Is torture acceptable? (2 Viewers)

[pitbull]

if i see an animal being killed in front of me , for me its like a human being killed.

if its being killed for food i understand but it still hurts me if that makes sense i cant stand killing things for fun.

and what about fish? my dad loves to go fishing, is he a bad man, if he tortures them that way (he does it for fun not food, most of the time he just lets them back in the water)?

-> lithuanian guy
it's long to explain it to someone who got it in completely wrong way, i will answer it in the evening, i have to go know.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Salvo]

i fish also, but i eat them if there not on size ill put them back

 

[Raz]

and what about fish? my dad loves to go fishing, is he a bad man, if he tortures them that way (he does it for fun not food, most of the time he just lets them back in the water)?

-> lithuanian guy
it's long to explain it to someone who got it in completely wrong way, i will answer it in the evening, i have to go know.

What makes you think you have got it right? Latvian guy.

 

[Dinsdale]

Torture has a number of implications:

1. It completely sucks as an interrogation method. Subjects under torture will say anything and therefore torture yields lots of unreliable testimony. (This is well documented btw.)
2. Torture dramatically lowers our standards of humanity and our perception of what is acceptable and not. Once the US started using torture it shattered their credibility in statements about human rights. It also means any despot can easily justify torture. "Well, they are doing it, so why can't we."
3. It also means you have no standing whatsoever to criticize other states for their oppression of their own citizens. You torture people ffs.
4. Once you introduce torture you can't control it. Officially, it is only used "against our enemies". But who decides who's an enemy or not? Ultimately, it's used against citizens and enemies alike, and it just becomes another government tool of terror.

To me it's a no brainer. Torture portrayed in movies "when the bomb is about to go off" completely fail to account for the consequences of torture.

I voted that it can be justified, but by that I meant only under extremely rare circumstances, given a very specific and exceptional set of conditions. In something like 99% of all possible practical situations, it can't be justified. So because in the no option, 'under any circumstances' is stressed, I voted yes. I guess I was nitpicking.

 

[Raz]

I voted that it can be justified, but by that I meant only under extremely rare circumstances, given a very specific and exceptional set of conditions. In something like 99% of all possible practical situations, it can't be justified. So because in the no option, 'under any circumstances' is stressed, I voted yes. I guess I was nitpicking.

I did the same for the same reason you just wrote.

 

[Martin]

That's the point, Tom. If you say yes, you're saying yes to a lot more than you think. It's not just a little bit of torture here, and then let's forget all about it, pretend it didn't happen. That is extremely naive reasoning.

 

[Snoop]

That's the point, Tom. If you say yes, you're saying yes to a lot more than you think. It's not just a little bit of torture here, and then let's forget all about it, pretend it didn't happen.

I knew you would say something like. It's always black or white with you

 

[Dinsdale]

If you hadn't wrote 'in all circumstances', I would have voted unacceptable.

 

[Raz]

That's the point, Tom. If you say yes, you're saying yes to a lot more than you think.

To be fair I voted before your post there, and hadnt thought much about it, just went with my initial reaction. Now i think i would go for no torture option. But whats done is done.

 

[Martin]

To be fair I voted before your post there, and hadnt thought much about it, just went with my initial reaction. Now i think i would go for no torture option. But whats done is done.

You could say I ambushed people, right? They voted first, and then I wrote my post. But if I had written it up front, most people would have voted without reading it anyway.

 

[Albertmare]

i fish also, but i eat them if there not on size ill put them back

:wth: you whale killer

 

[Seven]

You could say I ambushed people, right? They voted first, and then I wrote my post. But if I had written it up front, most people would have voted without reading it anyway.

No, you didn't. People need to think about this themselves. It's whether or not you agree with those points you mentioned that matters. If you don't, torture can be justified.

 

[Raz]

You could say I ambushed people, right? They voted first, and then I wrote my post. But if I had written it up front, most people would have voted without reading it anyway.

Would be interesting to test this theory of yours, just need the right question and information.

No it doesnt feel like ambush, this way you know how people vote if they dont have the this information, if that was you choice then it succeded, but if you wanted for a more informed answer than you missed

As i said I didnt have that information before i voted, but i voted no just because i thought that maybe in 1% it might be justified, now giving it more thought i dont think it is.

 

[Martin]

Would be interesting to test this theory of yours, just need the right question and information.

No it doesnt feel like ambush, this way you know how people vote if they dont have the this information, if that was you choice then it succeded, but if you wanted for a more informed answer than you missed

As i said I didnt have that information before i voted, but i voted no just because i thought that maybe in 1% it might be justified, now giving it more thought i dont think it is.

I see you are new on the internet. Informed answers are precious like gold and just as rare.

Seriously though, a couple of people can have an informed discussion, but it's ridiculous to expected informed answers to a poll like this. It just doesn't happen. It's like asking the same question to people on the street. You won't be getting informed answers.

 

[Salvo]

:wth: you whale killer

 

[Raz]

I see you are new on the internet. Informed answers are precious like gold and just as rare.

Seriously though, a couple of people can have an informed discussion, but it's ridiculous to expected informed answers to a poll like this. It just doesn't happen. It's like asking the same question to people on the street. You won't be getting informed answers.

It must have came out wrong, since my english isnt perfect. I wanted to say that if you wanted to see polls where people already know this information and can think through it before answering, not answering in essays to your question

 

[Dinsdale]

That's the point, Tom. If you say yes, you're saying yes to a lot more than you think. It's not just a little bit of torture here, and then let's forget all about it, pretend it didn't happen. That is extremely naive reasoning.

Don't you understand why the "in all circumstances" is such a big deal to me if we want to be exact? I hope I don't have to give a silly and obvious example.

 

[Martin]

Don't you understand why the "in all circumstances" is such a big deal to me if we want to be exact? I hope I don't have to give a silly and obvious example.

And I'm not letting you get away with it. That is what's so insidious about torture, it exploits that tiny possibility that it could be used for "a good cause". Whereas in reality it never is. Or even if it is, it's abused a thousand times more.

You can't decide the torture issue without confronting this. It's exactly what "they" want you to believe.

 

[Seven]

Don't you understand why the "in all circumstances" is such a big deal to me if we want to be exact? I hope I don't have to give a silly and obvious example.

No. It's wrong under ALL circumstances. You cannot leave room for interpretation here.

 

[Dinsdale]

And I'm not letting you get away with it. That is what's so insidious about torture, it exploits that tiny possibility that it could be used for "a good cause". Whereas in reality it never is. Or even if it is, it's abused a thousand times more.

You can't decide the torture issue without confronting this. It's exactly what "they" want you to believe.

I know what you mean and I agree with it, but it's irrelevant to why I voted the way I did. You're neglecting this tiny possibility, I'm saying it's nonzero but extremely small. Just accept the fact that I took this poll 100% literally.