CheSchifo!]

Its your opinion and standards
While i call any one support israel and their existance a radical as well

religions can co-exist and live in peace in one condition
and this condition is to respect the rights of the others to live in peace and dignity
and of-course invasions,occupying, slaughtering doesnt go with that

What i really care about is the act not the talk
There might be some Jews want to live in peace with muslims but what is happening in Gaza is not reflecting that in anyway
Actually what Israel is doing now in Gaza is simply wiping the Palestinians
I said that i hope to wake up one day to find the world without what so called State Of Israel
You are calling this radical
But Israel is implying that hopes , acting to make sure that it will be for real

you cann't ask someone who lost his identity, home, family, dignity, sons and daughters just everything that he should have as live with as a human being
you cannt ask him just to forget it and get over it and make peace

you just cannt do that
you cann't forgive and forget and thats exactly the reason why there are PPL u easily call'em radicals while there r not
they just cann't foget and forgive
and I am one of them

call me whatever you want now

That's very true. But a lot of people hold those standards.

Israel is not simply wiping away all Palestinians. There would be a much easier way to do so. I don't agree with what they're doing, but it's not a genocide, it's not the destroying of a people.