Israeli-Palestinian conflict (37 Viewers)

[Martin]

A big percentage of Israelis are as Polish as you. They were your grandfather's neighbours before 70 years. No?

Indeed, there were lots of Jews living in Poland in the past. That's also the reason why our population was so decimated in the war, Jews were the prime target and most of them lived in Poland. (I'm not gonna call them Israelites cause there was no Israel at the time, of course.)

But I don't decide who belongs were. If someone living in Poland says "I'm a Jew, I belong to the Jewish nation, we have our own language, our own religion, our own history etc etc", who am I to say "no, you're Polish, sit down"?

The difference between then and now is back then Jews were scattered all over the place, because they didn't have a state. Now they have a state and the biggest concentration of Jews is indeed Israel.

 

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[Alen]

A big percentage of Israelis are as Polish as you. They were your grandfather's neighbours before 70 years. No?

Do you think that those Jews whos grandfathers came to Palestine from Poland should go back to Poland?

 

[ReBeL]

Indeed, there were lots of Jews living in Poland in the past. That's also the reason why our population was so decimated in the war, Jews were the prime target and most of them lived in Poland. (I'm not gonna call them Israelites cause there was no Israel at the time, of course.)

But I don't decide who belongs were. If someone living in Poland says "I'm a Jew, I belong to the Jewish nation, we have our own language, our own religion, our own history etc etc", who am I to say "no, you're Polish, sit down"?

The difference between then and now is back then Jews were scattered all over the place, because they didn't have a state. Now they have a state and the biggest concentration of Jews is indeed Israel.

Well, some error that happened before 60 years with a conspiracy of the European countries can't last for ever. These Polish jews will go back to their Poland, and the Ukrainan jews will go to their beloved Ukraine. That is the only logical solution.

Do you think that those Jews whos grandfathers came to Palestine from Poland should go back to Poland?

Of course.

 

[Alen]

Of course.

So that means that the Poles can also say to them "Go back to the place from where your ancestors came to Poland", which would probably mean Spain, since most of the Jews in Poland came from Spain.
The Spanish will also have the right to tell them "We don't want you here, go back to the place from where your ancestors came to Spain"...which would mean Palestine.

 

[Martin]

Well, some error that happened before 60 years with a conspiracy of the European countries can't last for ever. These Polish jews will go back to their Poland, and the Ukrainan jews will go to their beloved Ukraine. That is the only logical solution.

You're ignoring the issue. How about I say why don't all Palestinians vacate their country and go live all over the world? Would they accept that?

At least be consistent in your policy.

 

[swag]

All of us would be overpopulating Ethiopia right now with the rest of the world empty, according to Rebel's logic...

 

[Bjerknes]

You're ignoring the issue. How about I say why don't all Palestinians vacate their country and go live all over the world? Would they accept that?

At least be consistent in your policy.

Play the cards you've got, sort of thing?

 

[Martin]

Play the cards you've got, sort of thing?

what's that?

 

[Bjerknes]

Honestly, Andy, a bit of critical thinking towards new ideologies might suit you.

That's a very strange statement. I wouldn't have the opinions I have if that was the case, and you know that.

 

[Alen]

All of us would be overpopulating Ethiopia right now with the rest of the world empty, according to Rebel's logic...

Yup, when the Jews make the circle from Israel to Poland then to Spain and then again back to Israel, we can only send them to Ethiopia after that according to his theory.....but we will all have to join them there.

 

[Bjerknes]

what's that?

Meaning, what we have now is what we have to go upon, as in Israel exists and that's that.

 

[Martin]

Meaning, what we have now is what we have to go upon, as in Israel exists and that's that.

No, not necessarily. I mean if you ask the question should Israel exist then you're willing to redress the situation, and I'm totally open to that discussion.

But in a broader sense, yes, because we have a world of 200 something states and it's "too late" to allocate territory now, noone is willing to start from scratch.

 

[ReBeL]

So that means that the Poles can also say to them "Go back to the place from where your ancestors came to Poland", which would probably mean Spain, since most of the Jews in Poland came from Spain.
The Spanish will also have the right to tell them "We don't want you here, go back to the place from where your ancestors came to Spain"...which would mean Palestine.

You're ignoring the issue. How about I say why don't all Palestinians vacate their country and go live all over the world? Would they accept that?

At least be consistent in your policy.

All of us would be overpopulating Ethiopia right now with the rest of the world empty, according to Rebel's logic...

I don't say that we should go back where we were originally before 500000 years. All what I say is that Palestinians now know in SPECIFIC where their house in Palestine is, and Israelis know in SPECIFIC where their house in Poland is, because 60 years didn't delete the memory of old guys from the two parties.

 

[CheSchifo!]

So that means that the Poles can also say to them "Go back to the place from where your ancestors came to Poland", which would probably mean Spain, since most of the Jews in Poland came from Spain.
The Spanish will also have the right to tell them "We don't want you here, go back to the place from where your ancestors came to Spain"...which would mean Palestine.

Alen,

it's not an argument. You know that, I know that, ReBeL knows that. They're just fucking around. In reality they want the Israelis out, because they want them out. Not because it's historically just or anything. Complete bullshit.

 

[Martin]

I don't say that we should go back where we were originally before 500000 years. All what I say is that Palestinians now know in SPECIFIC where their house in Palestine is, and Israelis know in SPECIFIC where their house in Poland is, because 60 years didn't delete the memory of old guys from the two parties.

But if your origin from 500000 years back is irrelevant, then just as easily your origin from 60 years ago can be. Who cares where their ancestors lived 60 years ago, they know precisely which house they themselves live in today, and that's what matters.

 

[CheSchifo!]

the US, Russia, Europe...they know where they came from

Palestinians do not have a God-given claim to the land...it has been in their families for generations

But in Europe they were always told the exact same: go back to where you came from. Which would be Israel.

Don't you see how irrational the claim you're making is?

 

[CheSchifo!]

But if your origin from 500000 years back is irrelevant, then just as easily your origin from 60 years ago can be. Who cares where their ancestors lived 60 years ago, they know precisely which house they themselves live in today, and that's what matters.

Yes, Martin, which is the exact point I have made 5000 pages back. But they chose not to accept it. IMHO the only ones with a rational claim to the land are the ones who have lived there all their lives. And that includes a lot of Israelis.

 

[ReBeL]

But if your origin from 500000 years back is irrelevant, then just as easily your origin from 60 years ago can be. Who cares where their ancestors lived 60 years ago, they know precisely which house they themselves live in today, and that's what matters.

Europeans like you just use human rights and stupid slogans to justify getting rid of the Jews from your countries to drop them in Palestine. You just got rid of your trash 60 years ago, and don't want to discuss the consequences of that trash now because that means that you were participating in the crime. You know who the Israelis are, and you just love the idea that you could get rid of them even if that was a disaster for another people in this world.

 

[CheSchifo!]

You're ignoring the issue. How about I say why don't all Palestinians vacate their country and go live all over the world? Would they accept that?

At least be consistent in your policy.

All of us would be overpopulating Ethiopia right now with the rest of the world empty, according to Rebel's logic...

Yes and yes and yes and yes!

The point is that it's not a rational issue. Far from. He wants the Israelis out and is willing to use any argument that might suit him. It would be far better to focus on working out a liveable situation for both parties instead of talking this sort of bullshit.

 

[Bjerknes]

Tell that to the Palestinians who have lived there all their life, but were forced out of their homes and into the confines of walls.