Heysel: In Memoriam (14 Viewers)

Jan 3, 2010
152
In that section he means.
Ow right, my bad.

they weren't next to the Liverpool kop but more on the other side of the stadium
me and my dad were sitting above them in a seated area and they were below us
and my point is simply that the state of the stadium aggrevated the events but it wasn't the cause of it
those fans running riot caused it
There were three seperate causes. It was also unlucky. Yes, the Liverpool fans carry some of the blame, but so do the Belgian police forces and so do the UEFA for having the final in that stadium. It's simply not as onedimensional as you want it to be.
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

David01

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2006
2,825
some of the blame?
if the Liverpool had behaved like ordinary fans NOTHING would have happened
it's as simple as that
all the other stuff only aggrevated the situation but wasn't the cause of it
 
Jan 3, 2010
152
some of the blame?
if the Liverpool had behaved like ordinary fans NOTHING would have happened
it's as simple as that
all the other stuff only aggrevated the situation but wasn't the cause of it
That is a lie.

Imagine the Pool fans doing the same in our Stadio Olimpico today. There is enough police present.

NOTHING would happen.
 

JBF

اختك يا زمن
Aug 5, 2006
18,451
Well we all saw what the "Olympico police" did when our fans attacked Parma, Genoa and Cagliari fans.


Yea, they stood and watched Alex calm them down.
 

David01

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2006
2,825
That is a lie.

Imagine the Pool fans doing the same in our Stadio Olimpico today. There is enough police present.

NOTHING would happen.
why do you keep turning things around
if they all behaved, there would be no need for police and everybody would have stayed on their place thus nothing would have happened
but Liverpool fans charged a couple of times causing panic under the Juve fans
they fled back and the wall collapsed
a larger police force might have stopped them and a good infrastructure might have withstood the pressure but all that wouldn't have been necessary if the Liverpool had behaved
go explain your theory to families of victims and ask them who they blame for the death of their father or son and ask them who they blame
the fans or the stadium?
 
Jan 3, 2010
152
why do you keep turning things around
if they all behaved, there would be no need for police and everybody would have stayed on their place thus nothing would have happened
but Liverpool fans charged a couple of times causing panic under the Juve fans
they fled back and the wall collapsed
a larger police force might have stopped them and a good infrastructure might have withstood the pressure but all that wouldn't have been necessary if the Liverpool had behaved
go explain your theory to families of victims and ask them who they blame for the death of their father or son and ask them who they blame
the fans or the stadium?
I'm turning it around because things like this happened before without that many casualties. The Liverpool fans were not charging thinking they'd kill Juventus fans.
 

JBF

اختك يا زمن
Aug 5, 2006
18,451
You're comparing THAT to Heysel?
:sergio:

You were talking about police and how swiftly they'll act, well they couldn't control the crowd when they were merely "playing" with flares and smoke bombs. What suggests they'll do a better job when even more shit hit the face?
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,194
Throw in alcohol, the tribal mentality of football fans, a decrepid stadium, fans being allowed to stand within touching distance and police who would rather be anywhere else and it's going to end in disaster. I think Liverpool have issues to deal with themselves, particularly with what happened at Hillsborough afterwards. Many teams have problems with fans, including our own, but even up to the CL final in Athens 2007 there were some unsavoury incidents with Liverpool fans involving ticketing, pushing at turnstiled areas, even robbing tickets off each other and children. You can blame all different kinds of conditions for these incidents but there comes a point where you have to take a proportion of the blame, I think the club has done that even if some fans would rather point in other directions.
 

David01

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2006
2,825
I'm turning it around because things like this happened before without that many casualties. The Liverpool fans were not charging thinking they'd kill Juventus fans.
maybe not killing them but they didn't do that to say hello
and they kept doing that when the first victims were already on the pitch covered with a sail
most of the fans behaved but several hundred were drunk as hell and wanted blood, Italian blood
but I don't blame Liverpool or even today's Liverpool fans
what happened was a tragedy and I hope it will never happen again but somehow I doubt it won't
there is too much rivalry and emotion, add to that some alcohol and/or drugs and you know it's bound to go bad sooner or later
 

Gustav

Senior Member
Jul 20, 2008
927
Italian fascists, who were present in force among the Juventus contingent, goaded supporters into making incursions into the main body of Liverpool fans, at the Western end of an enormous shared terrace. What were initially scuffles quickly escalated into a series of serious terrace battles. Then, 20:45 local time, something dreadful happened. The Liverpool fans charged into a solid mass of Juventus support, which was hemmed in on three sides by crumbling concrete walls.
http://bianconeri.tripod.com/heysel.html
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,194
Danilo basically just copied that from a BBC entry, I'm not sure it was ever verified. It's one of those stories given, like it being other British fans in the Liverpool end.

It is better known, like from the first account posted in this thread, that there were a lot of immigrants and poorer fans who took their seats next to the Liverpool fans, hardened, working class southern Italians, Belgians and Italians living in Belgium. Not troublesome people, but also people who wouldn't ignore disrespect.
 

Red

-------
Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
if the Liverpool had behaved like ordinary fans NOTHING would have happened
it's as simple as that
What Liverpool fans did was pretty ordinary behaviour for British fans in the 1980s.

That does not, of course, mean it was right.


Anyway, all people are trying to say is that too great an emphasis is placed on the Liverpool fans' behaviour and not enough blame is attached to other factors, such as the policing and the condition of the stadium.

No-one is saying the Liverpool fans didn't play their part.
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
Heysel deaths marked on 25th anniversary in Liverpool

A plaque to remember the 39 killed during the football riots at Heysel has been unveiled at Anfield stadium.

The permanent tribute was placed on the Centenary Stand to honour the Juventus fans who were crushed to death when a wall collapsed on 29 May 1985.

The Italian supporters were killed trying to run away from Liverpool fans during the European Cup final.

It was the first of several events in the lead up to the 25th anniversary on Saturday.

Former Liverpool captain Phil Neal and former Juventus centre back Sergio Brio, who played in the final, attended the ceremony.

Liverpool City Council leader Joe Anderson and honorary Italian consul Nunzia Bertali planted a White Beam tree in St John's Gardens, behind St George's Hall, as a mark of friendship and respect.

Mrs Bertali said: "After 25 years people often think we should move on but it is lovely Liverpool has decided to remember and commemorate in this way, in the name of friendship.

"I admire the fact Liverpool, and Britain generally, does not stick its head in the sand when wrongs have been done.

"I am so grateful for that and really respect it."

The match went ahead, despite objections from both managers, with Juventus winning 1-0 from a second-half penalty.

Those who died included 32 Italians, four Belgians, two French nationals and a man from Northern Ireland.

Mr Anderson said: "I want to extend my sympathies from the whole city of Liverpool.

"It was a part in our history that we regret deeply and I think its right and proper that we should pay our respects in the way that we are doing."

Civic dignitaries from both clubs and representatives from two Italy-based family support groups were also present at the ceremony which was be presided over by Liverpool's club chaplain Bill Bygroves.

Later this week a delegation from Anfield will visit Turin to attend the commemoration events being organised in the city.

Anfield is already home to a permanent memorial to the 96 fans killed in the Hillsborough disaster in 1989.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/merseyside/10161967.stm
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
Remembering The Heysel Tragedy 25 Years On


On May 29 1985, 59,00 people attended the European Cup Final at Heysel Stadium, Brussels which had previously hosted six European finals and was Belgium’s National Stadium since its inauguration in 1930.

39 of those fans never returned home.

The events of that dreadful night live long in the memory of those who witnessed the horror unfold either at the stadium or watching live on television. While other stadium disasters receive high levels of coverage and are writ large in the general conscience, Heysel is almost the forgotten tragedy.

Events leading up to that final are well documented. Following Liverpool’s victory in the same competition a year earlier, defeating Roma in Rome, much fighting broke out in the Italian capital, with large numbers of Liverpool fans requiring treatment for wounds caused in wide-spread knife attacks.

After this, club rivalries in England were forgotten as many “firms” joined together and headed for Belgium, Juventus would receive the revenge of the English hooligan elite.

Before the 1985 final, it was announced that this would be the last match held at the condemned stadium, built some 60 years earlier, with very little segregation and even less security measures in place the ground simply was not fit for a game of such magnitude, especially when even the most casual fan could see the potential powder-keg.

As a result a large “neutral zone” was designated at the side of the ground, but tickets were freely available outside the ground and it was quickly apparent that this supposed neutral area actually contained fans from both clubs.

A group of Liverpool fans charged across the terraces of this section, causing the Juventus fans to retreat. With no exit, the Juve fans moved towards the perimeter wall, which some tried to climb over. Many escaped, but the wall could not withstand the force of the fleeing supporters and collapsed. It was at this point that the majority of the deaths occurred — 39 people died, and a further 600 were injured.

The absolute horror only became apparent when the names of the dead were released. Far from being Juventus Ultra, families, even children were killed. An 11 year old boy and two women were among those who simply went to watch a game of football and never returned home.

The game, the repercussions for English football, the new measures introduced after Hillsborough to reduce the chances of a repeat all pale in complete insignificance with that one simple truth.

May they always be remembered

Rocco Acerra (29)
Bruno Balli (50)
Alfons Bos
Giancarlo Bruschera (21)
Andrea Casula (11)
Giovanni Casula (44)
Nino Cerullo (24)
Willy Chielens
Giuseppina Conto (17)
Dirk Daenecky
Dionisio Fabbro (51)
Jacques François
Eugenio Gagliano (35)
Francesco Galli (25)
Giancarlo Gonnelli (20)
Alberto Guarini (21)
Giovacchino Landini (50)
Roberto Lorentini (31)
Barbara Lusci (58)
Franco Martelli (22)
Loris Messore (28)
Gianni Mastroiaco (20)
Sergio Bastino Mazzino (38)
Luciano Rocco Papaluca (38)
Luigi Pidone (31)
Benito Pistolato (50)
Patrick Radcliffe
Domenico Ragazzi (44)
Antonio Ragnanese (49)
Claude Robert
Mario Ronchi (43)
Domenico Russo (28)
Tarcisio Salvi (49)
Gianfranco Sarto (47)
Amedeo Giuseppe Spolaore (55)
Mario Spanu (41)
Tarcisio Venturin (23)
Jean Michel Walla
Claudio Zavaroni (28)

by Adamo Digby
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/397047-remembering-heysel-25-years-on
 

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
Heysel still has its impact 25 years later


BRUGES, Belgium - After living through the Heysel Stadium tragedy first hand 25 years ago, FIFA medical chief Michel D'Hooghe knows the importance of planning.

For the World Cup in South Africa, D'Hooghe went through the long list of emergency preparations — available doctors, nearby hospitals, first aid — in case the unthinkable would happen, a disaster at a World Cup stadium.

"You cannot foresee everything," D'Hooghe said. "But I can assure you that never have so many precautions been taken.

"We have prepared for everything possible."

On May 29, 1985, 39 fans died — many crushed to death — when they tried to flee a rush by hooligans at the European Cup final between Liverpool and Juventus at Heysel.

That final was held in a decrepit stadium and entry was badly checked. Despite a strong police force, there was little-to-no security action to contain the deadly rush.

To have it happen at the European Cup final changed things forever. Twenty-five years later, the effects are still felt.

"At that moment, people opened their eyes," D'Hooghe said.

As a Belgian federation official, he had to take care of a Liverpool club delegation. He still remembers the chaos was such that he only learned the number of casualties hours later when he arrived home in Bruges in the middle of the night.

"And as always, they only put a red traffic light after an accident has happened," D'Hooghe said.

Compounded by the Bradford disaster three weeks earlier in northern England when 56 people died in a stadium fire, and the 1989 Hillsborough disaster in Sheffield when 96 fans were crushed to death against fences, soccer changed its ways in Europe.

Up to then, soccer grounds were basically male bastions, often dank, brick, elementary structures rife with bad standing-only views, awful sanitation and almost no concession stands.

"The Heysel disaster really woke everyone up to the fact that it was not just about hooliganism but that it was about infrastructure and the management of crowds," said Simon Inglis, an architectural historian who wrote The Football Grounds of Europe.

Move ahead to June 11, 2010, to the 94,000-seat Soccer City stadium and site of the opening match of the World Cup. The lessons still apply there, too.

Marc Meire remembers first hand what Heysel was like and, as the civil engineer for the Grinaker-LTA contracting company, was in charge of building the World Cup's main stadium. He never wants anyone to go through something like Heysel again.

In 1982, three years ahead of the disaster, security at Heysel was not much better, and Belgian-born Meire still remembers how he got squeezed in a crush at the ground after a grudge match against the Netherlands.

"It is very uncomfortable when your feet loose contact with the ground and you can't breathe," Meire said. "I will never forget the scared face of a young boy squeezed between me and his helpless father."

So having built Soccer City, he knows where security fits in.

"It is top of the list. Arguably more important than spectator comfort and iconic design," he said. "Heysel made an impact on crowd control and access and evacuation. Hillsborough made us look at spectator fences."

South African soccer has had a tragedy, too. In 2001, 43 people died in a crush at a game between Orlando Pirates and Kaizer Chiefs, the country's best-known teams, at Ellis Park in Johannesburg.

"The Ellis Park disaster, where people got trampled at the access gates, showed the necessity for second, wider access control," Meire said.

Wider fencing away from the stadium is another prime feature around Soccer City.

That stadium will also be the latest example of what soccer designers have learned since the tragedies of the 1980s. Since the Heysel disaster, architects looked at stadiums in the United States and realized that the family and comfort had to be at the heart of the soccer experience.

"Good access, comfortable seats, good sight lines, good ventilation, pleasant and attractive surroundings, etc., reduce the levels of frustration and anxiety, thereby increasing the tolerance levels," Meire said.

One thing is still missing.

"If the players can provide a clean spectacle," he said, "we will have winning combination."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100527/sports/soc_wcup_heysel_effect_1
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 14)