Giuseppe Marotta (47 Viewers)

[Nardonejuve]

scoring problems is missing countless concrete opportunities to score, i am not even talking "deadly finishing"

Which fits Juves forward description perfectly.

Vialli coming out and saying "I think I could be of use"............. He really could be of use. Probably would better in front of goal then our forwards even at his current age.
http://football-italia.net/27460/vialli-juventus-offensive

 

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[only-juve]

Include player salary in this discussion as well.

Keep hearing that salary argument over and over again in this forum, seriously what's the difference between paying 2-4 mil for each of our 6 attackers (Martinez included) which will take the total to around 15-20 mil on average or instead paying 5-7 mil for 3 top attackers ?

I work with numbers all my life and I fail to understand your guys argument about how we can afford to pay to those 6 players yet we can't pay that "same amount" to 3 or even 2 players ?

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Keep hearing that salary argument over and over again in this forum, seriously what's the difference between paying 2-4 mil for each of our 6 attackers (Martinez included) which will take the total to around 15-20 mil on average or instead paying 5-7 mil for 3 top attackers ?

I work with numbers all my life and I fail to understand your guys argument about how we can afford to pay to those 6 players yet we can't pay that "same amount" to 3 or even 2 players ?

If you add up all costs, it's more like 1 great striker is about 4 or 5 of the ones we have on our books. So you'll obviously have to make choices, won't you? Do you prefer a solid base of players with basically no "stars" or so called "big players"? Or do you spend big on 1 (or max 2) guys but cut costs elsewhere? Can't have it both ways with how our finances are currently set up.


And while we are lacking a clinical, great player up front (not even Vucinic deserves to be in that category imo), we sure as hell do not have a scoring problem. If we do, then I guess there are only about 2 teams on the planet who don't. Give or take.

 

[Cronios]

Yes, Matri is a fancy dribbler.

Are you claiming that he is a prolific finisher?
In my books he dribbles and passes better than he scores... so does Vucinic and Giovinco and prety much everyone we had.
I have been outlined this fact for years now, it a while till the majority of them forum realised it...

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Are you claiming that he is a prolific finisher?
In my books he dribbles and passes better than he scores... so does Vucinic and Giovinco and prety much everyone we had.

If your books tell you Matri is better at dribbling than at finishing. Or better at dribbling than at basically anything else, your books are wrong.

 

[Cronios]

If your books tell you Matri is better at dribbling than at finishing. Or better at dribbling than at basically anything else, your books are wrong.

Says who? Cause pretty much evryone sees him as an all around usefull player, who can help with his creativity and mostly lacks finishing.
The numbers of his carrier also proove that he was never a prolific finisher to boot from...

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Creativity? When talking about Matri?

Ok.

 

[Raz]

Matri dribbles better then he scorres? I guess Chiellini is the same way, "fancy dribbler" Chiellini. I like the sound of that.

 

[Cronios]

Creativity? When talking about Matri?

Ok.

at any case, do you deny the fact that he was never a prolific finisher?

 

[Klin]

Are you claiming that he is a prolific finisher?
In my books he dribbles and passes better than he scores... so does Vucinic and Giovinco and prety much everyone we had.
I have been outlined this fact for years now, it a while till the majority of them forum realised it...

Matri can't dribble. His best asset is his movement off the ball, hence why it's no surprise the whole team plays better when he's playing. And you don't need to be an expert to realize he's better at scoring than dribbling. Your books are... how can I say this... Wrong.

 

[Raz]

Says who? Cause pretty much evryone sees him as an all around usefull player, who can help with his creativity and mostly lacks finishing.
The numbers of his carrier also proove that he was never a prolific finisher to boot from...

Really not sure if serious...

How can anyone watching football call Matri a creative player? He is a solid finisher, if given continuity and faith he will be a decent finisher. Somewhere in the range around 15+ goals in a good team.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Really not sure if serious...

How can anyone watching football call Matri a creative player? He is a solid finisher, if given continuity and faith he will be a decent finisher. Somewhere in the range around 15+ goals in a good team.

Why even bother having a serious discussion about football with him? He continually makes these ridiculously and hilariously inane statements and will never budge from his position. Seriously, you will get a better discourse out of a brick wall.

That is why I just treat his posts with the contempt that they deserve.

 

[Cronios]

Really not sure if serious...

How can anyone watching football call Matri a creative player? He is a solid finisher, if given continuity and faith he will be a decent finisher. Somewhere in the range around 15+ goals in a good team.

Matri was never a prolific finisher
Proliific finishers are the ones who can score at least one/every two matches with consistency
And to make sure he is not a one season wonder, he shoud do that for more than one seasons
This is what we need, this is what we alack the most
This is what i criticised when we got Amauri and then Matri and then Vucinic
I alone criticized those transfers based on the needs of our team.
It is not me who originally claimed Matri is a good dribbler, passer, team player, worker, modest, off the ball runner, a forward who supports the defense, or whatever, that was the Marotta apoogistists, who ony try to seek an excuse for their idol and tried to present their best characteristics, only to avoid my criticism on their finishing. So ill give them that, not to waste time on semantics.
IMO, the finisher's job is to score goals, Matri never had a priolific rate at doing so, his carrier numbers speak for themselves, he was just the best of the young and Italians Marotta could sign, not what we needed, it was a mistake to invest such a huge ammount on him, just because he was young and Italian (which was our primary object then, with the Itajuve plan, that failed so miserably)
A coupple of impressive goals mean nothing, Amauri shoud have taught us that, Marotta failed us there
And even after his failure, he made of Vucinic yet another star signing, yet another forward who is good at everything else but scoring.
Every year, since Secco we spend the bulk of our transfer budget on CMs and forwards who cant score
As they cant score, in my books i see them as Supporting strikers and not finishers
It matters little, which is their best characteristic, the point is that they are not the 20+ finisher we lack since Treze
Do not try to bail out Marotta's fault on failing with consistency to give us the finisher we need, since the day he joined
What matters is that we have alternatives, on all the other characteristic and we only lack the man to score the goal
None of the payers we got offer that with consistency, i claimed it before we got them and history proved me right, again...

The players i mentioned in my original post, are not all WC players, they are players who accepted to play in this serie A and where all acquired with ammounts that we can afford, as we do spend them and more, each and every year on new CMs and SSs, for 7 consecutive years!

 

[Jem83]

Matri was never a prolific finisher
Proliific finishers are the ones wh can score at least one/every two matches with consistency
And to make sure he is not a one season wonder, he shoud do that for more than one seasons
This is what we need, this is what we alack the most
This is what i criticised when we got Amauri and then Matri and then Vucinic
I alone criticized those transfers based on the needs of our team
It is not me who originay claimed Matri is a good dribbler, passer, team player, worker, modest, off the ball runner, a forward who supports the defense, or whatever, that was the Marotta apoogistists, who ony try to seek an excuse for their idol
IMO, the finisher's job is to score goas, Matri never had a prilific rate at doing so, he was just the best of the young and Italians Marotta could sign, not what we needed, it was a mistake to invest such a huge ammount on him, just because he was young and Italian (which was our primary object then, with the Itajuve plan, that failed so miserably
A coupple of impressive goals mean nothing, Amauri shoud have taught us that, Marotta failed us there
And even after his failure, he made of Vucinic yet another star signing, yet another forward who is good at everything else but scoring
Every year, since Secco we spend the bulk of our transfer budget on CMs and forwards who cant score
As they cant score, in my books i see them as Supporting strikers and not finishers
It matters which is their best characteristic, the point is that they are not the 20+ finisher we had in Treze
Do not try to bail out Marotta's fault on failing with consistency to give us the finisher we need, since the day he joined
What matters is that we have alternatives, on all the other characteristic and we only lack the man to score the goal
None of the payers we got offered, i caimed it before we got them and history proved me right

The players i mentioned in my original post, are not all WC players, they are players who accepted to play in this serie A and where all acquired with ammounts that we can afford, as we do spend them and more, each and every year on new CMs and SSs, for 7 consecutive years!

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

So because he isn't a prolific finisher that makes him a fancy dribbler.

- - - Updated - - -

Let me just tick off the Cronios Cliches Checkpoint List TM

Fancy Dribbler - Check
Mediocre - Check
ItalJuve - Check
CMs/SSs - Check
Marotta incompetent - Check

Anymore I missed?

 

[Raz]

Matri was never a prolific finisher
Proliific finishers are the ones who can score at least one/every two matches with consistency
And to make sure he is not a one season wonder, he shoud do that for more than one seasons
This is what we need, this is what we alack the most
This is what i criticised when we got Amauri and then Matri and then Vucinic
I alone criticized those transfers based on the needs of our team.
It is not me who originally claimed Matri is a good dribbler, passer, team player, worker, modest, off the ball runner, a forward who supports the defense, or whatever, that was the Marotta apoogistists, who ony try to seek an excuse for their idol and tried to present their best characteristics, only to avoid my criticism on their finishing. So ill give them that, not to waste time on semantics.
IMO, the finisher's job is to score goals, Matri never had a priolific rate at doing so, his carrier numbers speak for themselves, he was just the best of the young and Italians Marotta could sign, not what we needed, it was a mistake to invest such a huge ammount on him, just because he was young and Italian (which was our primary object then, with the Itajuve plan, that failed so miserably)
A coupple of impressive goals mean nothing, Amauri shoud have taught us that, Marotta failed us there
And even after his failure, he made of Vucinic yet another star signing, yet another forward who is good at everything else but scoring.
Every year, since Secco we spend the bulk of our transfer budget on CMs and forwards who cant score
As they cant score, in my books i see them as Supporting strikers and not finishers
It matters little, which is their best characteristic, the point is that they are not the 20+ finisher we lack since Treze
Do not try to bail out Marotta's fault on failing with consistency to give us the finisher we need, since the day he joined
What matters is that we have alternatives, on all the other characteristic and we only lack the man to score the goal
None of the payers we got offer that with consistency, i claimed it before we got them and history proved me right, again...

The players i mentioned in my original post, are not all WC players, they are players who accepted to play in this serie A and where all acquired with ammounts that we can afford, as we do spend them and more, each and every year on new CMs and SSs, for 7 consecutive years!

I'm sorry, I didn't read all, I stopped at the consistency part. Matri wasn't given any consistent time from Conte at all, he ether goes back to bench or gets one or two odd games in a row, even when he scores he doesn't get the faith he deserves. Matri seems that kind of player that needs consistency to his game to produce goals, and he didn't get any in his time here.

 

[Hængebøffer]

Matri can't dribble. His best asset is his movement off the ball, hence why it's no surprise the whole team plays better when he's playing. And you don't need to be an expert to realize he's better at scoring than dribbling. Your books are... how can I say this... Wrong.

Are the ignoring part finished?

 

[Klin]

Are the ignoring part finished?

I'm sorry I don't get it.

 

[JuveJay]

I can point out to the contrary that Matri + Quagliarella + Vucinic + Gio + Martinez combined cost this club around 70 mil euros.

Man city (who are considered as care free spenders) spent around 50 mil on both Tevez and Silva and those two are "easily" faar better than anyone we've got in our squad.

I think you're using figures in Euros for Juve players, and Pound Sterling for City players. In Euros:

Martinez €12m
Quagliarella €15m
Matri €18m
Giovinco €7.5m
Vucinic €15m

Total: €67.5m

Salaries before tax

Martinez 4 x €3m = €12m
Quagliarella 5 x €3m = €15m
Matri 6.5 x €3m = €19.5m
Giovinco 3 x €2.8m = €8.4m
Vucinic 4 x €5m = €20m

Total: €74.9m

Grand total: €142.4m

Agüero €45m
Silva €30m
Tevez €47m

Total: €122m

Salaries before tax

Agüero 5 x €13m = €65m
Silva 4 x €8.5m = €34m
Tevez 5 x €10.75m = €53.75m

Total: €152.75m

Grand total: €274.75m

Of course you have to completely ignore mitigating circumstances, in this comparison, as if they aren't important in football.

You have to consider the wage structure, if you want to sign players outside of CL football you pay an arm and a leg or they go to someone who will.

 

[Cronios]

So because he isn't a prolific finisher that makes him a fancy dribbler.

Poor child, you missed the point again.
We are not discussing if Matri's, Giaccherini's, Pepe's, Vucinic's, Giovinco's or etc
dribbles are fancy or not, this is smth subjective.
The point is that none of them is a prolific finisher and never was.
It was a mistake that Marotta has signed them for that, a mistake we are paying with the lack of finishing that haunts and becomes more serious, the more competitive matches we play.

So they are all supporting strikers, as their primary characteristics helps them to offer support, rather than score/finish.
The main reason the common fan, likes about the SSs, is dribbling, with AM's, they usually the best bribblers of the team and the common fans, who care lttle about technical attributes, they tend to love them the most because of that.
I dont care which particular trait clicks for everyone on any of players, i do care about the lack of finishing, that has been systematically neglected, as a priority, while picking forwards.

So ill give that fancy dribble, or whatever reason they like those SSs, because it would be a meaningless discussion to try and convince them, that their touch, run, fickle, pass, lob etc, is not as fancy and what not.
I am accepting for gtanted that, not to waste time with their fans, just to focus on the real dea, the finishing and goals is smth that can be measured with numbers.
It is not subjective, it is smth can be measured!

Matri surely lacks that, Marotta has hired for that, with a hefty overrated a ammount i may add,
with an ammount our direct competitors secured far more competitive finishers.
So the fault lies on Marotta at any case, as he has made an error in judgement.

That was imo clear, since the day he has signed Matri and this is what i criticised.
He was young, impressive amoung the fans for whatever reason, but he never has grown into the finisher Marotta has hoped.
And how did he fixed that mistake? With Vucinic. Again nice player, fancy dribbler or not, but NOT a finisher.
And how does he repairs that second mistake? With borrierofl and then with Bendtner and so on and which spot gets the premium part of our budget in the mean time, the supporting strikers and CMs...

This year he had no excuses, we were campions, in CL, very promising, at best financial state, he had a full summer to find one, more than 50mil (sum commited on Asamoah, Isla and Giovinco alone)
he has accepted the mistakes of the past and declared that our primary target is a prolific finisher.
And what did he do? He have commited 40mil on two more sub midfielders, 10 mil to get our SS back, because he didnt add a bay back clause and only loaned Bendtner...

Really, what more proof of incompetence do you ask??