Global Financial Crisis (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
- Start date
Yeah, I really do not think those numbers are accurate, or make any sense. There is nothing about pensions, healthcare, or welfare programs in that analysis considering all three would comprise approximately 40% of government spending since 2010. That is actually a very odd and misleading chart... until you realize the source.
"The CBPP… [has] been the go-to resource for consistently reliable analysis on matters of budgets at every level of government" - Joe Biden
I would assume this is very much like the BLS' U-3 Unemployment numbers where they only count folks "looking for work." Perhaps the CBPP only counted programs that marginally don't matter.
---------- Post added 15.08.2012 at 23:35 ----------
I would say so, yes.
"The CBPP… [has] been the go-to resource for consistently reliable analysis on matters of budgets at every level of government" - Joe Biden
I would assume this is very much like the BLS' U-3 Unemployment numbers where they only count folks "looking for work." Perhaps the CBPP only counted programs that marginally don't matter.
---------- Post added 15.08.2012 at 23:35 ----------
I would say so, yes.
IIRC US spendings on defense and military amount to just over 70 billion dollars annually. When a nation is so in debt at the US is, you can't just think in fiscally responsible ways to get out of the debt, with every move you have to consider you social responsibility.
A move that would be fiscally responsible and socially responsible, which would increase the state revenue and automatically serve to decrease debt is abandoning the bush tax cuts for the "rich" and close all legal loopholes, forcing them to pay 37% (i think that's the top income tax in the US). The second socially and fiscally responsible move would be cutting way down on the defense budget. The third thing I would do, which isn't fiscally responsible right on a micro scale would be to push public healthcare through. That would up the costs right now, but on a longer time line you have a healthier population which can put in more hours per year.
This is some of the easy things to do, what I'd do with the US and the debt is nowhere near reality so I won't even bother going into that. (confiscate private property from the rich cats who continue to not pay the taxes they're required to do - boom, how's that for communism?)
A move that would be fiscally responsible and socially responsible, which would increase the state revenue and automatically serve to decrease debt is abandoning the bush tax cuts for the "rich" and close all legal loopholes, forcing them to pay 37% (i think that's the top income tax in the US). The second socially and fiscally responsible move would be cutting way down on the defense budget. The third thing I would do, which isn't fiscally responsible right on a micro scale would be to push public healthcare through. That would up the costs right now, but on a longer time line you have a healthier population which can put in more hours per year.
This is some of the easy things to do, what I'd do with the US and the debt is nowhere near reality so I won't even bother going into that. (confiscate private property from the rich cats who continue to not pay the taxes they're required to do - boom, how's that for communism?)
That is mathematically impossible considering the welfare/retirement programs comprise more than twice the wars.
As a supposed fiscal conservative, I would urge you to watch your sources. That's some foolish stuff right there.
No, you don't understand our situation. The social programs do wear us thin, and the Obummer clowns only exacerbate the problem by their healthcare bill.
Sure, you can confiscate wealth from "rich" folks in the US, but anybody involved with the government or have offshore accounts will skate free on taxes. So what you Europeans advocate is the destruction of the true investors in the nation, which will not help the middle class at all. You don't get it, and never will, because your whole ideology revolves around bankers controlling your fate. Since the Euro, you guys just don't get it, and neither do Americans just so you know.
As a supposed fiscal conservative, I would urge you to watch your sources. That's some foolish stuff right there.
No, you don't understand our situation. The social programs do wear us thin, and the Obummer clowns only exacerbate the problem by their healthcare bill.
Sure, you can confiscate wealth from "rich" folks in the US, but anybody involved with the government or have offshore accounts will skate free on taxes. So what you Europeans advocate is the destruction of the true investors in the nation, which will not help the middle class at all. You don't get it, and never will, because your whole ideology revolves around bankers controlling your fate. Since the Euro, you guys just don't get it, and neither do Americans just so you know.
I suppose it truly is the "Liberal Media" who skews the numbers and blames the entire debt on Wars.
The social programs, or in other words, the supposed "Liberals" masturbation, will never get counted in any government-sponsored economic analysis.
We just printed a jobless claims number of +350,000 this week... and that does not even count their skewing of facts. You have to be kidding me... these are Obama 2008 numbers.
The social programs, or in other words, the supposed "Liberals" masturbation, will never get counted in any government-sponsored economic analysis.
We just printed a jobless claims number of +350,000 this week... and that does not even count their skewing of facts. You have to be kidding me... these are Obama 2008 numbers.
Speaking of EU, listen to this guy, he is right. I have proposed this question to Europeans here time and time again, but they never provide an answer. It is as such: how can a single currency provide economic stability to entirely heterogeneous economies?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/farage-blasts-communist-europe-and-leaders-living-noddy-land
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/farage-blasts-communist-europe-and-leaders-living-noddy-land
The Euro was never meant to take advantage of any economic homogeneity, but was seen as a means to achieve it. It was from the onset a political move rather than an economic one - proven by the fact that nation states were reluctant with enforcing the economic rules needed to make the whole thing work as it should in practice. Now the necessity of such rules has caught up with the European nations that ignored them. But the Euro was more of a scapegoat rather than the cause of the problem in regards with the current crisis. Economic heterogeneity is only a problem if the monetary mechanisms allow it to be so - as is indeed the case with the Euro. Such a problem can be overcome by instituting the necessary changes and not by breaking up the Euro, which is what idiots such as Farage propose.
you've got me wrong and you shouldn't put me in the same box as "europeans". I'm opposed to the euro project and can't wait for it to crash. The reason why I rarely go into realistic political discussions is because i'm a marxist at heart and whenever I'm checking off the voting bill i'm choosing the lesser of the evils on the bill, not because I feel like this is the way to go.
I just don't see how cutting public spending is the way to go, when there is so much private capital just floating around the place. Cutting public spending would cause more people to lose their jobs and in the end further increase public spending on the social safety net (granted, it's hardly a safety net in the US - it's quite embarrassing actually).
Could you go more into depth how cutting public spending (as opposed to cutting the monstrous defense budget) would get the US out of the crisis.
Just for the record, I feel that the bank bail out was a disaster. If public money were to go into the private sector, it should be the government buying the stocks and making the firm publicly owned, rather than just handing tax payer money over to private firms - so please don't think of me as a obama sympathizer.
---------- Post added 17.08.2012 at 14:49 ----------
The Euro zone should crash asap, for the sake of the smaller economies in the european union. Greece should just file for bancrupcy and start over, instead of amassing this debt which will frankly never be payed back but will instead remove fiscal policy control from Athens and hand it over to the IMF.
The Swedes did it the best, the economic crisis is hardly noticed in their country because they didn't bind their currency to the euro (like Denmark did) and therefore could devaluate their currency artificially.
I just don't see how cutting public spending is the way to go, when there is so much private capital just floating around the place. Cutting public spending would cause more people to lose their jobs and in the end further increase public spending on the social safety net (granted, it's hardly a safety net in the US - it's quite embarrassing actually).
Could you go more into depth how cutting public spending (as opposed to cutting the monstrous defense budget) would get the US out of the crisis.
Just for the record, I feel that the bank bail out was a disaster. If public money were to go into the private sector, it should be the government buying the stocks and making the firm publicly owned, rather than just handing tax payer money over to private firms - so please don't think of me as a obama sympathizer.
---------- Post added 17.08.2012 at 14:49 ----------
The Euro zone should crash asap, for the sake of the smaller economies in the european union. Greece should just file for bancrupcy and start over, instead of amassing this debt which will frankly never be payed back but will instead remove fiscal policy control from Athens and hand it over to the IMF.
The Swedes did it the best, the economic crisis is hardly noticed in their country because they didn't bind their currency to the euro (like Denmark did) and therefore could devaluate their currency artificially.
The Euro will crash itself when the time comes in the absence of a solution: there is no doom scenario and when no solution with the Euro is found, then it will be broken up and things will carry on. It would be just wrong to purposefully pursue the breakup of the Eurozone with the argument that it cannot work in no possible way. The Greek problem could have easily been avoided if Greece was actually forced to take up the necessary fiscal and structural reforms, or even in the face of doubts back in 2000, not even allowed the join the Eurozone in the first place. Now Greece is vigorously trying to implement such reforms: too little, too late. The best scenario at this point is, as you stated, to let Greece default, return to the drachma and pull itself up back into shape. But it is hardly too late for the rest of Europe. Italy and Spain are reacting to the crisis with their respective reforms more out of the example Greece is showing than any imminent economic danger. Yes they will be in the shitter of they don't tackle the problem asap, but they at least have more space to enact the necessary reforms and eventually recovery.
But in this regard I am pessimistic: mostly regarding Italy. Italian politics by default are a joke and after the Monti Cabinet is forced aside by elections in 2013, Italian politics will resume normal service. The elected party will very likely be reactionary to the reforms done by the Monti cabinet and Italy will be by 2016 what Greece is today: thrown out of the Euro eventually. In the end the Eurozone will probably survive but with the PIIGS thrown out (bar the pigs that actually behave themselves)
But in this regard I am pessimistic: mostly regarding Italy. Italian politics by default are a joke and after the Monti Cabinet is forced aside by elections in 2013, Italian politics will resume normal service. The elected party will very likely be reactionary to the reforms done by the Monti cabinet and Italy will be by 2016 what Greece is today: thrown out of the Euro eventually. In the end the Eurozone will probably survive but with the PIIGS thrown out (bar the pigs that actually behave themselves)
The smaller economies will suffer the most if the Eurozone crumble. The idea that you can just devaluate yourself out of trouble is old and wrong. One of the major reasons behing the euro was to exactly avoid the devaluation-race that many european countries were part of. The 'succes' of Sweden has alot more to do with the swedish government implementing the necessary reforms prior to the financial crisis in 2008 than being able to devaluate.
---------- Post added 17.08.2012 at 15:42 ----------
This exact reason that the Eurozone is in a crisis. Lack of politicians ready to take the necessary responsibility to solve the situation.
---------- Post added 17.08.2012 at 15:42 ----------
This exact reason that the Eurozone is in a crisis. Lack of politicians ready to take the necessary responsibility to solve the situation.
OP
Brandmon is right. Greece should default and return to the drachma eventhough it's gonna hurt them a lot. But actually, even before they were suggested to make reforms, they were doing horrible. Greece has been in deep debts like forever which points to another thing - how they got in the EU is beyond me, it was such a farce is laughable as they didn't have anything positive to get in, which only points out the political move of the whole Eurozone bullshit. Same goes for Italy really, they might have stronger economy, but they won't be able to handle their debt. The only positive thing in the whole EU is only Germany who are doing absolutely amazing, but they are not crazy enough to work for everybody else, so I agree with their refusal of the bond based on all of the countries. If they can pay their 0.5-1% interest, why the hell should they agree to pay 5 with the new bond? It's just silly, and it sure does look like a Titanic because most of the countries are doing rather bad. One thing that I don't get is small countries trying to get in the EU at this point (yes, my country too), it's a disastrous move and I can't believe people think it's gonna save them.
