Gym and fitness (27 Viewers)

[Zacheryah]

Then the question becomes what dynamic stretching really is.

making vertical circles with your arm while holding a 2.5kg plate for the rotator cuffs

doing pec flies with a 2-5kg dumbel in each hand to stretch open the chest

 

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[Seven]

There are hundreds of studies that show improved performance in speed-strength athletes with dynamic stretching integrated into warm-ups. Not marginal benefits. Actual, measurable benefits. And what dynamic stretching is, is very clear. Each of these studies clearly defines what they use for the warm-up in all modalities. Dynamic, static, no stretch. I know exactly what dynamic stretching is. There are books written about by kinesiology PHDs, and sport science experts.

You're just being stubborn now, and it's silly.



That is your direct quote. You did say there were no studies in favour. Only studies saying stretching may have negative effects. That's simply not true for dynamic stretching. I've linked multiple studies in favour of dynamic stretching integrated into warm-ups and showing measurable performance improvements.

I'm not just being stubborn. Tell me, why would a specific dynamic stretch improve sprint speed? Which ones and why?

 

[Post Ironic]

I'm currently stretching the tendons in my ellbow from the triceps and biceps connections, before doing squats and benchpresses.

Doing so with cables and nearly no weight on it, just to stretch out the muscle and tendon without putting stress onto it.


I find this greatly reduces the times these tendons get inflammated. And a badly inflammated tendon isnt nearly as flexible and can tear quicker, while a bad inflammation is an injury on its own.


So are the patella tendon, quadriceps tendon, and all those near the innter tigh. I could squat without warming those up, but especially the quadriceps tendon tends to start hurting pretty badly when putting significany %max on my back for a bit of volume

You feel it stretches itself out under the weight, but you also feel its in danger of getting damaged cause its not flexible yet. Dynamic stretching works on that



I do static stretching aswel. But thats not for injury purposes, thats to lenghten the hamstrings and romboids for example, to get a better form in the excercise.

I have to do some static stretching also in order to increase/maintain my flexibility and range of motion in O-lifting, otherwise my form would go to shit.

 

[Seven]

making vertical circles with your arm while holding a 2.5kg plate for the rotator cuffs

doing pec flies with a 2-5kg dumbel in each hand to stretch open the chest

So basically you've warmed up the tissues.

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I have to do some static stretching also in order to increase/maintain my flexibility and range of motion in O-lifting, otherwise my form would go to shit.

But do you really? I mean if even guys like Dean Somerset and Eric Cressey tell you that lengthening your hamstrings does fuck all for your squat form where does that leave us?

 

[Zacheryah]

Your tendons hurt because they are overused, Zach. It's that simple. And trust me, I unfortunately know a thing or two about tendon injuries.

My two most commen issues was left quadriceps tendon, and left and right bicep+tricep tendon near ellbow

Doing weightless pauzed squats for series of 20, coupled with using knee sleeves, solved the first issue

Stretching out my arm doing something between a tricep kickback and tricep pulldown with a cord and the lightest weight for reps, mixed with 5kg hammer curls at full stretch bottom, surprisingly solved the tendon issues i've had for the past 2 years.


And i was considering paying top dollar for those rehband ellbow sleeves , but this works.

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So basically you've warmed up the tissues.

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But do you really? I mean if even guys like Dean Somerset and Eric Cressey tell you that lengthening your hamstrings does fuck all for your squat form where does that leave us?

Combination of warming up and stretching out

 

[Post Ironic]

I'm not just being stubborn. Tell me, why would a specific dynamic stretch improve sprint speed? Which ones and why?

I'm not a scientist. I don't know the science behind the improvement. I just know that the results of a large number of peer-reviewed studies suggest dynamic stretching improves performance in acceleration and sprint speed.

 

[Seven]

I'm not a scientist. I don't know the science behind the improvement. I just know that the results of a large number of peer-reviewed studies suggest dynamic stretching improves performance in acceleration and sprint speed.

But do they really? Because what is dynamic stretching? And why does it seemingly only work with a warm up? Is it not just a more extensive warm up?

 

[Post Ironic]

So basically you've warmed up the tissues.

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But do you really? I mean if even guys like Dean Somerset and Eric Cressey tell you that lengthening your hamstrings does $#@! all for your squat form where does that leave us?

What do I care what they tell me? If I can't get to the bottom of a squat because I don't have the flexibility for it, then I can't get under the bar to catch an Olympic lift. That seems pretty simple. There's a base level of active flexibility that must be maintained to even do a full depth squat. I know many people who aren't flexible enough to do this.

I'm not advocating static stretching right before I lift. I've said this multiple times. I do a very little bit on separate days if I notice my flexibility decreasing. I have to maintain a specific ability to drop into a ass to ground squat or I can't O-lift.

For performance, I integrate dynamic stretching into my warm-up before I O-lift, or do anything else that requires speed-strength/power output.

 

[Zacheryah]

Lengtening my hamstrings has dramatically improved my posture for deadlifting, and has had a positive effect on my squat form.

simply put, they dont "turtle up". Wich means i can engage my hamstrings quicker during deadlift, and dont collapse my legs inside while squatting

 

[Seven]

What do I care what they tell me? If I can't get to the bottom of a squat because I don't have the flexibility for it, then I can't get under the bar to catch an Olympic lift. That seems pretty simple. There's a base level of active flexibility that must be maintained to even do a full depth squat. I know many people who aren't flexible enough to do this.

I'm not advocating static stretching right before I lift. I've said this multiple times. I do a very little bit on separate days if I notice my flexibility decreasing. I have to maintain a specific ability to drop into a ass to ground squat or I can't O-lift.

For performance, I integrate dynamic stretching into my warm-up before I O-lift, or do anything else that requires speed-strength/power output.

Because what they tell you is that flexibility doesn't matter. The ability to squat is far more dependent on you having the strength and control to do the movement. If you've never squatted, but stretched your hamstrings all your life, you'd suck at squatting yet you'd be flexible enough for it. You often see this when hypermobile people can't squat.

 

[Post Ironic]

But do they really? Because what is dynamic stretching? And why does it seemingly only work with a warm up? Is it not just a more extensive warm up?

It's sport specific stretching, done actively through movement, integrated into a warm-up.

WTF are you talking about? Of course it's a more extensive warm-up. But it's considered and defined as stretching regardless of semantics you are arguing now. You're arguing with countless PHDs and Sport Science experts now on whether we should call "dynamic stretching" stretching or just warming-up. You're wrong. It's not even an argument. You haven't provided anything to support your opinion. You haven't refuted anything the research I have linked has stated. You've now moved onto arguing the ridiculous semantic that dynamic stretching shouldn't be called stretching.

 

[Seven]

Lengtening my hamstrings has dramatically improved my posture for deadlifting, and has had a positive effect on my squat form.

simply put, they dont "turtle up". Wich means i can engage my hamstrings quicker during deadlift, and dont collapse my legs inside while squatting

Hey, if it works for you you should do it. No question about it. But I think your form got better, because you actually did the movement more.

 

[Post Ironic]

Because what they tell you is that flexibility doesn't matter. The ability to squat is far more dependent on you having the strength and control to do the movement. If you've never squatted, but stretched your hamstrings all your life, you'd suck at squatting yet you'd be flexible enough for it. You often see this when hypermobile people can't squat.

Of course this is true.

It's also true that a bodybuilder who has done quarter squats his whole life and has no "active" flexibility at all can't do a full squat. He can't get deep enough to do a full squat. And weighted squatting alone won't get him there.

 

[Seven]

It's sport specific stretching, done actively through movement, integrated into a warm-up.

WTF are you talking about? Of course it's a more extensive warm-up. But it's considered and defined as stretching regardless of semantics you are arguing now. You're arguing with countless PHDs and Sport Science experts now on whether we should call "dynamic stretching" stretching or just warming-up. You're wrong. It's not even an argument. You haven't provided anything to support your opinion. You haven't refuted anything the research I have linked has stated. You've now moved onto arguing the ridiculous semantic that dynamic stretching shouldn't be called stretching.

It's hardly ridiculous and semantics when there are almost no two studies that define dynamic stretching the same way. Is skipping a dynamic stretch for example?
And my point was that it's just the act of warming up that prevents injuries and improves performance.

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Of course this is true.

It's also true that a bodybuilder who has done quarter squats his whole life and has no "active" flexibility at all can't do a full squat. He can't get deep enough to do a full squat. And weighted squatting alone won't get him there.

Of course it would. If he'd go deeper he'd stretch the tissues needed for the squat. In fact many people can go deeper with weight than without. Flexibility is rarely the answer though. And even if it was we know the actual muscle doesn't change in legth through stretching, rather the brain adapts. Surely the same happens if you just squat deeper.

 

[Post Ironic]

Seven. You're blatantly ignoring studies I have linked that define dynamic stretching, that show it improves speed-strength performance. Done by PHDs in kinesiology and sport science who are at the top of their fields.

And you're telling me I should listen to Cressey and Somerset. The former isn't even a kinesiology major and is basically a glorified personal trainer, and the latter is a bachelor's degree in kinesiology. These two are nowhere near the top of the field for research or information.

 

[Seven]

Seven. You're blatantly ignoring studies I have linked that define dynamic stretching, that show it improves speed-strength performance. Done by PHDs in kinesiology and sport science who are at the top of their fields.

And you're telling me I should listen to Cressey and Somerset. The former isn't even a kinesiology major and is basically a glorified personal trainer, and the latter is a bachelor's degree in kinesiology. These two are nowhere near the top of the field for research or information.

I'm not telling you to listen to anyone. I am however not convinced by studies that have consistenly failed to agree what stretching is, what it does to the body and how it would conceivably work. In light of that I find the work of people in the field more interesting.

That being said I am not a particular fan of either.

 

[Post Ironic]

It's hardly ridiculous and semantics when there are almost no two studies that define dynamic stretching the same way. Is skipping a dynamic stretch for example?
And my point was that it's just the act of warming up that prevents injuries and improves performance.

It is entirely ridiculous. Most of these studies use the very same modalities for dynamic stretching. You haven't even read them. So how on earth would you be qualified to make this claim? Seriously.

And the studies clearly show, with measurable results, that a warm-up without dynamic stretching integrated is nowhere near as effective as a warm-up with dynamic stretching integrated. So that clearly defeats the claim of yours that it is "just the act of warming up" that provides the benefit.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

It feels nice at least

 

[Seven]

It is entirely ridiculous. Most of these studies use the very same modalities for dynamic stretching. You haven't even read them. So how on earth would you be qualified to make this claim? Seriously.

And the studies clearly show, with measurable results, that a warm-up without dynamic stretching integrated is nowhere near as effective as a warm-up with dynamic stretching integrated. So that clearly defeats the claim of yours that it is "just the act of warming up" that provides the benefit.

Okay. So give me one dynamic stretching movement that has been proven to improve sprint times. Surely that can't be hard given your extremely arrogant tone of voice?

 

[Post Ironic]

I'm not telling you to listen to anyone. I am however not convinced by studies that have consistenly failed to agree what stretching is, what it does to the body and how it would conceivably work. In light of that I find the work of people in the field more interesting.

That being said I am not a particular fan of either.

Wait? How are PHDs in kinesiology who are constantly involved in studies with both athletes and regular people not "in the field"...

You're arguing your opinion, with no backing at all, from studies, research, evidence anything. Just your own opinion based mostly on what exactly, I don't know. It's not even an argument. You haven't supported your position with evidence at all.