Israeli-Palestinian conflict (54 Viewers)

[Eddy]

Good Evening everyone

Nice to see this thread is back as am I.

I hope all is well. Is Seven still around ? If there's one person I miss talking politics with, it's Mr. Waffles.

I know this is an old post Jack but it is an interesting question you have raised with which I want to answer since I had left ages ago and only continued reading today from where we left off which was...more than 5 months ago.

A Japanese family emigrated to Israel, they have two kids 2 and 5 years old. The family is settled there, the kids are raised there, they go to school, university and start their careers. Are the kids Israeli? Do they get to hold the Israeli nationality?

As you know, the way of thinking around the globe is different, and what I came across while I was studying in the States was that the West thinks quite differently than the East. You probably know this of course, but your question can also be arranged with different nationalities. It's like asking if an Indian can become a Pakistani if he/she/them emigrated to Pakistan and their children grew up and started a life and a career there. In America maybe, but in the Eastern countries, no. Your question I want to answer however, has 2 answers, yes and no. Are the kids Israeli ? Of course not. Do they get to hold the Israeli nationality ? I guess if they went to immigration and applied for it, then yes (depending on what the rules are to obtain an Israeli nationality, as I know Jews who aren't Israeli get it for free).

But at the end of the day, there not Israeli...Only because "Israel" is "land of the Jews" (as they state) and the country is built around it's religion . I'm guessing the Japanese in your question aren't Jews yes ? Theocracy at it's finest. Which you and I are totally against. If they are Jews, and they do become "Israeli" (because there Jews of course), but there is another hidden agenda. Racism. I don't think Israelis are used to seeing any Asian jews and then the stereotyping begins but that is another matter with another answer.

Anyways, back to your question, had the Japanese in your question moved to America and started their lives there, then yes, they would be "that nationality". To Israel and other Eastern countries, especially the Arab ones, no. A Lebanese can't be a Saudi, nor can an Emirati be a Libyan. It all comes down to democracy, which hasn't evolved well enough in the Eastern parts of the world I'm afraid, which is an utter tragedy.
Politics aside, people need to realize that this is our Earth and we are all humans, one race and one race only. The more people realize this, the less wars we have to fight. To start playing geo-political games and moving armies around and talking endless politics is just dumbfounded because it will never reach us anywhere. I feel this race isn't ready for a no-boundary peace loving planet because of religion and other internal bullshit.

 

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[IrishZebra]

If you hold citizenship you are that nationality.

 

[Eddy]

If you hold citizenship you are that nationality.

No you are not. You are from which nation's genes you come from and you have the power and right to choose and decide where you're from. Edit: If you hold citizenship and you are happy with that citizenship, then yes, you are that nationality but I am explaining it in a different way.

 

[Eddy]

IrishZebra: I'm sure ReBeL doesn't consider himself Jordanian even though he holds the nationality but in truth, he is in every sense, part of the Palestinian diaspora. Politically speaking, yes, he is Jordanian bla bla bla he holds that citizenship bla bla bla but at the end of the day, it's only a piece of paper.Anyways, why should you care, Ireland already gained it's independence long ago as I'm sure your ancestors didn't consider themselves British at those times when they had to carry a British citizenship around hence the Easter Rising.

 

[IrishZebra]

No you are not. You are from which nation's genes you come from and you have the power and right to choose and decide where you're from. Edit: If you hold citizenship and you are happy with that citizenship, then yes, you are that nationality but I am explaining it in a different way.

IrishZebra: I'm sure ReBeL doesn't consider himself Jordanian even though he holds the nationality but in truth, he is in every sense, part of the Palestinian diaspora. Politically speaking, yes, he is Jordanian bla bla bla he holds that citizenship bla bla bla but at the end of the day, it's only a piece of paper.Anyways, why should you care, Ireland already gained it's independence long ago as I'm sure your ancestors didn't consider themselves British at those times when they had to carry a British citizenship around hence the Easter Rising.

You understand the nation-state diefference, where have you been for the last six month
From a legal perspective if whatever conditions that a state holds for citizenship (naturalisation, minster for justice approval, birth, marriage etc) are fulfilled and approved by the State then you are a citizen of the state, this is nationality in international law, even though the Nation and the State are too different things as you said about Diaspora consituting part of a nation, being a grouping of people that share similar ethnic social and regilious ties along with the right of self-determination. My point is that legal Nationality = State Citizenship including dual nationalities etc.
There are no citizens of Palestine because there isn't a Palestinian state.



Technically Ireland isn't fully independent btw and remains unfree.

 

[Eddy]

You understand the nation-state diefference, where have you been for the last six month
From a legal perspective if whatever conditions that a state holds for citizenship (naturalisation, minster for justice approval, birth, marriage etc) are fulfilled and approved by the State then you are a citizen of the state, this is nationality in international law, even though the Nation and the State are too different things as you said about Diaspora consituting part of a nation, being a grouping of people that share similar ethnic social and regilious ties along with the right of self-determination. My point is that legal Nationality = State Citizenship including dual nationalities etc.
There are no citizens of Palestine because there isn't a Palestinian state.


Technically Ireland isn't fully independent btw and remains unfree.

I've been studying music for the last six months, that's where I've been.

Regarding your post, you seem to be misunderstanding me. You're telling me things I already know and we are looping back and forward with you trying to explain to me that legal Nationality is State citizenship, which is basically what I said. "If you hold citizenship and you are happy with that citizenship, then yes, you are that nationality". Sure I forgot to add the "International law" part because it is already a given. So I don't really see the point of you trying to explain to me on how and why it is the international law cause I already know and approve this.

In conclusion, in my post to Jack's question, I was comparing the democratic values of the Americas to the Eastern side of the world. The Japanese even if he did get Israeli citizenship, which is a good thing, wouldn't happen in any other Arab state. Let the Japanese decide for himself if he wants to be an Israeli or not, at the end of the day, he decides what nationality he wants, with exception to most countries in the Middle-East. He can tear up that citizenship any day he wants to and get a different one if he desires to. It's only a piece of paper and a political document should not control a man's life of who he is and where he's from.

There are no citizens of Palestine because Israel butchered it too hell in an un-democratic evil way when it could have given them autonomy.

Yes, the Northern Ireland fiasco. That is a different matter which I will not go into because I barely know anything about it present day. I only recently subscribed to the IRA's newsletters so I can get a bit of insight to what's going on. Plus, I'm an admirer of the big fella.

 

[IrishZebra]

Yes, the Northern Ireland fiasco. That is a different matter which I will not go into because I barely know anything about it present day. I only recently subscribed to the IRA's newsletters so I can get a bit of insight to what's going on. Plus, I'm an admirer of the big fella.

I'm aware we went around in circles, this is Juventuz


The IRA? Scum, pure and simple. They are extortionists and bootlegger, murderers and thugs for hire.

I'm a Fianna Fail member with regards to collins, I'm a bigger fan of the Long Fella

 

[JBF]

I'm aware we went around in circles, this is Juventuz


The IRA? Scum, pure and simple. They are extortionists and bootlegger, murderers and thugs for hire.

I'm a Fianna Fail member with regards to collins, I'm a bigger fan of the Long Fella

If you're such a believer of the full independence of Ireland, how the hell do you think you'll get there and plz don't tell me by negotiation crap.

 

[IrishZebra]

If you're such a believer of the full independence of Ireland, how the hell do you think you'll get there and plz don't tell me by negotiation crap.

Referendum and the formation of a completly new country.


This is usually the point where Ja5 comes in and starts being a douche.

 

[Eddy]

I'm aware we went around in circles, this is Juventuz


The IRA? Scum, pure and simple. They are extortionists and bootlegger, murderers and thugs for hire.

I'm a Fianna Fail member with regards to collins, I'm a bigger fan of the Long Fella

Perhaps they are murdering scum now but you cannot undermine that fact that without Michael's IRA, an independent Ireland (disregarding the North) would not have been made independent. I know Michael's IRA avoided civilian deaths at any cost. Michael also wanted to gain the North through a peaceful and democratic way, the way it should have been. Unfortunately, some fag shot him. After that era, the IRA became somewhat more violent and brutal, something which the Big fella would be disgusted by.

 

[IrishZebra]

Perhaps they are murdering scum now but you cannot undermine that fact that without Michael's IRA, an independent Ireland (disregarding the North) would not have been made independent. I know Michael's IRA avoided civilian deaths at any cost. Michael also wanted to gain the North through a peaceful and democratic way, the way it should have been. Unfortunately, some fag shot him. After that era, the IRA became somewhat more violent and brutal, something which the Big fella would be disgusted by.

The IRA is disbanded anyway, now all we have are the Provos PIRA, CIRA and other splinter groups.

 

[Eddy]

Referendum and the formation of a completly new country.


This is usually the point where Ja5 comes in and starts being a douche.

Would you say that formation would include a unified Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail under one flag ? I think it's time to be honest. I feel like the Palestinians could learn a thing or two from Irish politics since both conflicts are quite similar in terms of struggle and oppression and have the closest timelines regarding the incidents. Hamas and Fatah should unite instead of fighting each other like retards and causing more internal struggle.

 

[Alen]

The IRA is disbanded anyway, now all we have are the Provos PIRA, CIRA and other splinter groups.

CIRA is pretty strong around Europe, I believe. The Italian CIRA terrorist group, based in Turin and better known as CIRO, is doing a fantastic terrorism job.

 

[IrishZebra]

Would you say that formation would include a unified Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail under one flag ? I think it's time to be honest. I feel like the Palestinians could learn a thing or two from Irish politics since both conflicts are quite similar in terms of struggle and oppression and have the closest timelines regarding the incidents. Hamas and Fatah should unite instead of fighting each other like retards and causing more internal struggle.

I think we'd need to get rid of Sinn Fein and the DUP etc. If there were to be a unified Ireland it would have to be a fresh start, with a 100% secularly governed country with no scumbags liek Adams or Paisley.

I think the main problem is that people use the Protestant/Catholic thing as an excuse, if there was a new secular constitution with equal status of all religion but pandering to none, the referendum would pass, probably 51-49 but it would pass and Ireland would finally be free

 

[Martin]

Excuse me, free from whom?

 

[IrishZebra]

CIRA is pretty strong around Europe, I believe. The Italian CIRA terrorist group, based in Turin and better known as CIRO, is doing a fantastic terrorism job.

There are other Continuity Irish Republican Army factions abroad ?

 

[IrishZebra]

Excuse me, free from whom?

Free from partition

 

[Eddy]

If you're such a believer of the full independence of Ireland, how the hell do you think you'll get there and plz don't tell me by negotiation crap.

Why ? Why not "negotiation crap" ? War is not the answer to everything.

 

[Eddy]

Excuse me, free from whom?

Zee Germans

I miss you Martin

 

[Alen]

There are other Continuity Irish Republican Army factions abroad ?

Of course, CIRO is just one of them. There is another one led by Ahmadinejad and it's called IRAn.