Is the catholic church a force for good in the world? (3 Viewers)

[Martin]

Plus, i did not mean that the catholic church was western and hence evil, how did you even conclude that?

We arrived at the conclusion that the Catholic church is a political organization. As if that wasn't obvious enough. You compared it to western governments.

Then you imply it's only the Catholic church that's like this. Riiiight.

 

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[Fred]

eye know that western democracies are, but western democracies dont rape children, tell famine struck peoples to have children and spread aids, force ignorant beliefs, forbid the right to express your sexuality etc. etc. The catholics are wrong and they are responsible for those deaths, Pope Benedict has the blood on his hands.

But they invade and occupy other countries, kill innocent civilians in third world countries, interfere in third world countries economies etc etc.

We arrived at the conclusion that the Catholic church is a political organization. As if that wasn't obvious enough. You compared it to western governments.

Then you imply it's only the Catholic church that's like this. Riiiight.

A lot of muslim institutions have become political organizations as well, I along with many other muslims do not believe these institutions represent us.

 

[Ford Prefect]

But they invade and occupy other countries, kill innocent civilians in third world countries, interfere in third world countries economies etc etc.

If you want to debate the 'evils' of western democracy you will find me agreeing with you, but do not compare it to the catholics because they are pure pure pure evil, and the ridiculous thing is that they believe their brand of insanity, which is killing millions, to be rational and correct. They are evil fucking morons.

 

[Fred]

I probably don't know as much as you do about the Catholic Church, so i'll just take your word for it. All i was saying is that most governments are the same, since you agree, i have nothing more to say.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I probably don't know as much as you do about the Catholic Church, so i'll just take your word for it. All i was saying is that most governments are the same, since you agree, i have nothing more to say.

They arent the same, they dont use an invisible being for the reasons they are doing it.

 

[Fred]

They're using false labels, its the same thing.

 

[Ford Prefect]

They're using false labels, its the same thing.

Its not the same thing though, at least with democracies there is a reason, regardless of how its presented to the public, there is the belief of the greater good somewhere. The catholics dont have a reason, they have the belief in a book, written by men and the words on a decrepid old man who apparently is 'god's' voice on earth. They have no one to justify themselve too, they can say what they want. The difference is that one is real and one isnt.

 

[Fred]

لCatholics would argue the complete opposite, they'd say there is a belief in Catholicism in the greater good somewhere.

 

[Ford Prefect]

لCatholics would argue the complete opposite, they'd say there is a belief in Catholicism in the greater good somewhere.

There argument has no substance, there is no fact in what they say, just belief, belief in the invisible. If they are happy to be responsible for those deaths on their belief in the invisible then they are fucking morons.

 

[Bjerknes]

If you want to debate the 'evils' of western democracy you will find me agreeing with you, but do not compare it to the catholics because they are pure pure pure evil, and the ridiculous thing is that they believe their brand of insanity, which is killing millions, to be rational and correct. They are evil fucking morons.

Actually while most catholics do not believe in premarital sex, those that I have encountered do also preach safe sex. Not the Priests or nuns, and certainly not the Pope, but just some regular practicing folks. Then again, most of the people I have met are educated individuals.

And I wouldn't call it evil, just misinformed. Nobody should take the Pope seriously on this issue.

 

[Bjerknes]

They arent the same, they dont use an invisible being for the reasons they are doing it.

Yes they do. Delete "God" and insert "WMD's", and you've got yourself basically the same thing. Lies. It's still for something, with the "greater good" being interpreted in different ways -- greater good for God or for the country.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Actually while most catholics do not believe in premarital sex, those that I have encountered do also preach safe sex. Not the Priests or nuns, and certainly not the Pope, but just some regular practicing folks. Then again, most of the people I have met are educated individuals.

And I wouldn't call it evil, just misinformed. Nobody should take the Pope seriously on this issue.

Yeah thats fine, a lot of catholics are, this isnt an attack on them, its an attack on the church, not the believers. The priests that RAPE children, the Pope and Cardinals that tell their priests and tell the poorest peolpe in the world not to use sexual protection leaving them with children they cannot support and unstoppable diseases (whilst they do not use condoms), its an instituion that damns homosexuals to hell and call them evil for being who they are and is extremely misogynistic, they wont allow women to be in the clergy! At least the anglican faith allows both gay and female clegymen, i mean how fucking dificult is it to let people be who they are not condemn them based on biased words of liars who wanted control from 2000 years ago....:segio:

 

[Ford Prefect]

Yes they do. Delete "God" and insert "WMD's", and you've got yourself basically the same thing. Lies. It's still for something, with the "greater good" being interpreted in different ways -- greater good for God or for the country.

I assume thats iraq. Are you aware that Clinton signed a NATO/UN (i cant remember which) decleration of war on Iraq in 1998 iirc but it was put off due to other reasons, the only reason France and Germany backed out was because of oil, Sadam was a tyrant and needed to be removed, for me thats enough reason, a humanitarian intervention (which it partly was, iv written 3 essays on it).

 

[Fred]

Humanatrian my ass, you guys really need to visit Iraq or ask the Iraqi people, Iraq is worse off now.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Humanatrian my ass, you guys really need to visit Iraq or ask the Iraqi people, Iraq is worse off now.

I want to go, but no one flies to iraq from the UK, the issue iv always had is that there was an invasion plan but nothing else, they didnt have a clue what to do when they won, its terrible now but when the situation calms down and a democracy can be allowed to work the people will recieve a lot more freedom than under Sadam, it will take a long time and it was never going to be a quick thing to happen.

 

[Bjerknes]

I assume thats iraq. Are you aware that Clinton signed a NATO/UN (i cant remember which) decleration of war on Iraq in 1998 iirc but it was put off due to other reasons, the only reason France and Germany backed out was because of oil, Sadam was a tyrant and needed to be removed, for me thats enough reason, a humanitarian intervention (which it partly was, iv written 3 essays on it).

Everything is masked as a "humanitarian intervention". The problem this time around is that the blood bath that ensued does not justify the means. By some counts, about one million Iraqis perished in military attacks and resulting terrorist bombings since the second invasion, numbers that should be difficult to swallow. Not to mention the fact that Alan Greenspan and Paul Wolfowitz admitted themselves that the invasion was specifically for oil (nothing else, did not even mention a humanitarian effort), confirming suspicions that many already had. As a citizen under the rule of a government that put Saddam into office in the first place, how can I defend this blood bath, especially when there is no guarantee of success?

Follow the cash flow -- that's what really matters in this world.

 

[Fred]

Well people here in the middle east don't believe for one minute that thats where they're heading. The US like any other colonial power, will take what they want from Iraq and leave it in chaos. Like the British in Egypt, Syria, the gulf countries and Sudan, like France in Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia and like Italy in Libya. The US in Iraq is no different.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I dont want to debate iraq with you guys, we all have very different experiences of the war and what it was about, i just dont want to fall out with anyone on something atm im not too hot on.

The Vatican is lame, can we agree on that?

 

[Bjerknes]

Well people here in the middle east don't believe for one minute that thats where they're heading. The US like any other colonial power, will take what they want from Iraq and leave it in chaos. Like the British in Egypt, Syria, the gulf countries and Sudan, like France in Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia and like Italy in Libya. The US in Iraq is no different.

Unfortunately, history shows that this is most likely the case.

If we had a Vice President who actually thought up a plan to use US Navy Seals in an attack against our own Navy vessels to implicate Iran, you better believe these guys don't give a rat's ass about Iraq or their populous.

Hell, as far as I'm concerned, the Bush administration didn't give a crap about the normal American either.

 

[Fred]

Unfortunately, history shows that this is most likely the case.

If we had a Vice President who actually thought up a plan to use US Navy Seals in an attack against our own Navy vessels to implicate Iran, you better believe these guys don't give a rat's ass about Iraq or their populous.

Hell, as far as I'm concerned, the Bush administration didn't give a crap about the normal American either.