Il Capitano Alessandro Del Piero (28 Viewers)

[Martin]

Get off the moral high horse. The very foundation of your countries were built on imperialism and slave trade.

wrong. there are plenty of countries in Europe (the Netherlands excluded) that have never been an imperial power. yet Finland for example is still a highly egalitarian society with the best education system in Europe.

if you want a horse buy one, you can afford it

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Fred]

wrong. there are plenty of countries in Europe (the Netherlands excluded) that have never been an imperial power. yet Finland for example is still a highly egalitarian society with the best education system in Europe.

if you want a horse buy one, you can afford it

Yet you were talking about the Netherlands because that's where you live, that's your "dream society". So no sorry, I will not exclude the Netherlands; you need to get off your high horse.

 

[Martin]

Yet you were talking about the Netherlands because that's where you live, that's your "dream society". So no sorry, I will not exclude the Netherlands; you need to get off your high horse.

culturally speaking i prefer the netherlands, but in terms of standard of living and equality there is no significant difference between the two, i could just as easily live in finland

because it's not really dubai vs netherlands that we are debating is it, it's the role of taxes

 

[Mohad]

You guys...

 

[Fred]

culturally speaking i prefer the netherlands, but in terms of standard of living and equality there is no significant difference between the two, i could just as easily live in finland

because it's not really dubai vs netherlands that we are debating is it, it's the role of taxes

Then what does borderline slave labor in Dubai have to do with taxes? Construction companies are mostly private enterprises, so taxes have very little to do with labor issues.

every time I bring up living here, the topic of these labor issues has to be brought up. I just think some of you can't stand the idea that there are nice places to live in the Middle East.

anyway, this has gotten far too off topic, the discussion has steered very far away from this forum's favorite idol

 

[Martin]

Then what does borderline slave labor in Dubai have to do with taxes? Construction companies are mostly private enterprises, so taxes have very little to do with labor issues.

it has to do with the role that taxes play in a society. how they are collected and what they are used for plays an important role in defining what kind of society it is

 

[Fred]

it has to do with the role that taxes play in a society. how they are collected and what they are used for plays an important role in defining what kind of society it is

Ok, that's a very broad thing to say, but it doesn't answer my question. What did our discussion on the role of taxes have to do with what you called borderline slave labor in the UAE?

 

[Martin]

Ok, that's a very broad thing to say, but it doesn't answer my question. What did our discussion on the role of taxes have to do with what you called borderline slave labor in the UAE?

you suggested i like paying taxes because it makes me feel good
i said i like it because it helps create the kind of society i want to live in. and by contrast, one that employs slave labor isn't, even if the cities look clean.

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every time I bring up living here, the topic of these labor issues has to be brought up. I just think some of you can't stand the idea that there are nice places to live in the Middle East.

because for some people the idea of a somewhat equal and just society, however ridiculous that may seem to you, is of interest

 

[Fred]

you suggested i like paying taxes because it makes me feel good
i said i like it because it helps create the kind of society i want to live in. and by contrast, one that employs slave labor isn't, even if the cities look clean.
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because for some people the idea of a somewhat equal and just society, however ridiculous that may seem to you, is of interest

Are you implying that I condone the labor issues that happen in GCC countries?


Just out of curiosity, have you ever purchased any Adidas or Nike products?

 

[Martin]

Are you implying that I condone the labor issues that happen in GCC countries?

i wouldnt know if you do

Just out of curiosity, have you ever purchased any Adidas or Nike products?

who hasnt?

 

[Fred]

i wouldnt know if you do



who hasnt?

I condone them just as much as you do. But it's easier and fits your narrative and stereotyping more when you're arguing the role of taxes with the rich arab guy who sleeps over a barrel of oil, and has slaves and servants do his bidding.

As for the second part, , more of a reason for you to get off your high horse. The idea of a just and somewhat equal society? Ya, so long as they keep the 12 year old children that make your running shoes away from your sight, you can sleep well at night, because after all, you pay your taxes right?

 

[Martin]

I condone them just as much as you do. But it's easier and fits your narrative and stereotyping more when you're arguing the role of taxes with the rich arab guy who sleeps over a barrel of oil, and has slaves and servants do his bidding.

and do you?

As for the second part, , more of a reason for you to get off your high horse. The idea of a just and somewhat equal society? Ya, so long as they keep the 12 year old children that make your running shoes away from your sight, you can sleep well at night, because after all, you pay your taxes right?

none of which makes it any less true that a high tax rate and taxes used for useful societal goals (instead of military say) makes a healthy society possible

whereas what you admire is the US where inequality is growing and growing and the american dream is more of a fantasy with each year that passes. so apparently you do condone that since to you it's the greatest country on earth (or was that in history?)

 

[Fred]

and do you?



none of which makes it any less true that a high tax rate and taxes used for useful societal goals (instead of military say) makes a healthy society possible

whereas what you admire is the US where inequality is growing and growing and the american dream is more of a fantasy with each year that passes. so apparently you do condone that since to you it's the greatest country on earth (or was that in history?)

What good would my answer do? I've stated my opinion on it many times in discussions that you've been a part of, but you've already made your mind up. You know very well how selective perception works.

As for the bolded part: this brings me back to my original point, where some of you do and think things because it makes you feel you're a good person; taxes are one of those things. The reason their is more inequality in the United States is because it is a bigger country, it's easier to have more equality when you have less than 50M people to think about than when you have 300M+. You'll never have countries that are as great as the United States though, because the US understands something about people that you never will. People will have an incentive to do more when they are individually rewarded, it's nice to pretend that isn't true, and that we're all selfless people who care more about others than we care about ourselves, but it doesn't make it any less true.

 

[Martin]

What good would my answer do? I've stated my opinion on it many times in discussions that you've been a part of, but you've already made your mind up. You know very well how selective perception works.

As for the bolded part: this brings me back to my original point, where some of you do and think things because it makes you feel you're a good person; taxes are one of those things. The reason their is more inequality in the United States is because it is a bigger country, it's easier to have more equality when you have less than 50M people to think about than when you have 300M+. You'll never have countries that are as great as the United States though, because the US understands something about people that you never will. People will have an incentive to do more when they are individually rewarded, it's nice to pretend that isn't true, and that we're all selfless people who care more about others than we care about ourselves, but it doesn't make it any less true.

so...... i want to make myself feel better because i stand where i stand. and you want to make yourself feel better because a) you're above that and b) i'm wrong and you're right. is that about right?

 

[Fred]

so...... i want to make myself feel better because i stand where i stand. and you want to make yourself feel better because a) you're above that and b) i'm wrong and you're right. is that about right?

No, I don't think my views make me feel I'm a good person, and others who view it differently are bad people that don't want equality, that's more you

I'd say my views are pragmatic and do not attempt to be politically correct, I don't view those who disagree with me as bad people who condone slavery

 

[Martin]

No, I don't think my views make me feel I'm a good person, and others who view it differently are bad people that don't want equality, that's more you

I'd say my views are pragmatic and do not attempt to be politically correct, I don't view those who disagree with me as bad people who condone slavery

are you saying you feel bad for writing your gleeful posts?

i think not

 

[ZoSo]

But then of course he would clearly not be the captain.

he is always capitano

 

[Boksic]

I met this legend yesterday (and his family) at a golf tournament in Scotland.

Had a good chat with him too, he really is a great guy and was very friendly/down to earth.

He also said "Fino alla fine" to me!

 

[icemaη]

Fuck you, you lucky bastard

 

[Martin]

I met this legend yesterday (and his family) at a golf tournament in Scotland.

Had a good chat with him too, he really is a great guy and was very friendly/down to earth.

He also said "Fino alla fine" to me!

did he beat you at golf?