Is Creativity Needed? (1 Viewer)

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
101,955
#1
Creativity is a crucial part to football. All teams have it to a certain extent, some clubs more than others. The right conglomeration of players in a side can help influence creativity, and the formations in which those respective players reside is a key to creativeness.

While some teams have creativity in abundance, such as Real Madrid, Arsenal, and Barcelona, others lack some of that quality, including Bayern Munich and dare I say Juventus?

But how much of it is actually needed for success? Last year Porto relied heavily on the work of Deco, who controlled their style and pace of play. This year Juventus does not have much in terms of creativity, and we rely heavily on the brilliance of a few performers and the stability of the defense. Much like the Porto side of last term.

So does creativity win Championships? Or is it the work of brilliant individuals more than anything else? Well if the answer is the latter, then in my opinion, defense is the key element to success, not team creativity. You can create as many chances as you want, but if nobody finishes them and you can't keep the ball out of your own net, bam, you're Monaco.
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,099
#3
It depends on your style of play. We depend a lot on our solid defence along with a fairly potent attacking force to win matches.

If you're a team that focuses on attack like Real Madrid, Arsenal and Barcelona, then creativity is essential, since teams will most likely shut up shop and try to defend against your team, and you can't just rely on scoring routine goals in every match.

On the other hand, you have teams like Milan and maybe even Juve, who have a balance of a compact defence, accompanied by attacking ability. That could be what makes Milan and Juve such good teams; we have a balance of both defence and attack

I guess this thread could also have been titled "Is a solid defence necessary when you have creativity?", because IMO it's somewhat of a trade-off.
 
OP
OP
Bjerknes

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
101,955
#4
++ [ originally posted by Elnur_E65 ] ++
What exactly is "creativity" in football?

Define it in tangible terms.
Creativity, to me, is how many goal scoring opportunities are made combined with the style of play which make those chances. For instance, short combination passes are more creative than booting the ball upfield, or overlapping play which exists between players is more creative than just north/south runs.
 
OP
OP
Bjerknes

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
101,955
#5
++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
It depends on your style of play. We depend a lot on our solid defence along with a fairly potent attacking force to win matches.

If you're a team that focuses on attack like Real Madrid, Arsenal and Barcelona, then creativity is essential, since teams will most likely shut up shop and try to defend against your team, and you can't just rely on scoring routine goals in every match.

On the other hand, you have teams like Milan and maybe even Juve, who have a balance of a compact defence, accompanied by attacking ability. That could be what makes Milan and Juve such good teams; we have a balance of both defence and attack

I guess this thread could also have been titled "Is a solid defence necessary when you have creativity?", because IMO it's somewhat of a trade-off.
There is a huge trade off. Just observe Barcelona in action. The two wing backs for Barca, usually Belletti and Van Bronkhorst, find themselves caught half way upfield more times than back defending. If these two were "stay at home defenders", Barca would have no presence on the wings. But of course, they leave the team susceptable at the back.
 

Ramin

vBookie Champion
Nov 18, 2003
4,728
#6
..

I'm dont think you'll ever see the creativiness in Juve or at least under Capello, because he is very defence minded coach and always plays with two defensive midfielders. I think that explains why he didnt want Maresca to stay. while Capello was in charge of Roma, he used to to play sometimes with three defensive midfielders.
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,099
#7
++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
There is a huge trade off. Just observe Barcelona in action. The two wing backs for Barca, usually Belletti and Van Bronkhorst, find themselves caught half way upfield more times than back defending. If these two were "stay at home defenders", Barca would have no presence on the wings. But of course, they leave the team susceptable at the back.
Hey, I never said it was an easy trade off ;)
 

erado

Junior Member
Nov 2, 2004
343
#8
++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


Creativity, to me, is how many goal scoring opportunities are made combined with the style of play which make those chances. For instance, short combination passes are more creative than booting the ball upfield, or overlapping play which exists between players is more creative than just north/south runs.

yeah, thats why we are lacking in that department, as Nedved is the only mid providing "that" where Milan have Kaka, Seerdof and Rui Costa :(

Hopefully Olivera can get more playing time for this season :groan:
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
76,325
#9
The key to any successful creativity is the element of surprise. The element of unpredictability. It's when everyone expects Zalayeta to lunge forward with an attack, but to instead he makes a back-heel pass to Nedved. It's Zlatan trying to thread between two defenders instead of attempting to move, or pass, around them.

Creativity can be completely unsuccessful, so we need to make that distinction.

A team with a solid defense who can anticipate and counter attacking creativity doesn't need as much creativity on the other end of the field, IMO. But as chances work out sometimes, you still need some of it to win close matches with that extra margin. The fact that we've won four straight CL matches 1-0 says something to that effect.
 

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
#10
To me, Juve has always been a team built around work ethic more than that creative spark. The mechanism in place at the core of the team has hardworking players who run up and down the pitch, and more often than not these players are capable of adding that element of surprise, as Swag indicates.

Sure, we've had creative stalwarts in Platini, Zidane, Baggio and maybe even Nedved. But football today, needs just that little bit more. Creativity creates chances, not necessarily goals. If the player isnt at the end of that chance or misses his opportunity, the team knows that as long as they dont concede a goal, theyre still in the game, with a chance to win. So at the end of the day, im going to have to say teams like Juve although dont always look spectacular, but bottom line: they get the job done. And its proven a successful formula over the years. So to me, its work ethic thats more defining on the pitch, rather than all out creativity.
 

Nicole

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2004
7,561
#11
Real are the kind of team who focus all on attack, or did I havent seen them recently so I dont know, its means you'll always score goals against them, but they will also always score.

Balanced teams like Milan, a solid defense and players who can win matches, however you need a really good understanding firstly between all defensive minded players, normally there is at least 1 defensive midfield, but apart from wingers (and it is limited) there is no help from the rest of the team, unless it is a set piece, for Milan's team to be successful they need a great back-four.

Then you have the ultra-defensive teams, like Italy in the past, whose whole team basically has a defensive duty, it does mean your get the boring tag, and tend to win matches 1-0, by relying on your opponent to make a mistake and then counter-attack, that is a very high pressure game, and most teams will crack, however as we all know so well, then it only takes 1 goal from the opposition, and if you havent scored its over. (i.e. South Korea)
 

Elnur_E65

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2004
10,848
#14
Thanks Andy,

I personally think success has more to do with solid defense/midfield + good interaction between them and offense.

Otherwise we wouldn't have Greece as Euro champs and Porto as CL winners.
 
OP
OP
Bjerknes

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
101,955
#15
++ [ originally posted by baggio ] ++
To me, Juve has always been a team built around work ethic more than that creative spark. The mechanism in place at the core of the team has hardworking players who run up and down the pitch, and more often than not these players are capable of adding that element of surprise, as Swag indicates.

Sure, we've had creative stalwarts in Platini, Zidane, Baggio and maybe even Nedved. But football today, needs just that little bit more. Creativity creates chances, not necessarily goals. If the player isnt at the end of that chance or misses his opportunity, the team knows that as long as they dont concede a goal, theyre still in the game, with a chance to win. So at the end of the day, im going to have to say teams like Juve although dont always look spectacular, but bottom line: they get the job done. And its proven a successful formula over the years. So to me, its work ethic thats more defining on the pitch, rather than all out creativity.
I agree with that Baggio. But highlighing players such as Platini, Zidane, and Nedved suggest to me that individual magic is more important than team creativity. In the Zidane era we had his brilliant displays, but quite possibly we relied on him a bit too much, especially after 1998. Now Nedved certainly isn't as creative as Zizou, but he does more work for the team, and seems to be more mobile. So in that case, creativity was won over by true Nedved-ish work ethic.
 
OP
OP
Bjerknes

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
101,955
#16
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
The key to any successful creativity is the element of surprise. The element of unpredictability. It's when everyone expects Zalayeta to lunge forward with an attack, but to instead he makes a back-heel pass to Nedved. It's Zlatan trying to thread between two defenders instead of attempting to move, or pass, around them.

Creativity can be completely unsuccessful, so we need to make that distinction.

A team with a solid defense who can anticipate and counter attacking creativity doesn't need as much creativity on the other end of the field, IMO. But as chances work out sometimes, you still need some of it to win close matches with that extra margin. The fact that we've won four straight CL matches 1-0 says something to that effect.
Thats what I was trying to hint at actually, because you can create as many chances as you like, but if nobody finishes them you're screwed. The element of surprise helps along the possiblity of finishing those chances, and it gives you an extra step on defenders. But most of the time these creative surprises stem from individual brilliance, i.e. Zlatan's cutting through two Bayern defenders on Wednesday.
 
Apr 12, 2004
72,411
#17
I would not say that Bayern lack creativity, I would just say that they do not play well together as a team. Ze, Ballack, and a healthy Deisler provide well enough in the realm of creativity. Also, Santa Cruz and Pizzaro provide nice nice mix-ins up top because they play almost like Del Piero, a sort of, attacking midfielder and centre forward blended together to get the right mix of skill and vision, i just don't believe they are as good as the man in Turin.

Although, I do not believe that creativity is needed in order to win championships, defence wins championships, offense sells tickets.
 

Alex

Junior Member
May 1, 2004
395
#18
Milan are good because every ****ing player defends. whilst they have a brilliant counter attacking forward line. Juve are conservative but perhaps are the mid point for defensive teams like milan and attacking teams like real. if we replaced camo with a more creative more attacking player we would be set. although how many teams have zambro? so were well balanced

my definition of a creative side:
a team that can score from many differint ways (i.e. long ball and 20pass goal) and a team that has goals that can come from almost all the players (best example was madrid with r. carlos in defense, zidane, becks, figo in mid, and all the forwards)
 

Dominic

Senior Member
Jan 30, 2004
15,349
#20
It's all about balance, although certain aspects of your game could to a certain extent compensate for other weaker part in your game. A very good defence could compensate to a certain extent for a weak frontline for example.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)