"I support Muslims who love freedom" (4 Viewers)

[Seven]

Muslim members of the Waffen SS 13th Division at prayer during their training in Germany, 1943.

Your point being?

 

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[Martin]

Miserable for everyone around? Well that might be overstating it a bit?

no

 

[Raz]

no

I have not smoked for some time and then it certainly was not that bad if somebody smoked. Smoking is cool, argument won.

 

[Martin]

I have not smoked for some time and then it certainly was not that bad if somebody smoked. Smoking is cool, argument won.

smoking is disgusting, it's like an open sewer

 

[Mohad]

So long as the Qur'an doesn't forbid something it can't be Haram. Even the Holy Prophet didn't make anything haram because he didn't have the authority to do so as only God has the authority to do so, however he did make things Mukroo.

To answer @AFL_ITALIA's question...Alcohol is not haram merely because it's harmful physically, it's also haram because it puts in a state of intoxication and that prevents you from worship as you need to be in a sober state. Also it can lead to addiction. Nothing good can come of it unless it's being used for medicinal purposes. Smoking cigarettes is not haram but there are Quranic verses and Ahadith that encourage that everything should be done in moderation so by that logic a smoker is overindulging and should abstain from smoking excessively but it is not forbidden to smoke (tobacco) because the Qur'an hasn't made it haram.

وَيُحِلُّ لَهُمُ الطَّيِّبَاتِ وَيُحَرِّمُ عَلَيْهِمُ الْخَبَائِثَ - سوة الأعراف ّية 157

"He allows them as lawful At Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al Khabaa’ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods)"

Source: http://quran.com/7/157

وَلا تَقْتُلُوا أَنْفُسَكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ بِكُمْ رَحِيماً - سورة النساء اّية 29

"And do not kill yourselves [or one another]. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful."

Source: http://quran.com/4/29

According to these two verses from Quran, smoking is indeed haram (forbidden), because it's from Al Khabaa’ith (evil) which is harmful to your health and to the people around you when you are smoking it. My father passed away because of it after I received the reports, and that what exactly it says in the second verse (don't kill yourselves).

Not everything that is haram should be written on the Quran, nor should be mentioned by the Prophet (peace be upon him).

Not everything haram should be written on the Quran.

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Yo [MENTION]Dule[/MENTION] why can't I edit my post? Nothing is showing after I click Edit Post

 

[Martin]

Yo [MENTION]Dule[/MENTION] why can't I edit my post? Nothing is showing after I click Edit Post

It's not the Qu'ran's fault. It's a forum bug.

 

[Mohad]

 

[Zé Tahir]

وَيُحِلُّ لَهُمُ الطَّيِّبَاتِ وَيُحَرِّمُ عَلَيْهِمُ الْخَبَائِثَ - سوة الأعراف ّية 157

"He allows them as lawful At Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al Khabaa’ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods)"

Source: http://quran.com/7/157

وَلا تَقْتُلُوا أَنْفُسَكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ بِكُمْ رَحِيماً - سورة النساء اّية 29

"And do not kill yourselves [or one another]. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful."

Source: http://quran.com/4/29

According to these two verses from Quran, smoking is indeed haram (forbidden), because it's from Al Khabaa’ith (evil) which is harmful to your health and to the people around you when you are smoking it. My father passed away because of it after I received the reports, and that what exactly it says in the second verse (don't kill yourselves).

Not everything that is haram should be written on the Quran, nor should be mentioned by the Prophet (peace be upon him).

Not everything haram should be written on the Quran.

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Yo [MENTION]Dule[/MENTION] why can't I edit my post? Nothing is showing after I click Edit Post

I'm sorry but you can make an argument for anything based on those verses and label them haram. By your argument football players, MMA fighters, boxers, etc etc are all involved in sports that are haram because the physical strain they put on their bodies for which they have to pay for later on in life are severe (knee injuries, joint pains, head injuries, etc etc.) It's one thing for you to personally interpret them as discouraging smoking because of its harmful effects but a completely different thing for you to say that this means God has made smoking forbidden. That's a pretty big statement.

 

[ReBeL]

So long as the Qur'an doesn't forbid something it can't be Haram. Even the Holy Prophet didn't make anything haram because he didn't have the authority to do so as only God has the authority to do so, however he did make things Mukroo.

I liked this authority thing. It is really new for me.
Please explain to me the verse 59:7 "And whatever the Messenger has given you - take; and what he has forbidden you - refrain from."
Isn't that enough authorization for the prophet to be taken seriously?

If you only take what is mentioned in Quran, why do you pray in the same way other Muslims are praying? The details of each prayer were not mentioned in Quran. Were they?

 

[Zé Tahir]

I liked this authority thing. It is really new for me.
Please explain to me the verse 59:7 "And whatever the Messenger has given you - take; and what he has forbidden you - refrain from."
Isn't that enough authorization for the prophet to be taken seriously?

If you only take what is mentioned in Quran, why do you pray in the same way other Muslims are praying? The details of each prayer were not mentioned in Quran. Were they?

Do you think The Holy Prophet created or said things on his own? Or were they through the directions of Allah?

16:117 And say not — because of the falsehood which your tongues utter — 'This is lawful, and this is unlawful,’ so as to forge a lie against Allah. Surely, those who forge a lie against Allah do not prosper.

 

[Seven]

In any case these things bug me about religion. You do not need to look for practical advice on how to live a healthy life in a thousand year old book. The Qu'ran doesn't say that you shouldn't build your houses in asbestos either, but you still shouldn't. It's ridiculous to look for that sort of guidance in a book that old.

What you can take away from it are basic guiding principles though. Anything else is just silly.

 

[Zé Tahir]

The effects are hardly universally harmful. Most elite athletes these days benefit from their athletic career later in life. Maybe 20 years ago that the physical strain took its toll, but even then I'd say the benefits outweighed the downsides.

Perhaps but I know there's a big debate over this here because there's been lawsuits against the NFL and they've had to make some rule changes.

 

[Seven]

Perhaps but I know there's a big debate over this here because there's been lawsuits against the NFL and they've had to make some rule changes.

Yes, but the NFL is truly unique because of the number of concussions. I think it's pretty much the unhealthiest sport one could play anyway, so I wouldn't make it the example .

 

[ReBeL]

Do you think The Holy Prophet created or said things on his own? Or were they through the directions of Allah?

ِAsk yourself this question. You think the prophet was not authorized to tell people what is halal and what is haram. Many times in Quran it was mentioned that the prophet never said or acted things from his own thinking. It was merely inspiration from Allah. And you come here to tell me he is not authorized to tell us what is right and what is not!

16:117 And say not — because of the falsehood which your tongues utter — 'This is lawful, and this is unlawful,’ so as to forge a lie against Allah. Surely, those who forge a lie against Allah do not prosper.

It is not my personal opinion that it is halal or haram. As I said earlier, the sources of Sharia are four. If you just want one of them which is Quran, it is fine for me, but at least reply to my previous post:

1- How did you know how to pray?
2- Was the prophet authorized to tell people what is right and what is not?

 

[Maddy]

Perhaps but I know there's a big debate over this here because there's been lawsuits against the NFL and they've had to make some rule changes.

Anything taken to the extreme is harmful and many elite sportsmen and women suffer from the strain their bodies went through during their career. These effects can be seen both mentally and physically.

 

[ReBeL]

In any case these things bug me about religion. You do not need to look for practical advice on how to live a healthy life in a thousand year old book. The Qu'ran doesn't say that you shouldn't build your houses in asbestos either, but you still shouldn't. It's ridiculous to look for that sort of guidance in a book that old.

What you can take away from it are basic guiding principles though. Anything else is just silly.

Totally right. That is why Islam is much bigger than what is mentioned in Quran only.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Yes, but the NFL is truly unique because of the number of concussions. I think it's pretty much the unhealthiest sport one could play anyway, so I wouldn't make it the example .

Anything taken to the extreme is harmful and many elite sportsmen and women suffer from the strain their bodies went through during their career. These effects can be seen both mentally and physically.

So there's arguments for and against this. I tend to agree with Maddy here. If we for the sake of argument agree on this and tying this back to my original argument my point was that by Mo's logic being a professional athlete should be haram because of its harmful physical (and mental) effects.

ِAsk yourself this question. You think the prophet was not authorized to tell people what is halal and what is haram. Many times in Quran it was mentioned that the prophet never said or acted things from his own thinking. It was merely inspiration from Allah. And you come here to tell me he is not authorized to tell us what is right and what is not!



It is not my personal opinion that it is halal or haram. As I said earlier, the sources of Sharia are four. If you just want one of them which is Quran, it is fine for me, but at least reply to my previous post:

1- How did you know how to pray?
2- Was the prophet authorized to tell people what is right and what is not?

The duty of a messenger is to deliver a message from God. Prophet Muhammad told us what Allah has made forbidden for us and what He has made lawful for us. At no point did he say "I forbid you" to do x or y. Never. If he disliked something personally then it became makruh but never haram. Similarly if he liked something it became Sunnat, optional i.e. not a law.

 

[ReBeL]

So there's arguments for and against this. I tend to agree with Maddy here. If we for the sake of argument agree on this and tying this back to my original argument my point was that by Mo's logic being a professional athlete should be haram because of its harmful physical (and mental) effects.



The duty of a messenger is to deliver a message from God. Prophet Muhammad told us what Allah has made forbidden for us and what He has made lawful for us. At no point did he say "I forbid you" to do x or y. Never. If he disliked something personally then it became makruh but never haram. Similarly if he liked something it became Sunnat, optional i.e. not a law.

There is nothing called "What was liked personally by Prophet". The man was not a normal person that he likes or dislikes anything without being ordered to do so by Allah.

By the way, I don't see any answers for my two questions.

 

[Seven]

Anything taken to the extreme is harmful and many elite sportsmen and women suffer from the strain their bodies went through during their career. These effects can be seen both mentally and physically.

Well, yes and no. With sports it's not that easy to tell. The NFL is a bad example, because it's a very aggressive and physical sport. But what about a 100m sprinter? Bolt is not really going to experience that many harmful effects. Also, one of the most important factors in professional sports is rest. Athletes need to guard against overtraining as to be fit for competition. So in a sense a world class athlete tends to avoid extremes. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo: the damage done to his knees is negligible at best. At age 50 he'll still be more supple than you and I.

 

[ALC]

Yes, but the NFL is truly unique because of the number of concussions. I think it's pretty much the unhealthiest sport one could play anyway, so I wouldn't make it the example .

I don't think it's the "unhealthiest" sport. Plenty of athletes suffer worse stuff from sports like boxing, MMA, even long distance marathons.


Btw, does the prophet say anything about suicide bombings being haram?

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Well, yes and no. With sports it's not that easy to tell. The NFL is a bad example, because it's a very aggressive and physical sport. But what about a 100m sprinter? Bolt is not really going to experience that many harmful effects. Also, one of the most important factors in professional sports is rest. Athletes need to guard against overtraining as to be fit for competition. So in a sense a world class athlete tends to avoid extremes. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo: the damage done to his knees is negligible at best. At age 50 he'll still be more supple than you and I.

Good example with CR7. Do you see Brady being unable to walk when he's 50?