Greatest player of all time and why (1 Viewer)

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
40,759
Of course, but that's exactly the thing. Club/country titles don't really say anything about an individuals share in those titles.

I didn't see the 5x world's best GK chester included.
Yes, but watching football matches/following football will tell you that Casillas played a big part in both Real Madrid and Spain's success, not only was he a great shot stopper but he was a leader too.

Anyway, I too believe Buffon is the better keeper, Casillas makes more mistakes and has more weaknesses than Buffon does. I don't think the difference is big enough to make it a far fetched claim that Casillas is better.
 

lgorTudor

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2015
24,096
Yes, but watching football matches/following football will tell you that Casillas played a big part in both Real Madrid and Spain's success, not only was he a great shot stopper but he was a leader too.

Anyway, I too believe Buffon is the better keeper, Casillas makes more mistakes and has more weaknesses than Buffon does. I don't think the difference is big enough to make it a far fetched claim that Casillas is better.
This is my Fred :heart:
now admit that Bonucci is better than Ramos
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
40,759
This is my Fred :heart:
now admit that Bonucci is better than Ramos
Absolutely not for the spoiler :D I know I've been through this many times, but for me Ramos is extremely underrated on here. In fact come to think of it, Spanish players in general are not given enough credit here, you'd think the Spanish NT's dominance for a while would mean something, but no, people here will tell you Ramos is shit, Pique is average, Busquets shouldn't be a professional footballer, Casillas is overrated, Xavi only passes sideways, and Spanish players would not be as good in Serie A :p
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
41,768
Yeah, excellence.

Prime fucking Xavi
Prime iniesta
Mascherano
consistantly top3 rightback of the past decade or so
Not finished puyol as a leader
Shaqira's buttplug next to him
Messi

Aka spain's two best midfielders in history, a widely acknowledged excellent captain, the worlds best player under 185cm for the past decade(and above for some of that time aswel). Worlds best CDM since a decade. The luxory to field said CDM as a centreback later cause midfield so damn good, it could use an olympic diver instead of said cdm.

I heard it has to be exceptionally difficult to get a result with such team.



He then coached the team that 7-0'd said team over two legs and won a trebble, and is regarded as probably the most impressive team of the past decade.





Excellence. Fucking please. He started at the best team in the world, took a break, and went to the team that obliterated it.
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
Yes, but watching football matches/following football will tell you that Casillas played a big part in both Real Madrid and Spain's success, not only was he a great shot stopper but he was a leader too.

Anyway, I too believe Buffon is the better keeper, Casillas makes more mistakes and has more weaknesses than Buffon does. I don't think the difference is big enough to make it a far fetched claim that Casillas is better.
Didn't disagree that Casillas was a top top class keeper, best of the 2000es for me just behind Buffon. But titles won are a poor argument imo.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
40,759
Yeah, excellence.

Prime fucking Xavi
Prime iniesta
Mascherano
consistantly top3 rightback of the past decade or so
Not finished puyol as a leader
Shaqira's buttplug next to him
Messi

Aka spain's two best midfielders in history, a widely acknowledged excellent captain, the worlds best player under 185cm for the past decade(and above for some of that time aswel). Worlds best CDM since a decade. The luxory to field said CDM as a centreback later cause midfield so damn good, it could use an olympic diver instead of said cdm.

I heard it has to be exceptionally difficult to get a result with such team.



He then coached the team that 7-0'd said team over two legs and won a trebble, and is regarded as probably the most impressive team of the past decade.





Excellence. Fucking please. He started at the best team in the world, took a break, and went to the team that obliterated it.
Bla bla fuckin bla. Give me any top coach who's won titles with big teams and I can make the same shitty argument; you probably choose who gets credit for titles and who doesn't. Why does a manager of the most expensively assembled team in the history of football get credit for winning the CL with Real Madrid? why does the manager who has spent more than any other manager in the history of the game get credit for the titles he won(Mourinho)? Why do you give credit to a manager like Lippi, who won titles with Juve teams that boasted the likes of a prime Del Piero, Zidane, Davids, Deschamps, Inzaghi, Trezeguet, Buffon, Peruzzi etc. It's a fucking stupid argument, even if you have the best players in the world, it takes a top coach to make them function as a team, and continuously and consistently win the titles Pep has won over the past 6-7 years. But I've been over this a million times, so keep saying he's an average coach while he breaks record after record, and wins title after title.

If I asked you to name the best 5 coaches in the past 15 years, I'll bet half the list are Italians.

Didn't disagree that Casillas was a top top class keeper, best of the 2000es for me just behind Buffon. But titles won are a poor argument imo.
So do I have your word you won't use that argument in a DP vs Totti debate? :D
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,711
Bla bla fuckin bla. Give me any top coach who's won titles with big teams and I can make the same shitty argument; you probably choose who gets credit for titles and who doesn't. Why does a manager of the most expensively assembled team in the history of football get credit for winning the CL with Real Madrid? why does the manager who has spent more than any other manager in the history of the game get credit for the titles he won(Mourinho)? Why do you give credit to a manager like Lippi, who won titles with Juve teams that boasted the likes of a prime Del Piero, Zidane, Davids, Deschamps, Inzaghi, Trezeguet, Buffon, Peruzzi etc. It's a fucking stupid argument, even if you have the best players in the world, it takes a top coach to make them function as a team, and continuously and consistently win the titles Pep has won over the past 6-7 years. But I've been over this a million times, so keep saying he's an average coach while he breaks record after record, and wins title after title.

If I asked you to name the best 5 coaches in the past 15 years, I'll bet half the list are Italians.



So do I have your word you won't use that argument in a DP vs Totti debate? :D

The best coach ever is easily Mourinho. To even debate it would be sheer stupidity. The man has won titles in Portugal, Spain, England and Italy and won the UEFA Cup and Champions League with a small side like Porto.

You can masturbate all you want to Pep and I know we both dislike the figure Mourinho has become, but there really is no debate here.

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Absolutely not for the spoiler :D I know I've been through this many times, but for me Ramos is extremely underrated on here. In fact come to think of it, Spanish players in general are not given enough credit here, you'd think the Spanish NT's dominance for a while would mean something, but no, people here will tell you Ramos is shit, Pique is average, Busquets shouldn't be a professional footballer, Casillas is overrated, Xavi only passes sideways, and Spanish players would not be as good in Serie A :p

Ramos is underrated almost everywhere. People think he's a flashy loser who can't actually play football, but the opposite is true. He's strong, athletic, good in the air and has excellent feet. I do not understand why people don't rate Ramos..
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
So do I have your word you won't use that argument in a DP vs Totti debate? :D
Of course, I always found the argument strange that Totti was a lesser player because he stayed at Roma. I think a lot of his statements towards the press as well as his on-pitch behaviour are very unsportsmanslike, but based on pure football ability I'd rate them about the same. Of course, I haven't really seen anything of them pre-2002, and according to what I've heard DP was a completely different player before his injury, but that's just my impression of those two.

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If I asked you to name the best 5 coaches in the past 15 years, I'll bet half the list are Italians.
Ancelotti & Lippi do belong there though imo :p
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,711
Of course, I always found the argument strange that Totti was a lesser player because he stayed at Roma. I think a lot of his statements towards the press as well as his on-pitch behaviour are very unsportsmanslike, but based on pure football ability I'd rate them about the same. Of course, I haven't really seen anything of them pre-2002, and according to what I've heard DP was a completely different player before his injury, but that's just my impression of those two.

1997-98 Del Piero was an unstoppable force. Not just in terms of footballing ability, but athletically as well. After that injury Del Piero was clearly still a world class player, but to me he was never the same athlete and that does make a big difference.

Look at today's stars: Ronaldo, Messi, Hazard, Sanchez, ... These guys are all incredibly athletic. Of course they are tremendously skilled, but they are also much faster than the defenders they face.
 

duranfj

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2015
6,098
Pep is an amazing coach. Everyone was trying to duplicate his methods, false 9, ticky tacky, high high high pressure.

Not even luis-enrique-barca-with-messi can play like that. Imo ancelotti, mou and pep, top 3.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
40,759
Of course, I always found the argument strange that Totti was a lesser player because he stayed at Roma. I think a lot of his statements towards the press as well as his on-pitch behaviour are very unsportsmanslike, but based on pure football ability I'd rate them about the same. Of course, I haven't really seen anything of them pre-2002, and according to what I've heard DP was a completely different player before his injury, but that's just my impression of those two.

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Ancelotti & Lippi do belong there though imo :p
So you werent lying when you said you just graduated high school ? :shocked:
 

Orgut

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2002
12,024
Best ever is depends on what position you are talking about in GK its the easiest decision as Buffon is by far the best ever!
if we go for a defender I`d say Sammer impressed me the most while if we talk about an attacker - DP was an absolute force but there were players which surely deserve a higher ranking such as Maradona Pele and Messi...
If it wasnt for his injury I`d definitely say Brazilian Ronaldo as he just took the ball forward and no one could stop him didnt really matter who and how much tried to mark him
Maradona is considered by the majority as the best ever slight advantage over Pele but I think Messi when on form is even better so I`d go with Messi
C.Ronaldo is a great player in this generation and actually in every generation but he is not on the level of the Maradonas and Peles
Zidane is the best player to build a team with as he is a player that could make the whole team play better - the perfect playmaker!
 

Maddy

Oracle of Copenhagen
Jul 10, 2009
16,498
Of course, I always found the argument strange that Totti was a lesser player because he stayed at Roma. I think a lot of his statements towards the press as well as his on-pitch behaviour are very unsportsmanslike, but based on pure football ability I'd rate them about the same. Of course, I haven't really seen anything of them pre-2002, and according to what I've heard DP was a completely different player before his injury, but that's just my impression of those two.
That's a shame; 'cos you haven't experienced Del Piero is you haven't experienced him pre his terrible 1998 injury.

That 1997-98 season :cumface:
 

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