If i were God (3 Viewers)

[Martin]

Do you believe in aliens? You know people have those pictures as proofs. How big is space? They say there was an explosion that happened 2 billion light years away but they don't know the planets of our solar system.

No, I don't believe in aliens.

They don't know the planets? I think it's more a question of definition, which is why they demoted Pluto to the status of an asteroid.

Anyway, the argument that "they don't know everything" is in no way an inference to "they know nothing".

You make wars, you make people suffer but it's god who gets the blame for it like he should be the referee who tells you stop.

Huh? I didn't blame him for wars. I blamed him for natural disasters. And since he created the world and is also all knowing he should have seen them coming, shouldn't he?

 

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[Dostoevsky]

No, I don't believe in aliens.

They don't know the planets? I think it's more a question of definition, which is why they demoted Pluto to the status of an asteroid.

Anyway, the argument that "they don't know everything" is in no way an inference to "they know nothing".

No, there's still "oh my, there's a new plant in our solar system, but it has been there for 2 billion years already". It happened recently.

Huh? I didn't blame him for wars. I blamed him for natural disasters. And since he created the world and is also all knowing he should have seen them coming, shouldn't he?

Every good has an evil.

 

[Martin]

But still, Martin, you seem to spend plenty of time arguing that something that doesn't exist, doesn't exist. Isn't bit pointless?

Of course, but what's more pointless than our lives?

No, in all seriousness, it's completely pointless arguing with people if you know you won't be able to tell them anything. What's left is the possibility that they could tell you something you didn't know. But if you've been arguing with the same person for quite a long time then that is unlikely.

But in the end I did put Juve Revolution on my ignore list

You're totally right. This entire forum is a giant waste of time if you wanna be blunt, and I'm the one who created it and got addicted to it first. As you can see from that I'm not a very productive person and if I didn't spend so much of my time on things that as you say are pointless I could achieve a whole lot more

I mean, if someone argued that he believes there's a blue kettle somewhere in the sky, would you argue for the whole life that there is not such thing? Or would you pull off or even don't enter the discussion at all? I think the God concept seems as an important one to you in some way and that's why you can't help but discuss it.

True, because it has wide implications. You say "there is something over there, and based on that I'm going to tell you how to live your life". I resent that idea completely on an intellectual level. God is the ultimate excuse for discriminating against people. That's why he's more important than a blue kettle.

Oh, and there doesn't have to be any pecisely defined 'object' to believe in, why do you think one must follow a religion that present a specific concept of God or gods to be able to believe in him?

Explain to me how you can believe in something you don't know what is. How does that work, how do you intellectualize it?

 

[Martin]

No, there's still "oh my, there's a new plant in our solar system, but it has been there for 2 billion years already". It happened recently.

Okay, so what? If they had said "there is a god in our solar system, it has been there for 2 billion years and we never noticed" I would have said "okay, there is a god, I was wrong". No problem there.

Every good has an evil.

What on earth does that mean, Dusan??? "To every black there is a white"? "To every lightbulb there is a socket"?

Less poetry, more facts

 

[swag]

"I’m really happy for you, God, and I’m gonna let you finish. But Zeus was one of the best gods of all time!"

 

[RavaneVialli]

God is the ultimate excuse for discriminating against people.

Really? I'd say, money is and God can be only a disguise for it. Isn't it a space to argue against money in todays world? Money do exist, so it's even easier to point out the hypothetical harm they do: stealing, murders, wars etc.

Explain to me how you can believe in something you don't know what is. How does that work, how do you intellectualize it?

Have you heard of deists? Pantheists? They present a rather imprecise concept but still valid according to some well known philosophers in the history. A concept without a religion in the background.

Let me ask you: have you completed any philosophical or theological training? Not particularly an academical education, but amateurish one, just for yourself? Or do you only try to explain everything by logic (I have no doubts you're a great logician, you're a programmer after all and you may also be very well educated in maths while attending to Polish schools, if you attended here) without a theoretical basis?

 

[Dostoevsky]

Okay, so what? If they had said "there is a god in our solar system, it has been there for 2 billion years and we never noticed" I would have said "okay, there is a god, I was wrong". No problem there.

What I meant was, some things are right in front of your nose but you miss it, yet you find something that's totally unimportant and stick to it trying to avoid some things.

What on earth does that mean, Dusan??? "To every black there is a white"? "To every lightbulb there is a socket"?

Less poetry, more facts

Man, some teachers used to call me philosopher, don't mind me.

Facts? The bible.

 

[Martin]

Really? I'd say, money is and God can be only a disguise for it. Isn't it a space to argue against money in todays world? Money do exist, so it's even easier to point out the hypothetical harm they do: stealing, murders, wars etc.

There can be many excuses. What I mean is this. Religion is by definition exclusionary. You are with us, that guy is not. We are a group, he is excluded. He can join if he meets our conditions, but only then. And this is logical. There is no point in having a "special club" if anyone can enter and exit anytime they want.

Now this has nothing to do with God, but the way they justify this is "god said it". We are the chosen people etc.

And that is one of the most insidious things about religion.

Of course there are many other problems in the world.

Have you heard of deists? Pantheists? They present a rather imprecise concept but still valid according to some well known philosophers in the history. A concept without a religion in the background.

Well deists I think are equally vague and silly, but pantheism is just a nickname. We call the world god. That's not conceiving anything new, it's just renaming something old that we see and know.

Let me ask you: have you completed any philosophical or theological training? Not particularly an academical education, but amateurish one, just for yourself? Or do you only try to explain everything by logic (I have no doubts you're a great logician, you're a programmer after all and you may also be very well educated in maths while attending to Polish schools, if you attended here) without a theoretical basis?

No, I have no such background. I'd like to cover some bases in philosophy actually, but this is a rather newfound interest of mine and I haven't done any such exploration in the past. On the other hand, there are many competing fields for my attention.

And no I didn't go to school in Poland, I did my schooling in Norway.

 

[Martin]

What I meant was, some things are right in front of your nose but you miss it, yet you find something that's totally unimportant and stick to it trying to avoid some things.

Could you make that more concrete for me?

 

[Dostoevsky]

Sorry but no, I find this sort of topics useless, or better said, endless. I do like to read opinions, as long as I think they are worth of paying attention. I don't want to go on that ignore list anyway.

 

[Martin]

Sorry but no, I find this sort of topics useless, or better said, endless. I do like to read opinions, as long as I think they are worth of paying attention. I don't want to go on that ignore list anyway.

He's the only person I've ever ignore listed and that's because he started to irritate me. In fact he doesn't need to be anymore because now I only see his posts on completely different topics but haven't bothered to take him off yet.

 

[RavaneVialli]

Well deists I think are equally vague and silly, but pantheism is just a nickname. We call the world god. That's not conceiving anything new, it's just renaming something old that we see and know.

That's why I asked I see your argumentation may work in a debate of arguments against religions having some weak spots due to them being referred to faith instead of logic and that's where you really criticise religion, not the concept of God as a being, in fact. Those arguments quoted are rather weak, really Some great thinkers, while also being distant to particular religions, wouldn't agree with you at all.

 

[Martin]

That's why I asked I see your argumentation may work in a debate of arguments against religions having some weak spots due to them being referred to faith instead of logic and that's where you really criticise religion, not the concept of God as a being, in fact. Those arguments quoted are rather weak, really Some great thinkers, while also being distant to particular religions, wouldn't agree with you at all.

What concept of god? Whose concept? Which definition? Everyone is talking about god and yet noone knows what they're talking about.

Give me a non-vacuous definition (I started a thread to elicit this once) and we can discuss it.

 

[RavaneVialli]

That one you called vague and silly, for example.

 

[Martin]

I called deism silly and vague. Let me instead call it vacuous. As in contains nothing. What is the definition of god under deism? What is god? What's he look like? What's his substance? How do you understand him?

 

[RavaneVialli]

God is a being that created the world. One can believe the Big Bang didn't occur by accident, or not?

 

[Martin]

God is a being that created the world.

How did he do that? By what means? Using what raw materials?

One can believe the Big Bang didn't occur by accident, or not?

When you say accident what does that mean? Do you mean you have seen many other Big Bangs that didn't end up this way and therefore you must conclude that this one was an accident?

 

[RavaneVialli]

This man doesn't know why and how the God did it, but while cognizing the world he knows, the enviorment, the sky, he has a feeling that it was somehow programmed and not caused without purpose.

Edit: A wrong word I've used.

 

[Martin]

This man doesn't know why and how the God did it, but while percipitating the world he knows, the enviorment, the sky, he has a feeling that it was somehow programmed and not caused without purpose.

Well I think that probably yesterday's match against Bordeaux was programmed in some way to end 1-1. I can't say how or why or what motive could possibly explain it, but it doesn't feel right.

Do you think I'm making a good point?

 

[RavaneVialli]

Check the match thread and you'll realize the point you just wrote is quite a good one compared the others. Your point is actually among the ones suggesting the unusual kits are responsible for a draw or it is all about bad luck or even that medical team is secretly injuring our players.