Israeli-Palestinian conflict (51 Viewers)

[swag]

Hamas is not helping Palestinians in any way, like you said they are only giving excuses to Israel to attack (Israel loves that). Hamas is not going to scare them or make them leave this way.

But I don't agree with you about the USA part Greg, I am with Andy on this. If USA funding Israel, then they are not doing it for nothing, that's because Israel is serving USA politically and financially in middle east, by creating the "Terror" image.

USA leaving middle east would be a big blow financially..

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the U.S. has anything remotely close to clean hands in this matter at all. It's f*ed up.

But political will in this country I can see breaking, as it did with the Civil Rights movement, once the evidence overwhelmingly shows Israel as the aggressor. I don't care how strong we all might think the Israeli lobby is in the U.S. If the Palestinians pulled a non-violent strategy the way that MLK did in Selma, AL and Gandhi did in the Salt March, public opinion would more strongly sway against the pro-Israeli lobby. I have zero doubts about that.

Remember: MLK didn't end racism by any means. He just got enough people to acknowledge the injustice to overturn the status quo. That's all that's necessary with the pro-Israeli lobby here.

 

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[Bjerknes]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the U.S. has anything remotely close to clean hands in this matter at all. It's f*ed up.

But political will in this country I can see breaking, as it did with the Civil Rights movement, once the evidence overwhelmingly shows Israel as the aggressor. I don't care how strong we all might think the Israeli lobby is in the U.S. If the Palestinians pulled a non-violent strategy the way that MLK did in Selma, AL and Gandhi did in the Salt March, public opinion would more strongly sway against the pro-Israeli lobby. I have zero doubts about that.

It depends on what the media conveys.

I'm afraid it's not as simple as you say.

 

[swag]

It depends on what the media conveys.

I'm afraid it's not as simple as you say.

I think it is that simple. Given the entrenched racism in this country prior to the 1960s -- with institutionalized segregation of drinking fountains, separate justice codes, marriage laws, laws of where people could live, etc.? It was unthinkable. But it happened.

Even you must have seen the dividing wall in 8 Mile that separated loan qualification districts in Detroit.

 

[Bjerknes]

I think it is that simple. Given the entrenched racism in this country prior to the 1960s -- with institutionalized segregation of drinking fountains, separate justice codes, etc.? It was unthinkable. But it happened.

But that happened on our own soil. This is much different and depends on how the media conveys the situation. It's much more difficult to know what exactly is going on there.

 

[Snoop]

But that happened on our own soil. This is much different and depends on how the media conveys the situation. It's much more difficult to know what exactly is going on there.

I second that. I bet no one there would have heard anything about Gaza if the war didn't start. Very few in there knows what Palestinians suffered the past years, I bet a lot there never heard about Palestine anyway. Not that I blame them, I probably don't know about a lot of places/problems in the world thanx to the media.

The ugly part of USA's politics is you have two parties to pick one, and both of them don't even talk about what Israel is doing all these years, or what the Arabs are suffering. Both support Israel, and none of them criticize their actions. If you have these two parties in the congress and no one else, then how is the public going to hear/learn exactly what is going on in middle east or Palestine specifically?

 

[Bjerknes]

"Through deception, thou shall conduct war."

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mex.html

 

[swag]

I second that. I bet no one there would have heard anything about Gaza if the war didn't start. Very few in there knows what Palestinians suffered the past years, I bet a lot there never heard about Palestine anyway. Not that I blame them, I probably don't know about a lot of places/problems in the world thanx to the media.

But people are attuned to injustice. The problem is getting that message recognized. The great irony is that for all the media-savviness that effective terrorism depends on, the same is true for non-violence movements

Non-violence movements are effective when they force confrontations and make the ugliness clear. It was when protests in Birmingham, Alabama -- where people even in this country couldn't give a rat's ass about -- turned dogs and firehoses on peaceful protesters that got everyone from the media, the viewing public, to the office of the presidency up in arms.

Non-violence has to be media savvy. Gandhi knew this on the Salt March too, as he encouraged American and other photographers to join and document the march.

And to the Palestinian's benefit, a lot of the world's attention is there... already. This doesn't take much work.

Contrast this with a not entirely dissimilar situation with the 3 million Karen people who are being exterminated by the Burmese government troops. You have another situation where Britain pulls out, the Karen are hoping for their independence after the Japanese are removed from WW II, and since the late 1940s instead they have to live under brutal rule where the Burmese even shoot Karen for just trying to grow food -- as a matter of Burmese government policy.

There's at least as much gravity to the story with the Karen as there is to the Palestinians, but the difference is we already know about the Israel/Palestine situation and have tons of media coverage already. It's ready-made, unlike the Karen.

And if you think the media-consuming American public won't give a damn, think again to South African apartheid. There was a ton of influential movement here to divest investments in South Africa, exert pressure on U.S. gov't policy, etc. In the end, that was quite a successful campaign for something in very foreign lands to Joe Bob in Kentucky. Nelson Mandela probably drew more people on his U.S. tour the year he was released than the Rolling Stones.

 

[Bjerknes]

To those who believe the Zionists don't have a stranglehold over our politics:

"Investigators within the DEA, INS, and FBI have all told FOX News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying is considered career suicide." (20) (emphasis added)

Did you catch that? If a Federal investigator dares to "even suggest" Israeli spying, he has committed "career suicide"! And if a journalist like FOX's Cameron dares to bring this scandal to light, he is told to shut his mouth. If they persist, they may even be called "anti-Semitic" - a label which has served as the kiss of death for many a career. This means that Zionist Mafia can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and however it wants - including orchestrating, financing, executing, and covering up the true story of events in the Middle East, the 9-11 massacre, and the ensuing "War on Terrorism" (war on Israel's enemies).

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hundreds.html

________________

That is pretty obvious though. As soon as one questions them, they claim you're Anti-Semitic. That's just nonsense, but the truth of the matter.

So I still have serious doubts over Americans waking up against Israel... they won't let that happen.

 

[Snoop]

But people are attuned to injustice. The problem is getting that message recognized. The great irony is that for all the media-savviness that effective terrorism depends on, the same is true for non-violence movements

Non-violence movements are effective when they force confrontations and make the ugliness clear. It was when protests in Birmingham, Alabama -- where people even in this country couldn't give a rat's ass about -- turned dogs and firehoses on peaceful protesters that got everyone from the media, the viewing public, to the office of the presidency up in arms.

Non-violence has to be media savvy. Gandhi knew this on the Salt March too, as he encouraged American and other photographers to join and document the march.

And to the Palestinian's benefit, a lot of the world's attention is there... already. This doesn't take much work.

Contrast this with a not entirely dissimilar situation with the 3 million Karen people who are being exterminated by the Burmese government troops. You have another situation where Britain pulls out, the Karen are hoping for their independence after the Japanese are removed from WW II, and since the late 1940s instead they have to live under brutal rule where the Burmese even shoot Karen for just trying to grow food -- as a matter of Burmese government policy.

There's at least as much gravity to the story with the Karen as there is to the Palestinians, but the difference is we already know about the Israel/Palestine situation and have tons of media coverage already. It's ready-made, unlike the Karen.

And if you think the media-consuming American public won't give a damn, think again to South African apartheid. There was a ton of influential movement here to divest investments in South Africa, exert pressure on U.S. gov't policy, etc. In the end, that was quite a successful campaign for something in very foreign lands to Joe Bob in Kentucky. Nelson Mandela probably drew more people on his U.S. tour the year he was released than the Rolling Stones.

We don't disagree here Greg, for this reason I am against Hamas. War, murder is not the solution, it just makes the case worse. There are many examples for that in history..

Precious persons, like you mentioned are rare unfortunately, sadly those kinds of heroes get killed by their own people, Yitzhak Rabin for example..

 

[Zé Tahir]

Bowen diary: Stranded with dead

BBC Middle East Editor Jeremy Bowen's diary of the conflict between Hamas and Israel.

26 JANUARY

Ahmed, a 16-year-old boy, only became animated when he talked about his dead pets. Even then the mask that his face has become shifted only slightly.

He pointed towards a pile of rubble: "That was my house. We were living there and we were very happy. The Israelis destroyed my house and the other houses before they pulled out."

'I had two goats and a donkey and they killed them. And they killed 10 pigeons, and our chickens and a cockerel and two ducks. The pigeons and the goats were mine. The rest belonged to the family.

"I loved seeing my pets grow. I wanted to see their babies. It makes me very sad that they killed the animals, the donkey, the goats, the pigeons and the ducks.

"Why? I don't know why they kill animals. I don't believe birds can harm them. My white pigeons were shot. I know that because I found their bodies."

'High-tech' rocket

Ahmed talks with some expression about the death of his pets because he is trying to clear his mind of everything else he witnessed in Gaza City.

Ahmed says that after the Israeli soldiers came to his street he was confined with 90 members of his extended family in a house just opposite his own. Other witnesses confirm his story.

After more than 24 hours, the house was hit by some sort of projectile and there was a big explosion. Local people say that 29 people were killed.

When representatives of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) reached the site more than 48 hours later they found part of what they say looked like a high-tech rocket in the building.

They also found children who had been stranded there with the bodies. One of them was Ahmed.

When he talks about it his face is a mask again. When the explosion happened he thought at first that he was dead.

"But I opened my eyes and moved my arms and legs and I realised I was alive. But I couldn't speak or get up," Ahmed says.

I asked him what happened to his family.

"Three of my brothers died next to me. I had been lying next to my brother Ismail. My head was a half-a-metre from his. My brother Yacoub was hurt. There was a hole in his stomach that you could have put a coffee cup into."

And his mother was killed. Ahmed says he thinks of her every day.

Trauma sessions

The survivors were allowed to leave by the soldiers who had told them to stay in the house. Ahmed could not walk, so the others promised to go for help.

He says the time they were there in the house was terrifying. They found a small amount of water. He would drag himself to the door to watch the Israelis. He saw them bulldozing the mosque flat.

The ICRC says Israel refused to let them get to the wounded for more than two days.

That is why they broke their usual silence to issue an angry statement saying it looked as though the Israeli army had not fulfilled its obligations under the laws of war to treat the wounded or arrange for their evacuation.

The house the soldiers commandeered is 10 paces away from the place where Ahmed and the others waited for help for more than two days with the bodies.

His father survived, as did four younger brothers and two older sisters. He has not gone back to school yet, because he says his clothes and his books were destroyed when his house was bulldozed. So was the bicycle he used to get to school. Maths was his favourite subject.

Ahmed has had some sessions with experts in the trauma that children suffer when they experience violence.

In Gaza, they have developed considerable expertise. They say he needs a lot of time and treatment, and even then the experience he has had will scar him for life.

The doctors were encouraged that, when he spoke about his mother, his expressionless mask slipped slightly, and he looked as if he was struggling not to cry.

The psychologist and psychiatrist who were with him said that he was going to have to go through a great deal of emotional pain, the pain that he was trying with all his might to suppress, if he was to have any hope of getting better.

No wonder Ahmed finds it easier to talk about his dead pets.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/7852218.stm

Published: 2009/01/26 18:54:07 GMT

 

[Enron]

But people are attuned to injustice. The problem is getting that message recognized. The great irony is that for all the media-savviness that effective terrorism depends on, the same is true for non-violence movements

Non-violence movements are effective when they force confrontations and make the ugliness clear. It was when protests in Birmingham, Alabama -- where people even in this country couldn't give a rat's ass about -- turned dogs and firehoses on peaceful protesters that got everyone from the media, the viewing public, to the office of the presidency up in arms.

Non-violence has to be media savvy. Gandhi knew this on the Salt March too, as he encouraged American and other photographers to join and document the march.

And to the Palestinian's benefit, a lot of the world's attention is there... already. This doesn't take much work.

Contrast this with a not entirely dissimilar situation with the 3 million Karen people who are being exterminated by the Burmese government troops. You have another situation where Britain pulls out, the Karen are hoping for their independence after the Japanese are removed from WW II, and since the late 1940s instead they have to live under brutal rule where the Burmese even shoot Karen for just trying to grow food -- as a matter of Burmese government policy.

There's at least as much gravity to the story with the Karen as there is to the Palestinians, but the difference is we already know about the Israel/Palestine situation and have tons of media coverage already. It's ready-made, unlike the Karen.

And if you think the media-consuming American public won't give a damn, think again to South African apartheid. There was a ton of influential movement here to divest investments in South Africa, exert pressure on U.S. gov't policy, etc. In the end, that was quite a successful campaign for something in very foreign lands to Joe Bob in Kentucky. Nelson Mandela probably drew more people on his U.S. tour the year he was released than the Rolling Stones.

That's spot on Greg. Civil Disobedience should be the basis behind any freedom movement. The results speak for themselves.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

what results? you are all out fo touch, how are the gazans who are already starving going to civilly disobey?

 

[Enron]

what results? you are all out fo touch, how are the gazans who are already starving going to civilly disobey?

Summmerdonna. I was merely complimenting Greg on his post. As for results, I guess you don't count the US Civil Rights movement and Ghandi's achievements as victory for civil disobedience.

As for the Gazans, yes it's a little late for civil disobedience. That doesn't take away from the quality of Greg's post. It is easier to gain sympathy when your cause is non-violent. That is a good point. There's no need to get all bent out of shape over a couple of guys "shooting the shit" on an internet forum. Especially, when you've preached again and again that it is "required to have a bias towards truth" and that the situation is "realistically unsolvable". If the problem is unsolvable, then there really isn't a need to be upset over the exchange of ideas in an internet forum.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

aaron have you heard anything on the news about the challenges gaza and gazans were going through 4 months ago?

I am not getting upset my friend, but civil disobedience can be effective sometimes but it just isnt in this case. Israel feels like the the palestinians have no bargaining chips and hamas was obviously trying to assert that it can make life very uncomfortable for those border cities for the simple reason it could vouch to stop that if given the simple amenities any state has.

Going back to my first question, the purpose of our conversations on here is not to come up with solutions but rather spread truth, people in gaza were observing a truce with israel which was still insisting on making their life a living hell so the palestinians to gain some ground on the bargaining ground, you cant fault them for that. So yes as long as people will go around blaming the palestinians for this latest outburst i along with the others who see it the same way will object and confront those who spread that. it's really that simple.

As for solutions, As a believer i have full confidence in the triumph of justice be in 10 or 10000 years, dont ask me how

 

[Enron]

aaron have you heard anything on the news about the challenges gaza and gazans were going through 4 months ago?

I am not getting upset my friend, but civil disobedience can be effective sometimes but it just isnt in this case. Israel feels like the the palestinians have no bargaining chips and hamas was obviously trying to assert that it can make life very uncomfortable for those border cities for the simple reason it could vouch to stop that if given the simple amenities any state has.

Going back to my first question, the purpose of our conversations on here is not to come up with solutions but rather spread truth, people in gaza were observing a truce with israel which was still insisting on making their life a living hell so the palestinians to gain some ground on the bargaining ground, you cant fault them for that. So yes as long as people will go around blaming the palestinians for this latest outburst i along with the others who see it the same way will object and confront those who spread that. it's really that simple.

As for solutions, As a believer i have full confidence in the triumph of justice be in 10 or 10000 years, dont ask me how

I think that is the next step. The truth is obvious, I guess it's the literal "elephant in the room" in this case. The next stop after the realization of that truth is to figure out a solution... what ever that is.

 

[swag]

To those who believe the Zionists don't have a stranglehold over our politics:

"Investigators within the DEA, INS, and FBI have all told FOX News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying is considered career suicide." (20) (emphasis added)

Some people forget yet that Israelis have been caught spying on the U.S.

That is pretty obvious though. As soon as one questions them, they claim you're Anti-Semitic. That's just nonsense, but the truth of the matter.

Of course, most people forgot that Ethiopians and most Arabs are technically Semites as much as any Israeli for that matter...

So I still have serious doubts over Americans waking up against Israel... they won't let that happen.

Institutional policy. That can be broken by public will, btw. We've seen it happen before, is my point.

That's spot on Greg. Civil Disobedience should be the basis behind any freedom movement. The results speak for themselves.

Maybe not all freedom movements. But if you're dealing with social injustice where you're a second-class citizen in your own land and are at the mercy of an aggressor who is armed to the teeth, it's the most effective method we've seen work throughout history.

what results? you are all out fo touch, how are the gazans who are already starving going to civilly disobey?

Leadership there needs to identify a few key areas that underscore the injustices and force everyone to come to terms with how lopsided the policy is. In the American South, they picked something as simple as busing or lunch counters, for example.

And it's not as if people under South African apartheid were living fat off the land either.

aaron have you heard anything on the news about the challenges gaza and gazans were going through 4 months ago?

I am not getting upset my friend, but civil disobedience can be effective sometimes but it just isnt in this case.

Then it's a cop-out, saying there's nothing the Palestinians can do for themselves. I don't buy that at all. The Palestinians have a lot they can do to influence their own destiny. They are not merely mounds of flesh waiting for missiles as the Israeli punching bags. To consider otherwise is to sell them short of any hope. To consider otherwise is to completely emasculate the Palestinians.

Going back to my first question, the purpose of our conversations on here is not to come up with solutions but rather spread truth

Truth comes out in acts such as civil disobedience, though. The "truth" among too many now is that Israel had the right to defend itself against people who fired rockets at their civilians and hid behind the faces of fake innocents in the form of women and children.

How do you bring out the truth against that? For one, you don't fire rockets and give them a "See what we told you!" excuses to give them ammunition to dupe more people.

As for solutions, As a believer i have full confidence in the triumph of justice be in 10 or 10000 years, dont ask me how

I'm a believer that justice is what you make. The native Americans who were ran out of town in the U.S. will never receive "justice," for example. Nor, to snoop's heart, will the victims of the Hamidian massacres and what followed.

Dieties and afterlife aside, we cannot make justice for the past. But we can try to do our best to correct for the present and future.

 

[Ahmed]

"I'm a believer that justice is what you make"

that's a great line mate

 

[Amaurisimo]

here is very nice video..

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=KG6sAjgVoj4

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Some people forget yet that Israelis have been caught spying on the U.S.



Of course, most people forgot that Ethiopians and most Arabs are technically Semites as much as any Israeli for that matter...



Institutional policy. That can be broken by public will, btw. We've seen it happen before, is my point.



Maybe not all freedom movements. But if you're dealing with social injustice where you're a second-class citizen in your own land and are at the mercy of an aggressor who is armed to the teeth, it's the most effective method we've seen work throughout history.



Leadership there needs to identify a few key areas that underscore the injustices and force everyone to come to terms with how lopsided the policy is. In the American South, they picked something as simple as busing or lunch counters, for example.

And it's not as if people under South African apartheid were living fat off the land either.



Then it's a cop-out, saying there's nothing the Palestinians can do for themselves. I don't buy that at all. The Palestinians have a lot they can do to influence their own destiny. They are not merely mounds of flesh waiting for missiles as the Israeli punching bags. To consider otherwise is to sell them short of any hope. To consider otherwise is to completely emasculate the Palestinians.



Truth comes out in acts such as civil disobedience, though. The "truth" among too many now is that Israel had the right to defend itself against people who fired rockets at their civilians and hid behind the faces of fake innocents in the form of women and children.

How do you bring out the truth against that? For one, you don't fire rockets and give them a "See what we told you!" excuses to give them ammunition to dupe more people.



I'm a believer that justice is what you make. The native Americans who were ran out of town in the U.S. will never receive "justice," for example. Nor, to snoop's heart, will the victims of the Hamidian massacres and what followed.

Dieties and afterlife aside, we cannot make justice for the past. But we can try to do our best to correct for the present and future.

once again, say you live in gaza 4 months ago how in hell are you civilly disobeying in that open air prison where you re already made to starve? I have made my point more than clear; the hamas leadership had no other choice really. We can choose to imagine that india or south africa is like israel, or face up the facts as they really are.

As for truth, it is undeniably "on the side of the oppressed", regardless of what "others" think.

Finally on the subject of justice, you speak with much certitude over things that have yet to transpire, i choose to know my limitations and be a believer.

 

[ReBeL]

But the Palestinians can play a role too. I'm not saying that Palestine needs their own Gandhi here. But given the brutality with which Israel has responded and taken the offense, groups like Hamas have to be f*ed in the head if they think that suddenly their luck will change taking the violent resistance route. That hasn't worked for sh*t.

And while non-violence ultimately got Gandhi killed by his own people (with echoes of Arafat's own fears), it's historically been one of the best and most effective approaches when dealing with aggressive, heavily funded, heavily armed occupation forces. The current strategy has been an absolute failure. And this is not Algeria, where the occupying forces knew they were interlopers.

As long as Hamas keeps tossing a rocket here or there, Israel has all the excuses they need to label their entire people as terrorist thugs to the rest of the world. If the Palestinians denied them that, in the way that so many other non-violence movements have succeeded, I can't see them doing much worse than they're doing now.

You talk as if Palestinians never made peaceful protests. Did you hear of the 1936 stike? It was the longest strike in the world as it lasted for around 6 months. People didn't work and didn't sell or buy anything for 6 months. My grandfather was there at that time. He told me it was a very bad situation during these 6 months that people were struggling to live. They wanted to tell British authorities at that time to stop bringing jews to Palestine.

You all know how much Britain reacted to that. Tens of executions and the jewish immigration never stopped but was accelerated.

Here is some info about the general strike:

The strike began in Nablus and soon other committees in Haifa, Jenin, Tulkarm and Jerusalem were formed to join the protest. The demands of the strike were Independence for Jerusalem and a stop to removals of workers from the land.

While the strike was initially organised by workers and local committees, soon religious leaders and families were involved to help coordination. This led to the formation on 25 April 1936 of the Arab Higher Committee or HAC.

The response of the British to the strike was to impose heavy fines on villages and cities. The city-port of Jaffa was especially singled out. Under the guise of urban renewal the British ordered the demolition of hundreds of homes in the city and more than a thousand in neighbouring villages.

In July, the authorities imposed martial law and fresh troops were brought in from England. Special Night Squads of Zionist and British soldiers were formed to attack villages. It is believed that the British authorities dynamited 5000 houses and executed 148 prisoners in Acre Prison alone.

Solidarity campaign committees were formed in Damascus, Baghdad, Cairo and Beirut. In Syria a promise of self-government from the French was made after a 50 day strike. In Egypt anti-British demonstrations in November 1935 brought about the resumption of negotiations between the two countries for a treaty of independence.

The strike was eventually called off in November 1936, by the HAC, under the influence of Britain. King Ghazi of Iraq, King Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia and Amir Abdullah of Transjordan appealed on the workers to end the strike because as they wrote in Palestinian newspapers, "We rely on the good intentions of our friend Great Britain, who has declared that she will do justice."

During the period 1936-1939, more than 5000 Palestinians were killed by both British and Zionists. Nobody in the world moved a blink.

It is easier to gain sympathy when your cause is non-violent.

Sympathy doesn't lead to anything, man. How does a Gazan make use of the sympathy of somebody in Tanzania who watches news while that Gazan lives without food, electricity, fuel & clean water? The Gazans had to do miserable kinds of reaction. They tried candles demonstrations. They tried silent protests. They tried everything that can be used, but these kinds of acts need an objective world that can do something to help you. There was nothing, but so shy reactions under a world led by the US who made 36 vetos during the last 41 years in the UN against the rights of Palestinians.

Gazans tried to overcome the two-year-siege by making tunnels to get their needed food and medicine. I have a friend there that was celebrating once when he saw his child happy after seeing a gas celendar after months of living without one. That gas calendar was sold to them by multiples of prices because its brining to Gaza was through so difficult ways through tunnels. Another kid was on Aljazeera before afew days was describing how he was happy when he could wash himself by clean water for the first time since months.

Life conditions in Gaza are horrible.

Hamas are a part of the Palestinian people who was under siege. Missiles launching has stopped for 6 months. You can't expect Palestinians to accept living in such disastrous conditions while Zionists in the next settlements live in a heaven on the Palestinian original lands. Again, I repeat Hamas could not keep silent after all this silence about what is happening in Gaza. They had to make their sounds heard all over the world that people are dying quietly in Gaza. Missiles were the only available tools to say to the world: "We are dying, cowards!!"

aaron have you heard anything on the news about the challenges gaza and gazans were going through 4 months ago?

I am not getting upset my friend, but civil disobedience can be effective sometimes but it just isnt in this case. Israel feels like the the palestinians have no bargaining chips and hamas was obviously trying to assert that it can make life very uncomfortable for those border cities for the simple reason it could vouch to stop that if given the simple amenities any state has.

Going back to my first question, the purpose of our conversations on here is not to come up with solutions but rather spread truth, people in gaza were observing a truce with israel which was still insisting on making their life a living hell so the palestinians to gain some ground on the bargaining ground, you cant fault them for that. So yes as long as people will go around blaming the palestinians for this latest outburst i along with the others who see it the same way will object and confront those who spread that. it's really that simple.

As for solutions, As a believer i have full confidence in the triumph of justice be in 10 or 10000 years, dont ask me how

Very well said.