If you want religious nuts... (7 Viewers)

[JCK]

i agree with the second part but not the first (if you mean division between 'religions in general' and state)

How can you agree and disagree at the same point

 

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[Muha]

You don't think I gave examples?

your examples didnt satisfy me.

How can you agree and disagree at the same point

its not the same point.

Erik said that he is a strong supporter of the division between religion and state. (i disagree with that) .. and then he said that everyone has to have the right to choose whtever religion they want. ( i agree with that).. i dont see anything funny in that.. unless wht i said sounded funny..

 

[Rami]

Oh what crock. I can see this being relevant at one point, but there is no way that people in 2006 follow these rules. I'm sure there are geographical variations on sexual activity, but the book is common to all and there's no way you'll convince me that Muslims in the western world live by this stuff.

Whats wrong with seeking chastity??

Discrimination of women? Why should they not have the same right?

Different but equal, nobody claimed that men and woman are alike in Islam, but equal. Men are obliged to pray in the mosque, women can pray at home? Discrimination against men? Men are required to defend their country if under attack, women are not. Discrimination against men? Men are required to be the bread winners, women are not. Discrimination against men??

It goes both ways....Its a wholistic system, you cannot come and say why is woman's inheritence half of a man's, without bringing up the concept of "Nafaqa" and how men are obliged to support their families while women are not...

 

[Martin]

Whats wrong with seeking chastity??

Nothing wrong with seeking it. I just don't believe that is what our present society is like.

Different but equal, nobody claimed that men and woman are alike in Islam, but equal. Men are obliged to pray in the mosque, women can pray at home? Discrimination against men? Men are required to defend their country if under attack, women are not. Discrimination against men? Men are required to be the bread winners, women are not. Discrimination against men??

It goes both ways....Its a wholistic system, you cannot come and say why is woman's inheritence half of a man's, without bringing up the concept of "Nafaqa" and how men are obliged to support their families while women are not...

Right, all these divisions. Why not give men and women the same rights and duties? Birth aside, there is little men can't do that women can and vice versa.

 

[Rami]

Nothing wrong with seeking it. I just don't believe that is what our present society is like.

It is in more conservative societies, not only Muslim societies. Japaneese, chineese, indian ...etc all value chastity.

Right, all these divisions. Why not give men and women the same rights and duties? Birth aside, there is little men can't do that women can and vice versa

Because they are not the same! Men and women differ physically, mentally, emotionally.

Tell me now is the issue here difference or equality? if its equality, Islam have tended to that (even though its not applied in lots of societies), but if it is difference, then yes I believe that the two genders are different, and both have different responsibilities in society.

And its only one division not divisions!

 

[Martin]

It all started with how muslim men can marry outside their faith but women can't. How is that fair?

 

[Slagathor]

Erik said that he is a strong supporter of the division between religion and state. (i disagree with that) .. and then he said that everyone has to have the right to choose whtever religion they want. ( i agree with that).. i dont see anything funny in that.. unless wht i said sounded funny..

You realise there isn't a society on earth where parity between church and state coexists with religious freedom?

 

[Il Re]

I disagree, many families where the parents are of different religion or belief. A Christian father and non-believer mothrer, a Muslim mother and a Christian father a pagan mother and a Christian father and they have raised their children in the best way possible and neither of the beliefs was imposed on the children and the children are neither confused nor see any preference in any of te parents; and this is out of personal experience.

Ibrahomovic's dad is muslim and his mother christian, look how he turned out

 

[Muha]

You realise there isn't a society on earth where parity between church and state coexists with religious freedom?

i dont no about church and state.. but i do know about islam and state.. an example is many of the arab countries plus pakistan... you might argue that many arab countries dont strictly use islam in their constitution and rules passing, but most of them apply at least 50% of wht islam says.... and you still see churches, temples, and no one can hurt a non muslim in these countries.

 

[Jem83]

Ibrahomovic's dad is muslim and his mother christian, look how he turned out

 

[Zé Tahir]

Ibrahomovic's dad is muslim and his mother christian, look how he turned out

:rofl2:

 

[Muha]

It all started with how muslim men can marry outside their faith but women can't. How is that fair?

We cant look at it from here.. You gotta understand how Islam views a woman and views a man.. you gotta look at the whole picture, and not a single section of it.

 

[Slagathor]

i dont no about church and state.. but i do know about islam and state.. an example is many of the arab countries plus pakistan... you might argue that many arab countries dont strictly use islam in their constitution and rules passing, but most of them apply at least 50% of wht islam says.... and you still see churches, temples, and no one can hurt a non muslim in these countries.

I hear different stories from nations like Turkey where Christians are unofficially treated as second rate citizens. Sure they have churches, but not the same freedoms Muslims enjoy.

Let me ask you: why does a democratic nation with freedom and uniform values for everyone need to adopt one certain religious system (such as sharia) if not everyone is a member of said religion? Why is that better than having a democratic system which supports freedom of religion?

 

[Zé Tahir]

You realise there isn't a society on earth where parity between church and state coexists with religious freedom?

Today, no, sadly. Though, the political system during the life of Prophet is considered to be the "best" political soceity, that the world hasn't been able to achieve ever since.

 

[ReBeL]

I hear different stories from nations like Turkey where Christians are unofficially treated as second rate citizens. Sure they have churches, but not the same freedoms Muslims enjoy.

Let me ask you: why does a democratic nation with freedom and uniform values for everyone need to adopt one certain religious system (such as sharia) if not everyone is a member of said religion? Why is that better than having a democratic system which supports freedom of religion?

Erik, do you know that the Turkish prime minister has two daughters who are studying in USA because in Turkey they don't allow them to wear scarves in the university??

Is that a discimination or what??

 

[JCK]

your examples didnt satisfy me.



its not the same point.

Erik said that he is a strong supporter of the division between religion and state. (i disagree with that) .. and then he said that everyone has to have the right to choose whtever religion they want. ( i agree with that).. i dont see anything funny in that.. unless wht i said sounded funny..

Fine then, I believe that people with different beliefs can marry and won't affect their children and you don't. I can no further continue in this discussion.

 

[Rami]

It all started with how muslim men can marry outside their faith but women can't. How is that fair?

How is it fair that ANY female in an Islamic society is not required to lift a finger to make a living, her husband should, if she's not married then her father should provide her, if he can't then brother, if he can't then an uncle...etc and if she has no one then the government should provider her...While men are relegiously bound to provide to their families...how is that fair???

Its a wholistic system Martin, you have to take a step back and look at the bigger picture...macro not micro

 

[Martin]

How is it fair that ANY female in an Islamic society is not required to lift a finger to make a living, her husband should, if she's not married then her father should provide her, if he can't then brother, if he can't then an uncle...etc and if she has no one then the government should provider her...While men are relegiously bound to provide to their families...how is that fair???

Its a wholistic system Martin, you have to take a step back and look at the bigger picture...macro not micro

You can justify anything that way. By 'seeing the whole picture'. Or you can say that it's not fair that men have to provide for their families and change that *too* to be more fair.

 

[Muha]

I hear different stories from nations like Turkey where Christians are unofficially treated as second rate citizens. Sure they have churches, but not the same freedoms Muslims enjoy.

Let me ask you: why does a democratic nation with freedom and uniform values for everyone need to adopt one certain religious system (such as sharia) if not everyone is a member of said religion? Why is that better than having a democratic system which supports freedom of religion?

Even though Turkey is considered a muslim nation, it is one of these countries that indource division between state and religion.

Whts wrong with having a system that runs by a certain religion and at the same time supports freedom of religion?... Arab countries for example cant have a religion free system because 99% their nationals are muslims.. so whts wrong with a country that runs under shariaa law, and at the same time respect other rekigions?

 

[Rami]

You can justify anything that way. By 'seeing the whole picture'. Or you can say that it's not fair that men have to provide for their families and change that *too* to be more fair.

Well then its a vendor lock-in

To seek understanding, I will have to ask around and look up the reason or the root of this ruling...I will get back to you then