Another CM is a good idea, we need a LB/CB. How as Lugano been for PSG is he even playing?
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Giuseppe Marotta (69 Viewers)
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The beauty of opinions.
Nenna, are you saying that we didn't need Pirlo and Vidal? Vucinic? Matri? Would you have been happy with Melo, Aquilani, Amauri and Iaquinta instead? You'll find if you go back that more quality and guarantees in these positions are exactly what fans called for, as well as the obvious issues in defence and on the wing. We bought a good RB and several wide players, so the only criticism I see is at LB and in the centre. Although Marotta trusted in Barzagli and he has replayed him.
Nenna, are you saying that we didn't need Pirlo and Vidal? Vucinic? Matri? Would you have been happy with Melo, Aquilani, Amauri and Iaquinta instead? You'll find if you go back that more quality and guarantees in these positions are exactly what fans called for, as well as the obvious issues in defence and on the wing. We bought a good RB and several wide players, so the only criticism I see is at LB and in the centre. Although Marotta trusted in Barzagli and he has replayed him.
1 - Juve got no money for Camo or Trezeguet and were still paying their salaries. Well, in that case, they could simply do the same for guys like Grosso and Amauri. Rescind their contracts or something. I'm not trying to say those guys are Marotta's fault, anyway. My point is the way Juventus is treating their legends these days (mainly Trezeguet and the next seems to be Del Piero already).
2 - Pirlo was signed solely by Marotta? Did you read my whole post? I said I'd put Pirlo in the spotlight of what Marotta has been doing. The midfield was not supposed to be a trio and it was Conte who joined that midfield. That's simply not Marotta work ffs. I give him the credit for Pirlo and Conte (+Vidal and others), but not for the superb way our midfield is working together. Is that so hard to understand? About the last line of that paragraph, well... to me it's way more likely to explain the team's moment based on the quality we have on the midfield than to do the opposite, like you did.
3 - Marotta always, always denied that. I believe it was somekind of gentlemen agreement for the obligation yes, but at least Marotta could be honest to the fans when we're talking about a "professional" like Motta (I don't need to watch the trainings, some of his attitudes during the games are just not acceptable - and no, I'm not talking about his lack of skill). I agreed with sending Giovinco away to play with Del Neri on demand. It was just the co-own super low option that screwed the deal...
4 - And then talk about ridiculous arguments... you just shot your reasonng on the foot with the first bold lol. About the second, Pirlo and Vucinic wanted to get out at all costs and Juve is Juve, not any non-CL club like you're trying to say. Lichtsteiner was playing for Lazio and we had no competition for him. Vidal always showed to be eager about joining us. I give him great credit for getting those guys, but it wasn't really that difficult to convince them.
2 - Pirlo was signed solely by Marotta? Did you read my whole post? I said I'd put Pirlo in the spotlight of what Marotta has been doing. The midfield was not supposed to be a trio and it was Conte who joined that midfield. That's simply not Marotta work ffs. I give him the credit for Pirlo and Conte (+Vidal and others), but not for the superb way our midfield is working together. Is that so hard to understand? About the last line of that paragraph, well... to me it's way more likely to explain the team's moment based on the quality we have on the midfield than to do the opposite, like you did.
3 - Marotta always, always denied that. I believe it was somekind of gentlemen agreement for the obligation yes, but at least Marotta could be honest to the fans when we're talking about a "professional" like Motta (I don't need to watch the trainings, some of his attitudes during the games are just not acceptable - and no, I'm not talking about his lack of skill). I agreed with sending Giovinco away to play with Del Neri on demand. It was just the co-own super low option that screwed the deal...
4 - And then talk about ridiculous arguments... you just shot your reasonng on the foot with the first bold lol. About the second, Pirlo and Vucinic wanted to get out at all costs and Juve is Juve, not any non-CL club like you're trying to say. Lichtsteiner was playing for Lazio and we had no competition for him. Vidal always showed to be eager about joining us. I give him great credit for getting those guys, but it wasn't really that difficult to convince them.
Indeed. He seems to suggest/assume that Beppe has a serious say in tactics. Which anyone who knew Conte for many years as a player, and has followed him as a manager, will find to be a lunatic idea. I have never seen a DG sit by the manager on the bench or dressed in a tracksuit by the manager on the training ground...Who can say...perhaps del neri and ciro had some help from others at the club, but even then, probably not from Beppe. Its not his job, plain and simple. Conte would never have taken the job he had dreamed about since his playing days if he thought for a second that tactics, training, selection were not SOLELY his responsibility. Neither would he have taken the job if he thought for a second that Beppe would be the major voice, the always decisive voice, when it comes to transfers. Antonio literally oozes dignity and integrity, and for example, with the borriello move, if Conte says that he was suggested to him by Beppe, they talked about it, and Conte gave the OK, then I believe just that...
Pirlo took a major risk coming to Juve. His last season at AC littered with injuries, it looked very much like his career was starting to wind down. He clearly still had and has world class talent, and at 32 years old he still could have moved to a club that was heading into the champions league, likely his last chance to perform at the pinnacle... My impression was that Beppe played a major role in him signing for us. The Vidal move was far more impressive. Munich were after him. YEs, we all know that the leverkusen had no intention of selling to Munich, but the player normally has more power if he is coveted by the most powerful club in the country. Even so, after a great season with Leverkusen, solid showings for Chili, he took what he considered a step up to Juve. Again Beppe MUST have played a prominent role in this transfer. By all means, if you know for sure, WHO decided on the signings we made in the summer, please show me the statements, but as far as I know, Beppe signed Pirlo, surely by explaining the investments to be made, the manager who they were after and the aims for the season. As for the other signings...???
Any team, coming off two seasons of abject failure, with far from a world class squad, a new manager coming in with very little top flight experience (as a manager), no champions league football, not even europa football...Its a leap of faith for ANY top quality player to have joined us. And that leap of faith was certainly helped by Beppe, and then by Conte himself when he arrived. We have taken a big risk financially this last 12 months, with everything geared towards getting back into the champions league. But really, it shouldn't take a seasoned football fan to accept that generally, the best players move to the best teams. our allure at the end of last season was the worst I have ever known it as a Juve supporter, in 19 years of following the club. So to me it takes skilful selling of our plans, to bring players to the club who would normally not even consider a team coming off consecutive 7th place finishes, playing lifeless, listless, fragmented football. Pirlo obviously needed to know we were not just aiming for, but investing in hugely, a return to the top, else he may as well just have signed for brescia...(which he will do after us I assume)
I am still unsure as to whether we actually did Trez a favour, or if he was pushed out the club. And if he was pushed out of the club, by whom??? Again, if statements are in circulation to sort that out, i am eager to read them. And I mean statements by Trezeguet, not a juventuz member. Camo was treating the club badly in his final season with us, in my opinion. His effort was awful, his volatility took centre stage for 99% of the time he actually played. He didnt seem happy, interested, or in any way useful. I was glad we got rid of him. Also, I thought that we terminated Camo's contract by mutual consent? Likely paying him off, but not continuing to pay his wages...Camo was great for us, but I never found him to be in the mould of the true greats of the club's history. No class about the man, other than in his boots. Which is OK by some, but it actually matters to me, how a player seems as a Man. Compare him to Trez for example, who always comported himself in a respectful decent manner.
“Juventus is the story of a great love ['storia di un grande amore'] It signifies a lot to me. At Juve I spent the 10 most beautiful years of my football career, in a fantastic, top-level team and with great players by my side.”Trez , Nov 2011.
At worst, you can say that he is too decent to show any bitterness at his alleged 'pushing out'. But that is putting words into his mouth. On what I have known of Trez since his departure, he isn't bitter, and still looks upon the club with huge affection.
'I’ve been, like all Juventus supporters, very fond of David and his 171 goals in 10 years. A player with an average of 17 goals a season does not need any further comments. It’s been a real love affair, David will always be in the heart of all us Juventus supporters.' - Andrea Agnelli speaking of David's departure.
A lot of unanswered questions remain about his move to hercules, but the facts we have suggest no bitterness between player and club, just affection.
Pirlo took a major risk coming to Juve. His last season at AC littered with injuries, it looked very much like his career was starting to wind down. He clearly still had and has world class talent, and at 32 years old he still could have moved to a club that was heading into the champions league, likely his last chance to perform at the pinnacle... My impression was that Beppe played a major role in him signing for us. The Vidal move was far more impressive. Munich were after him. YEs, we all know that the leverkusen had no intention of selling to Munich, but the player normally has more power if he is coveted by the most powerful club in the country. Even so, after a great season with Leverkusen, solid showings for Chili, he took what he considered a step up to Juve. Again Beppe MUST have played a prominent role in this transfer. By all means, if you know for sure, WHO decided on the signings we made in the summer, please show me the statements, but as far as I know, Beppe signed Pirlo, surely by explaining the investments to be made, the manager who they were after and the aims for the season. As for the other signings...???
Any team, coming off two seasons of abject failure, with far from a world class squad, a new manager coming in with very little top flight experience (as a manager), no champions league football, not even europa football...Its a leap of faith for ANY top quality player to have joined us. And that leap of faith was certainly helped by Beppe, and then by Conte himself when he arrived. We have taken a big risk financially this last 12 months, with everything geared towards getting back into the champions league. But really, it shouldn't take a seasoned football fan to accept that generally, the best players move to the best teams. our allure at the end of last season was the worst I have ever known it as a Juve supporter, in 19 years of following the club. So to me it takes skilful selling of our plans, to bring players to the club who would normally not even consider a team coming off consecutive 7th place finishes, playing lifeless, listless, fragmented football. Pirlo obviously needed to know we were not just aiming for, but investing in hugely, a return to the top, else he may as well just have signed for brescia...(which he will do after us I assume)
I am still unsure as to whether we actually did Trez a favour, or if he was pushed out the club. And if he was pushed out of the club, by whom??? Again, if statements are in circulation to sort that out, i am eager to read them. And I mean statements by Trezeguet, not a juventuz member. Camo was treating the club badly in his final season with us, in my opinion. His effort was awful, his volatility took centre stage for 99% of the time he actually played. He didnt seem happy, interested, or in any way useful. I was glad we got rid of him. Also, I thought that we terminated Camo's contract by mutual consent? Likely paying him off, but not continuing to pay his wages...Camo was great for us, but I never found him to be in the mould of the true greats of the club's history. No class about the man, other than in his boots. Which is OK by some, but it actually matters to me, how a player seems as a Man. Compare him to Trez for example, who always comported himself in a respectful decent manner.
“Juventus is the story of a great love ['storia di un grande amore'] It signifies a lot to me. At Juve I spent the 10 most beautiful years of my football career, in a fantastic, top-level team and with great players by my side.”Trez , Nov 2011.
At worst, you can say that he is too decent to show any bitterness at his alleged 'pushing out'. But that is putting words into his mouth. On what I have known of Trez since his departure, he isn't bitter, and still looks upon the club with huge affection.
'I’ve been, like all Juventus supporters, very fond of David and his 171 goals in 10 years. A player with an average of 17 goals a season does not need any further comments. It’s been a real love affair, David will always be in the heart of all us Juventus supporters.' - Andrea Agnelli speaking of David's departure.
A lot of unanswered questions remain about his move to hercules, but the facts we have suggest no bitterness between player and club, just affection.
He signed a top class player, he gets the credit for it. Not for "putting together the best midfield in Serie A". That is the coach's work like you well say. It wasn't an argument against Marotta, but rather against the choice of words.
Put it this way: he could've bought Pirlo and Vidal and our individuals could still not look/work so good together if it wasn't for Conte's obvious evolution.
tl;dr
No, seriously, y u no make shorter posts?
Anyway... wrong and already explained to JJ. And no, Conte is not the only one who has a say in tactics and training. He's the one who choices and obviously makes all his decisions like he purely wants, but he's not the only person working on it. You're the lunatic if you think so.
Don't you know Marotta also had his part in our 7th place season? Why do you keep mentioning it to reinforce your arguments?
Put it this way: he could've bought Pirlo and Vidal and our individuals could still not look/work so good together if it wasn't for Conte's obvious evolution.
tl;dr
No, seriously, y u no make shorter posts?
Anyway... wrong and already explained to JJ. And no, Conte is not the only one who has a say in tactics and training. He's the one who choices and obviously makes all his decisions like he purely wants, but he's not the only person working on it. You're the lunatic if you think so.
Don't you know Marotta also had his part in our 7th place season? Why do you keep mentioning it to reinforce your arguments?
I am still not convinced Marotta has what it takes. Two true champions in the summer once we reach the CL, and I might change my mind.
However, his obsession with loan deals, steals, and quantity over quality approach, not forgetting his penny pinching, not to mention his inability to get rid of the deadwood suggests he has a long long way to go.
However, his obsession with loan deals, steals, and quantity over quality approach, not forgetting his penny pinching, not to mention his inability to get rid of the deadwood suggests he has a long long way to go.
He signed a top class player, he gets the credit for it. Not for "putting together the best midfield in Serie A". That is the coach's work like you well say. It wasn't an argument against Marotta, but rather against the choice of words.
Put it this way: he could've bought Pirlo and Vidal and our individuals could still not look/work so good together if it wasn't for Conte's obvious evolution.
tl;dr
No, seriously, y u no make shorter posts?
Anyway... wrong and already explained to JJ. And no, Conte is not the only one who has a say in tactics and training. He's the one who choices and obviously makes all his decisions like he purely wants, but he's not the only person working on it. You're the lunatic if you think so.
Don't you know Marotta also had his part in our 7th place season? Why do you keep mentioning it to reinforce your arguments?
Put it this way: he could've bought Pirlo and Vidal and our individuals could still not look/work so good together if it wasn't for Conte's obvious evolution.
tl;dr
No, seriously, y u no make shorter posts?
Anyway... wrong and already explained to JJ. And no, Conte is not the only one who has a say in tactics and training. He's the one who choices and obviously makes all his decisions like he purely wants, but he's not the only person working on it. You're the lunatic if you think so.
Don't you know Marotta also had his part in our 7th place season? Why do you keep mentioning it to reinforce your arguments?
No, I'm talking about this mercato. There's no need for more strikers and another CM isn't even necessary really. If Marotta wanted a more creative backup to Pirlo why did he buy Pazienza in the first place? You don't 'guarantee' quality by bringing in Borriello either.
We badly need at least 2 more fullbacks and at least one more wide attacker. Right now we have one good fullback, two shitty ones and 4 shitty wide attackers. The inclusion of a quality fullback in Lichtsteiner has made a huge difference to this team, more of a difference than any backup striker or CM could make. A proper LB would have a two-fold influence on this team - it would first allow Chiellini to move back to CB which would solve the problem of whether to field Bonucci or make an expensive buy for CB (which is ridiculous... why would you buy Hummels for 20M + when we have Chiellini and Barzagli??). Secondly, we would have a natural fullback in the LB position, someone able to attack and cross therefore diversifying our attacks. We have a lot of trouble breaking down those tough defenses and not having a capable left sided attack is a reason why we can't stretch a tough defense.
This mercato, it makes such little sense to be focusing on our forwards and CMs when we clearly have a surplus of players available in those positions while we sorely miss wide players. So I guess Cronios is right in this respect. This market would tell you that we seem to unconditionally buy for those positions regardless of the players available in the squad.
We badly need at least 2 more fullbacks and at least one more wide attacker. Right now we have one good fullback, two shitty ones and 4 shitty wide attackers. The inclusion of a quality fullback in Lichtsteiner has made a huge difference to this team, more of a difference than any backup striker or CM could make. A proper LB would have a two-fold influence on this team - it would first allow Chiellini to move back to CB which would solve the problem of whether to field Bonucci or make an expensive buy for CB (which is ridiculous... why would you buy Hummels for 20M + when we have Chiellini and Barzagli??). Secondly, we would have a natural fullback in the LB position, someone able to attack and cross therefore diversifying our attacks. We have a lot of trouble breaking down those tough defenses and not having a capable left sided attack is a reason why we can't stretch a tough defense.
This mercato, it makes such little sense to be focusing on our forwards and CMs when we clearly have a surplus of players available in those positions while we sorely miss wide players. So I guess Cronios is right in this respect. This market would tell you that we seem to unconditionally buy for those positions regardless of the players available in the squad.
Pazienza was signed for $0, he played a prominent role in a team which did much better than us last season. He was not signed as a Pirlo backup, more likely as a MArchisio, and even more likely, Vidal backup.
Lichsteiner is a top drawer RB. Chiellini is a solid as Hades LB. We have two good fullbacks. Agreed, we have in reserve two 'shitty ones'.
I don't see the problem with Bonucci that many others seem to...for he has been fine. YES, I feel chiellini and barzagli would be far more secure, and if we do grab Caceres, then when injuries and suspensions kick in, we will likely see Martin at LB, Giorgio and Andrea in the middle and the swiss nazi at RB, which would be, on paper at least, stronger than our presently preferred Chiellini/Bonucci/Barzagli/Lichsteiner setup. But essentially, I see no problem with Bonucci starting alongside the calmer, more composed Barzagli, and Chiellini at LB.
My understanding, which may be wayward, of this mercato, is that we are trying to add quality and depth to Defence, Midfield and Attack. With Amauri, Big Vinnycenzo and Toni nothing to do with Conte's plans, and hopefully leaving, it makes sense to bring in some depth, which Borriello supplies. As for midfield, we seem interested in Montolivio and Pizzarro...both of whom seem naturally capable of shouldering the burden of Regista which Pirlo presently shoulders alone. The other main suggestion, is of Caceres, who is apt playing LB/RB, or even CB...
So...we seem to be adding depth, economically, to Defence, Midfield, Attack...would you not agree?
Lichsteiner is a top drawer RB. Chiellini is a solid as Hades LB. We have two good fullbacks. Agreed, we have in reserve two 'shitty ones'.
I don't see the problem with Bonucci that many others seem to...for he has been fine. YES, I feel chiellini and barzagli would be far more secure, and if we do grab Caceres, then when injuries and suspensions kick in, we will likely see Martin at LB, Giorgio and Andrea in the middle and the swiss nazi at RB, which would be, on paper at least, stronger than our presently preferred Chiellini/Bonucci/Barzagli/Lichsteiner setup. But essentially, I see no problem with Bonucci starting alongside the calmer, more composed Barzagli, and Chiellini at LB.
My understanding, which may be wayward, of this mercato, is that we are trying to add quality and depth to Defence, Midfield and Attack. With Amauri, Big Vinnycenzo and Toni nothing to do with Conte's plans, and hopefully leaving, it makes sense to bring in some depth, which Borriello supplies. As for midfield, we seem interested in Montolivio and Pizzarro...both of whom seem naturally capable of shouldering the burden of Regista which Pirlo presently shoulders alone. The other main suggestion, is of Caceres, who is apt playing LB/RB, or even CB...
So...we seem to be adding depth, economically, to Defence, Midfield, Attack...would you not agree?
Ziegler...an established, competent LB. and Lichsteiner...perhaps the best RB in Serie A. With Bonucci staying, perhaps, if the media, not Beppe, is to be believed, instead of Alvez or Lugano coming. Sorensen...a kid who had shown immense potential and composure...Beppe AND CONTE seemed to focus on the defence, as much as other areas.
You do not see us pursuing a defensive signing, so how do you interpret our near to definite interest in Caceres?
and going back to Nenna's post...We have Vucinic, Giaccherini, Elia, Estigarribia...who can all play left attack. Not a world class line-up, but still, a vibrant mix...the last thing we need is more wide attackers.
You do not see us pursuing a defensive signing, so how do you interpret our near to definite interest in Caceres?
and going back to Nenna's post...We have Vucinic, Giaccherini, Elia, Estigarribia...who can all play left attack. Not a world class line-up, but still, a vibrant mix...the last thing we need is more wide attackers.
RB was in a crisis situation with the hopeless Marco Motta and Grygera's exit, so a signing had to be made.
Ziegler was bought and then fucked off...where is the replacement?
Caceres is a utility defensive signing...not a proper backup for any of the 3 positions and I daresay not good enough to be a starter either.
Marotta failed to sell Bonucci as terms could not be met, otherwise he was gone as well.
Ziegler was bought and then fucked off...where is the replacement?
Caceres is a utility defensive signing...not a proper backup for any of the 3 positions and I daresay not good enough to be a starter either.
Marotta failed to sell Bonucci as terms could not be met, otherwise he was gone as well.