Honour killings (6 Viewers)

Chxta

Onye kwe, Chi ya ekwe
Nov 1, 2004
12,088
#1
There is growing concern among Palestinian human rights workers after the killings of at least six young women in recent months. The murders are described in some quarters as "honour killings". The victims are usually accused of behaving improperly and bringing shame upon their families.

She was last seen at half past two on a Saturday afternoon looking down from a window in her family's apartment.

They live on a main road, in a building that houses an ice-cream shop. Outside a religious procession was making its way through the streets.

Someone walking in that procession, who knew her face and her troubles, glanced up and saw her.

Less than two hours later, she was dead - her skull crushed - reportedly by blows from an iron bar.

Her name was Faten. She was 22-years-old, a Palestinian Christian from the West Bank city of Ramallah.

After her lifeless body was found, her father and an aunt were taken into custody.

Faten had fallen in love with a young man called Samer, a Muslim, from Jericho. Her family disapproved of her choice.

Faten decided to use an ancient formula for resolving disputes, known in Arabic as 'Tanebeh'.

In the last desperate weeks of her life, Faten knew a death sentence was hanging over her head, and she tried hard to escape it.

She attempted to elope, but did not get far and was sent home, to face the wrath of her relatives.

Some reports say beatings from family members resulted in a broken pelvis. Others that she sustained the injury when she jumped from a third floor window.

Either way she wound up in hospital, and her case came to the attention of the governor of Ramallah, Mustafa Issa.

He put guards outside her hospital room to keep her safe while she recovered.

According to the governor here is what happened next:

Faten decided to use an ancient formula for resolving disputes, known in Arabic as "Tanebeh".

The idea is that a woman in distress can appeal to a powerful tribe.

Faten approached a Bedouin tribe in Jericho, who took her in. They asked her father to promise she would not be harmed. After he gave his word, she was returned home.

Within days, she was dead. The governor is greatly troubled by her killing. It was he who looked up from the procession, and saw her face in the window.

Forty-eight hours later, and a half an hour's drive away, two sisters were killed - this time in a Muslim home.

We were turned away from the family home in the east Jerusalem neighbourhood of Jabal Mukkaber. No one there wanted to talk
Police believe this was another so-called honour killing. The victims were a 20-year-old called Amani and her older sister Rodina, who was 27.

Both were married and both had apparently been strangled. A third sister was attacked but survived, and she is now in hospital.

We were turned away from the family home in the east Jerusalem neighbourhood of Jabal Mukkaber. No one there wanted to talk.

One local claimed the head of the household had passed away, and the killings resulted from a dispute about inheritance rights.

But the women's father is very much alive and now in jail, together with their mother. Their brother, the key suspect in the case, is apparently on the run.

As he was taken into custody their father was asked what had happened. He replied, calmly, that he came home to find that his son had killed his daughters.

"Why?" he was asked. "Because they dishonoured the family," he said.

"A married woman who goes with another man isn't good," he said, but added that he had told his son not to do it.


Yousra al-Azam
What was Yousra's offence against morality? Her family denied she committed any. But on her way home, she was ambushed and killed
We know nothing of the final days of Amani and Rodina. Did they too know that death was coming? Did they, like Faten, try to find a way out? There would have been few escape routes available, even if they had gone looking.

In recent months there has been an increase in honour killings in the West Bank and Gaza.

Women's rights activists say they cannot explain the upsurge.

But there has been an increase in general lawlessness in Palestinian areas. And in male-dominated conservative Palestinian society, if a man commits an honour killing he may get off scot-free.

There may never be justice for 19-year-old Yousra: shot dead in Gaza by gunmen from Hamas.

Witnesses said they claimed to be from a morality squad.

On the day of her death, Yousra shopped for her wedding dress, then sat on the beach with her husband to-be and another couple - her sister and her fiancé.

What was Yousra's offence against morality? Her family denied she committed any. But on her way home, she was ambushed and killed.

In a jail in Nablus I once came face to face with the perpetrator of an honour killing.

The local police chief had opened the cells, and summoned all those accused of murder.

When they formed a line-up there was an odd man out. Small, very young-looking.

I asked what he had done. The police chief told me he was 17, and had turned himself in after killing his sister.

Back in Ramallah, Faten lies buried in the Christian cemetery, in a rough grave, without even a headstone. Her father was released from jail for two hours to attend her funeral.
 

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Tom

The DJ
Oct 30, 2001
11,726
#2
Honour killings are disgusting. Anyone committing one of these "holy" crimes should be instantly shot. Its hardly a surprise there's a general negative worldwide attitude towards Islam when folk like that claim to be practising it.
 

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
#4
++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++
Honour killings are disgusting. Anyone committing one of these "holy" crimes should be instantly shot. Its hardly a surprise there's a general negative worldwide attitude towards Islam when folk like that claim to be practising it.

true, but apparently the Christians are also involved in these honor killings.

Palestinian Christian from the West Bank city of Ramallah.
 
OP
Chxta

Chxta

Onye kwe, Chi ya ekwe
Nov 1, 2004
12,088
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5
    From the article, my conclusion is that it's more of a culture thing than a religion thing.

    Anyways, it is a sad culture.
     

    GordoDeCentral

    Diez
    Moderator
    Apr 14, 2005
    70,835
    #7
    ++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++
    Honour killings are disgusting. Anyone committing one of these "holy" crimes should be instantly shot. Its hardly a surprise there's a general negative worldwide attitude towards Islam when folk like that claim to be practising it.
    Can you thouroughly read the article before blabberring non-sensical tirades, as for the negative attitude towards Islam, I will simply suggest that maybe just maybe ignorance and other orientalist propaganda has a bit to do with it.
     

    Majed

    Senior Member
    Jul 17, 2002
    9,630
    #8
    ++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++
    Honour killings are disgusting. Anyone committing one of these "holy" crimes should be instantly shot. Its hardly a surprise there's a general negative worldwide attitude towards Islam when folk like that claim to be practising it.
    Yes. It's sick. Sounds very simialr to pre-Islam Arabia to me.
    While I think these sick murderers should be put to death, doing it "on the spot" is not logical or orderly either.

    Tom:
    1. Chirstians were involded too.
    2. How did you conclude that this was a "holy" crime or a crime done in the name of religion?
    3. We all know where Christianity and Islam stand towards these acts.

    .........

    Palestinians, like all nationalities/races are not perfect. Anyone with half a brain (not pointed to you) wouldn't be dumb enough to brand the majority.
     

    gray

    Senior Member
    Moderator
    Apr 22, 2003
    30,260
    #9
    ++ [ originally posted by iBianconeri ] ++
    true, but apparently the Christians are also involved in these honor killings.
    ++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
    1. Chirstians were involded too.
    You know I'm not here to start a religious argument, but don't you think you're
    taking the quote out of context a bit?
    Less than two hours later, she was dead - her skull crushed - reportedly by blows from an iron bar.

    Her name was Faten. She was 22-years-old, a Palestinian Christian from the West Bank city of Ramallah.
    The only Christian in this story was the victim...
     

    venom

    Senior Member
    Oct 22, 2003
    1,288
    #10
    ++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
    The only Christian in this story was the victim...
    The family's religious background is not mentioned (it might be, just quickly glanced at the text) so I'd guess they'd be christians also.
     

    Tom

    The DJ
    Oct 30, 2001
    11,726
    #11
    ++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
    Can you thouroughly read the article before blabberring non-sensical tirades, as for the negative attitude towards Islam, I will simply suggest that maybe just maybe ignorance and other orientalist propaganda has a bit to do with it.
    Orientalist propaganda? How then do you explain the attitude in the West? I don't think Orientalist propaganda is as far reaching as you would suggest.

    Note the above post assumes orienalist means Japanese/Chinese propaganda etc
     

    Tom

    The DJ
    Oct 30, 2001
    11,726
    #12
    ++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
    Tom:
    1. Chirstians were involded too.
    2. How did you conclude that this was a "holy" crime or a crime done in the name of religion?
    3. We all know where Christianity and Islam stand towards these acts.

    .........

    Palestinians, like all nationalities/races are not perfect. Anyone with half a brain (not pointed to you) wouldn't be dumb enough to brand the majority.
    Yeah, I know, Christians were invloved too. The only mention of a Christian, as gray said is the victim, however the likelihood is that her family was also Christian (they disapproved of her choice as he was a muslim). I'mtaking it on a more general context, since as far as I know the vast majority of these honour killings are 'performed' by Muslims, or at the very least in Muslim dominated society.

    Concluding that it was done in the name of religion comes from the bit about the family disapproving of the 'muslim boy' - in any case all, or nearly oall of the honour killings I've heard about are done in the name of religion, despite the fact that ALL religions are clearly against it, full stop. I don't claim to understand in any way whatsoever the teachings of Islam, but the fact that so many people can claim to be performing evil acts such as suicide bombings/honour killings in its name suggests to me there are loopholes in the teachings, which can easily be deliberately misinterpreted. As for christianity, I do believe this is an isolated case, perhaps it isn't but I've never personally heard of such an occurence before.

    I don't think its dumb to brand the majority - the vast majority of Palestinians will without doubt be good, peaceful people wanting to get about their daily lives free from prejudice and fear, just like every other race/nationality on the planet. As usual its the small fundamentalist minority that screws it up for the rest of them.
     

    GordoDeCentral

    Diez
    Moderator
    Apr 14, 2005
    70,835
    #13
    ++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++


    You know I'm not here to start a religious argument, but don't you think you're
    taking the quote out of context a bit?


    The only Christian in this story was the victim...
    Exactly sir, in case you didnt know honor killing means the family kills their own relative; if victim is christian her family is too. This by the way is what makes me so frustrated; why dont we have the same incriminating attitude towards christianity as we do towards other religions(not that it's right but you know what I mean).
    As to Paolo, orientalist is not the same as orientals(which btw is a deragatory term). And the question you pose is an excellent one. who exactly is educating you on the religion???
     

    GordoDeCentral

    Diez
    Moderator
    Apr 14, 2005
    70,835
    #14
    ++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++


    as far as I know the vast majority of these honour killings are 'performed' by Muslims, or at the very least in Muslim dominated society.
    I find that quite discriminatory, I wont call you a bigot, but what you just said is simply out of line and ignorant. " As far as I know" (generalizing assumptions) is the mother of all stereotype. I hope that I wont need to illustrate it by relating your words to your millieu, as I am sure you're able to do that.
     

    Loppan

    Senior Member
    Jul 13, 2002
    2,528
    #16
    Honour killings makes me sick.

    We have had a coulpe of those in Sweden for example Fatima who was killed by her father just cos she dated a swedish man.

    I don't understand how that can be an honour, to kill one member of your family.
     

    gray

    Senior Member
    Moderator
    Apr 22, 2003
    30,260
    #17
    ++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
    Exactly sir, in case you didnt know honor killing means the family kills their own relative; if victim is christian her family is too.
    Okay lemme get your logic straight:

    1) Honour killing means that a family kills their own relative
    2) The victim in this case was a Christian
    3) Therefore her family must all be Christian to, since they were relatives of the victim...

    I honestly don't mean to sound condescending, but I really don't think that's sufficient evidence that the killers in this case were Christians. Of course I'm a little (okay a lot) biased, but I don't think the wording of the article is specific enough to draw a conclusion.

    The article simply states that the girl was a Christian, and then goes on to say that her suitor was a Muslim. That may sound like sufficient evidence at first glance, and I know a lot of you are probably thinking "quit clutching at straws to defend your religion Graham", but in all honesty it looks to me like the journalist's slant on the story.

    I mean if the article mentioned that the victim was a Juventino, and that her lover was a Milanista, that doesn't necessarily mean that it was the reason for the killing .

    Ahh feck I'm having trouble explaining this :groan:
     

    Tom

    The DJ
    Oct 30, 2001
    11,726
    #18
    ++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
    As to Paolo, orientalist is not the same as orientals(which btw is a deragatory term). And the question you pose is an excellent one. who exactly is educating you on the religion???
    If orientals is a derogatory term then so is "brits" - how is that derogatory, its like saying "scandinavians" is derogatory!

    Who is educating me on religion - well no-one at present, since I'm not going to school anymore but I consider myself to be generally well educated in life - you don't have to be a know--it-all on a topic to discuss it.
     

    Tom

    The DJ
    Oct 30, 2001
    11,726
    #19
    ++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
    I find that quite discriminatory, I wont call you a bigot, but what you just said is simply out of line and ignorant. " As far as I know" (generalizing assumptions) is the mother of all stereotype. I hope that I wont need to illustrate it by relating your words to your millieu, as I am sure you're able to do that.
    Well I'm sorry but I completely disagree. I'm not going to research the hard fact on this, but in every single case of an honour killing bar this one that I've heard of, Muslims were involved. From that evidence if you will I think its a perfectly reasonable conclusion to reach. If you go out and find that the majority of honour killings have in fact been carried out by christians then I'll gladly eat my words, but I find it highly unlikely that this is the case.
     

    Majed

    Senior Member
    Jul 17, 2002
    9,630
    #20
    ++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++


    You know I'm not here to start a religious argument, but don't you think you're
    taking the quote out of context a bit?


    The only Christian in this story was the victim...
    Graham, nobody here is saying that this is the teaching of christianity. Why is it hard for you to understand that a Christian girl's family (therfore also Christian - Yes i'm mkaing this a strong assumption because I know that the majority of people in Ramallah are Christian) disapproved of her relations with her lover so they (or one of their members) killed her?

    Now whether the reason of this honor killing was just for her involvement with a man, or because of his religion (which i doubt because I personally know the culture) is another issue.
     

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