"I support Muslims who love freedom" (17 Viewers)

[Juventino[RUS]]

Let me ask you on this question - according to quran alcohol is haram and was created by the devil, but in heaven you will swim in the rivers of wine according to the same quran
5:90
"O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful."
5:91
"Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?"
47:15
"Is the description of Paradise, which the righteous are promised, wherein are rivers of water unaltered, rivers of milk the taste of which never changes, rivers of wine delicious to those who drink, and rivers of purified honey, in which they will have from all [kinds of] fruits and forgiveness from their Lord, like [that of] those who abide eternally in the Fire and are given to drink scalding water that will sever their intestines?"

also the part about the "intoxicants" sounds in two ways ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ - they had no heroin, amphetamine and so on 1500 years ago, they had wine, beer and ganja

I am really surprised when they call me racist or islamophobe, while i always stated that im against all religions, they dont want to understand that quran is nothing but copy-->paste of the bible

Holy bible
Leviticus 24:16
"Anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death."


PS they will tell you that this is not truth, it's a wrong translation, wrong interpretation blablabla

 

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[lgorTudor]

Since this seems to have become the general Islam thread, I will ask it here.

Alcohol is haram because, according to the Quran you cannot do anything that will cause harm to yourself. So then if that is true, why is it that smoking (cigarettes, hookah, etc) is done so widely?

Applying logic to religion:dielaugh:


Religion is all about being opportunistic. You pick and follow passages you enjoy, you ignore the worky ones. But while christians(except russian orthodox) learned to reform their religion and to not take most parts literally, muslim countries are still in Stone Age.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Let me ask you on this question - according to quran alcohol is haram and was created by the devil, but in heaven you will swim in the rivers of wine according to the same quran
5:90
"O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful."
5:91
"Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?"
47:15
"Is the description of Paradise, which the righteous are promised, wherein are rivers of water unaltered, rivers of milk the taste of which never changes, rivers of wine delicious to those who drink, and rivers of purified honey, in which they will have from all [kinds of] fruits and forgiveness from their Lord, like [that of] those who abide eternally in the Fire and are given to drink scalding water that will sever their intestines?"

also the part about the "intoxicants" sounds in two ways ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ - they had no heroin, amphetamine and so on 1500 years ago, they had wine, beer and ganja

I am really surprised when they call me racist or islamophobe, while i always stated that im against all religions, they dont want to understand that quran is nothing but copy-->paste of the bible

Holy bible
Leviticus 24:16
"Anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death."


PS they will tell you that this is not truth, it's a wrong translation, wrong interpretation blablabla

Applying logic to religion:dielaugh:

I'm just curious . All of these religions are full of contradictions, just the way it is.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

I'm just curious . All of these religions are full of contradictions, just the way it is.

They should start from the beggining - israel was not created by the egyptians slaves, it's a fact - "archaeologists have determined this event never happened. There is no evidence ancient Israel was founded by ex Egyptian slaves fighting their way out of Egypt with miracles. The consensus of modern archaeologists, including Israeli archaeologists, is that the evidence suggests ancient Israel was founded by former Canaanites who rose up against the higher classes"

Noah flood? Never happened - fact
Mountains save us from earhtquakes? No - fact
What more can i say? What kind of evidence they need more? How many rational things and facts you have to show'em to change their mind?

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

I was raised very, very loosely Roman Catholic. I received communion and confirmation and all that, I never go to Church except to get palms and ashes. That said, I do believe in the existence of a God. I do not in any way believe that this God has any bearing on what happens in the world though, I find that to be ridiculous.

That said, I will respect others beliefs so long as it doesn't threaten others. Still I'm going to question things though

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

I was raised very, very loosely Roman Catholic. I received communion and confirmation and all that, I never go to Church except to get palms and ashes. That said, I do believe in the existence of a God. I do not in any way believe that this God has any bearing on what happens in the world though, I find that to be ridiculous.

That said, I will respect others beliefs so long as it doesn't threaten others. Still I'm going to question things though

it's still crazy that they can say thay you will burn in hell for being atheist yet you can't criticize their religion because you can hurt their feelings

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[Klin]

And you think of yourself as smart, right?

 

[ReBeL]

Since this seems to have become the general Islam thread, I will ask it here.
Alcohol is haram because, according to the Quran you cannot do anything that will cause harm to yourself. So then if that is true, why is it that smoking (cigarettes, hookah, etc) is done so widely?

The sources of Sharia are mainly 4 in Islam:
Quran
Sunna "The acts and words of Prophet Muhammad"
Consensus of scholars
Analogy

Alcohol was mentioned in Quran as being haram, but Quran can not mention everything in the world by "name". i.e Using this way of mentioning everything, Quran will be as big as Congress library.

So, the Islamic scholars use other sources to find the islamic ruling for everything in our lives. As mentioned above, the fourth source of Islamic rulings is Analogy. Using this analogy, cigarettes and similar things were decided to be haram also in Islam by seeing its analogy to Alcohol as both hurts the health of the human.

Let me ask you on this question - according to quran alcohol is haram and was created by the devil, but in heaven you will swim in the rivers of wine according to the same quran
5:90
"O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful."
5:91
"Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?"
47:15
"Is the description of Paradise, which the righteous are promised, wherein are rivers of water unaltered, rivers of milk the taste of which never changes, rivers of wine delicious to those who drink, and rivers of purified honey, in which they will have from all [kinds of] fruits and forgiveness from their Lord, like [that of] those who abide eternally in the Fire and are given to drink scalding water that will sever their intestines?"

also the part about the "intoxicants" sounds in two ways ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ - they had no heroin, amphetamine and so on 1500 years ago, they had wine, beer and ganja

I am really surprised when they call me racist or islamophobe, while i always stated that im against all religions, they dont want to understand that quran is nothing but copy-->paste of the bible

Holy bible
Leviticus 24:16
"Anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death."


PS they will tell you that this is not truth, it's a wrong translation, wrong interpretation blablabla

The verses are very well translated. Nobody will tell you they are wrongly translated.

But you have to put in mind that the laws of Earth are not applied in the second life after death. This was mentioned in Quran many times. For example, in the second life there is no death at all. People will be immortal. Why? Because our life now is a testing period. If you pass it, you will live for ever in a very different way where you will be blesses with so many blessings awarding your good works in the first life.

Applying logic to religion:dielaugh:


Religion is all about being opportunistic. You pick and follow passages you enjoy, you ignore the worky ones. But while christians(except russian orthodox) learned to reform their religion and to not take most parts literally, muslim countries are still in Stone Age.

What some Christians did is ignoring the religion, not reforming it. Muslim countries are in the stone age because of political reasons and because of imperialism which has nothing to do with religions. Being in the stone age is not because of Islam at all. Otherwise, how do you explain the scientific developments Muslims made when they were keeping their Islamic beliefs while working at the first centuries of Islam? Now, most of the people are Muslims just by name. They have nothing to do with the soul of Islam. For example, Prophet Muhammad insisted that people should respect each other. Go to any "Islamic" country and see how many people are standing in queues to buy their stuff. This is a very minor example. Try to make analogy for everyhting in the same way.

I'm just curious . All of these religions are full of contradictions, just the way it is.

Would you care to mention "other" contradictions in Islam please?

They should start from the beggining - israel was not created by the egyptians slaves, it's a fact - "archaeologists have determined this event never happened. There is no evidence ancient Israel was founded by ex Egyptian slaves fighting their way out of Egypt with miracles. The consensus of modern archaeologists, including Israeli archaeologists, is that the evidence suggests ancient Israel was founded by former Canaanites who rose up against the higher classes"

Noah flood? Never happened - fact
Mountains save us from earhtquakes? No - fact
What more can i say? What kind of evidence they need more? How many rational things and facts you have to show'em to change their mind?

These are facts to you because the archaeologist who said that is popular at these years. ل Greeks assumed Earth is flat was flat because at those years, the ones who said that were so popular and they were control the minds of the people.

 

[Bianconero81]

And you think of yourself as smart, right?

+Rep

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And you think of yourself as smart, right?

+Rep

 

[Post Ironic]

They should start from the beggining - israel was not created by the egyptians slaves, it's a fact - "archaeologists have determined this event never happened. There is no evidence ancient Israel was founded by ex Egyptian slaves fighting their way out of Egypt with miracles. The consensus of modern archaeologists, including Israeli archaeologists, is that the evidence suggests ancient Israel was founded by former Canaanites who rose up against the higher classes"

Noah flood? Never happened - fact
Mountains save us from earhtquakes? No - fact
What more can i say? What kind of evidence they need more? How many rational things and facts you have to show'em to change their mind?

The flood myths might very well be based in the probabilty of a catastrophic flooding of the Black Sea from the Med as temps rose at the end of the last ice age. This is debated and both sides have presented evidence and there really isn't any consensus on the reality of just how catastrophic and rapid the flooding was.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

And you think of yourself as smart, right?

I am an Einstein if i will compare myself to you

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The flood myths might very well be based in the probabilty of a catastrophic flooding of the Black Sea from the Med as temps rose at the end of the last ice age. This is debated and both sides have presented evidence and there really isn't any consensus on the reality of just how catastrophic and rapid the flooding was.

Evidence of the flood? What kind of evidence? Of course no one can't deny that some tsunami are happened many many years ago but you can find evidence about them, while you can't find any kind of evidence about the GLOBAL flood, look at the mountaints - why some of them weren't eroded as much as the others if global flood had a place? all these debates have nothing in common with Noah and the fairytale about him

also this
and this "Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers.A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence."

 

[Lion]

I was raised very, very loosely Roman Catholic. I received communion and confirmation and all that, I never go to Church except to get palms and ashes. That said, I do believe in the existence of a God. I do not in any way believe that this God has any bearing on what happens in the world though, I find that to be ridiculous.

That said, I will respect others beliefs so long as it doesn't threaten others. Still I'm going to question things though

of course u believe in god. it is only natural to belive in me

 

[Raz]

Rus, you bring shame to mankind.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Muslim members of the Waffen SS 13th Division at prayer during their training in Germany, 1943.

 

[Post Ironic]

I am an Einstein if i will compare myself to you

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Evidence of the flood? What kind of evidence? Of course no one can't deny that some tsunami are happened many many years ago but you can find evidence about them, while you can't find any kind of evidence about the GLOBAL flood, look at the mountaints - why some of them weren't eroded as much as the others if global flood had a place? all these debates have nothing in common with Noah and the fairytale about him

also this
and this "Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers.A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence."

Where did I say a "global" flood happened? That's right, nowhere.

What I said was that there is evidence the Black Sea may have flooded catastrophically at times as the ice age ended and ocean levels rose. There is evidence of settlements far below the surface level, and potential that it rose at a massive rate when the Mediterranean rise high enough to flood in.

Flood myths are clearly the result of localized floods on a major scale near the dawning of civilization, ie. The end of the last ice age. It's quite easy to understand how tales of real events passed down orally became over many generations a tale about a global flood.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Where did I say a "global" flood happened? That's right, nowhere.

What I said was that there is evidence the Black Sea may have flooded catastrophically at times as the ice age ended and ocean levels rose. There is evidence of settlements far below the surface level, and potential that it rose at a massive rate when the Mediterranean rise high enough to flood in.

Flood myths are clearly the result of localized floods on a major scale near the dawning of civilization, ie. The end of the last ice age. It's quite easy to understand how tales of real events passed down orally became over many generations a tale about a global flood.

Also we can find many different strories in many different cultures and nations about the same thing - Atlantis

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

The sources of Sharia are mainly 4 in Islam:
Quran
Sunna "The acts and words of Prophet Muhammad"
Consensus of scholars
Analogy

Alcohol was mentioned in Quran as being haram, but Quran can not mention everything in the world by "name". i.e Using this way of mentioning everything, Quran will be as big as Congress library.

So, the Islamic scholars use other sources to find the islamic ruling for everything in our lives. As mentioned above, the fourth source of Islamic rulings is Analogy. Using this analogy, cigarettes and similar things were decided to be haram also in Islam by seeing its analogy to Alcohol as both hurts the health of the human.

Would you care to mention "other" contradictions in Islam please?

So it IS haram then? But then why is hookah so popular? Do only some scholars consider it to be haram and others don't?

I have in no way even touched a Quran, so I can obviously not provide very good examples, but to claim any belief system is without its contradictions is a bit ridiculous. But here's one, perhaps taken out of context but I would not know:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth ....." (9:29)

"Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not hope for the Days of Allah; It is for Him to recompense (for good or evil) each people according to what they have earned" (45:14)

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of course u believe in god. it is only natural to belive in me

All praise be to your glory

 

[Zé Tahir]

The sources of Sharia are mainly 4 in Islam:
Quran
Sunna "The acts and words of Prophet Muhammad"
Consensus of scholars
Analogy

Alcohol was mentioned in Quran as being haram, but Quran can not mention everything in the world by "name". i.e Using this way of mentioning everything, Quran will be as big as Congress library.

So, the Islamic scholars use other sources to find the islamic ruling for everything in our lives. As mentioned above, the fourth source of Islamic rulings is Analogy. Using this analogy, cigarettes and similar things were decided to be haram also in Islam by seeing its analogy to Alcohol as both hurts the health of the human.

So long as the Qur'an doesn't forbid something it can't be Haram. Even the Holy Prophet didn't make anything haram because he didn't have the authority to do so as only God has the authority to do so, however he did make things Mukroo.

To answer @AFL_ITALIA's question...Alcohol is not haram merely because it's harmful physically, it's also haram because it puts in a state of intoxication and that prevents you from worship as you need to be in a sober state. Also it can lead to addiction. Nothing good can come of it unless it's being used for medicinal purposes. Smoking cigarettes is not haram but there are Quranic verses and Ahadith that encourage that everything should be done in moderation so by that logic a smoker is overindulging and should abstain from smoking excessively but it is not forbidden to smoke (tobacco) because the Qur'an hasn't made it haram.

 

[Martin]

To answer @AFL_ITALIA's question...Alcohol is not haram merely because it's harmful physically, it's also haram because it puts in a state of intoxication and that prevents you from worship as you need to be in a sober state. Also it can lead to addiction. Nothing good can come of it unless it's being used for medicinal purposes. Smoking cigarettes is not haram but there are Quranic verses and Ahadith that encourage that everything should be done in moderation so by that logic a smoker is overindulging and should abstain from smoking excessively but it is not forbidden to smoke (tobacco) because the Qur'an hasn't made it haram.

The number one reason smoking is horrible is because it makes life miserable for everyone around you. It seems the Qu'ran can take an action point here by underlining the social contract.

 

[Raz]

Miserable for everyone around? Well that might be overstating it a bit?