baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
J83: The reason Marrotta pulled off the 'great' Pirlo signing was because we started talking to him six months in advance. Also, when you consider what kind of salary, he's on, youll realise only two other clubs besides AC could afford him, one of whom he had already played for. So that leaves us. Chelsea were a suitor with Ancelotti at the helm, but he was fired, and that completely threw the dice in our favour. I don't see how Marrotta pulled it off like it was the most twisted saga of the summer.

Vidal was a hot contest between Bayern and us, more than any other clubs. And given that Bayer wouldn't sell him within Germany, it made our job easier, as did the player's will to a great extent which helps with pricing as well. It happened with Krasic a year earlier when ManCity came knocking but he chose Juve. It wasn't Marrotta's genius as much as it was the will of the player. Marrotta's true genius could and should've been measured by the Sanchez, Aguero and Rossi deals, the kind of players he mentioned very categorically in the press. He failed in all, and that's how we ended up spending on more areas. Yes we cant compare with ManCity and Barcelona and half of Europe, but if we hadnt spent on quantity thhen we might have had a shot given that our net spends are more than ManCity. Also we need to ask ourselves why we spent one third of our summer chasing players we failed to sign eventually? It shows on Marrotta because if we were intelligent with our allocation, the finances were there.

You misunderstood the bit about Quag. I said that those fantastic players Iaq, Amauri and Toni should've been first in the firing line before Quag. It has nothing to do with Matri's purchase.

About Barzagli, what I'm trying to say is Conte worked with what he had and it clicked because Marrotta had bought him in as replacement for Legro. And Conte didnt trust Bonucci enough at the start of the season. The starting CB was a priority we failed to close on, on the last day of the market because Beppe couldn't close. Rhodolfo, Astori, Alves, Alex. Take your pick. The Barzagli signing looks really shrewd but in reality it shows we have a position that still needs cover.

Pepe was being used in a swap deal because he was a mediocre player who had put in medicre performances and was therefore being sold. I can understand that. But then, if that's the case, why did we buy him in the first place. Because I don't think he was a shadow of himself at Juventus. He was always this player. Nothing more. Nothing less. To think that Marrotta got him and Licht at the same price should make you wonder how hit and miss he is in his valuation of the market and the players he deals with.

As for Bonucci, again no harm in wanting another defender. I can live with Conte wanting another player, but buying a relative unknown player for 15m in the first place? Faced with this situation, it only means, its another deal we'd be losing a lot of money on because Marrotta failed in a)valuing the player, b)convincing Conte to see what he had seen in the player to value him such. Should we even mention the Ziegler phenomena? He lacks basic long term vision because deals like just prove Juventus to be a revolving door. The key to a strong foundation of all successful teams, is continuity.

I fault Marrotta for three things primarily. These are: not understanding the culture of the club and it's process. You cant try and change a system you havent been part of, overnight. In his first season, he made unnecessary changes that affected our level of quality and increased spends on the market unnecessarily. If you remember, when Marrotta first came and said that the goal of the market was not to revolutionise the squad but to reduce salaries and decrease the age of the squad. I don't think he really did that effectively enough. A signing like Luca Toni for instance, didn't reduce the salary cap, nor did it decrease the age of the squad. That too, while Trezeguet continued being on the books. At another club!!!

And secondly, his inability to communicate through the press. No director ever talks about signing world class players and naming them and then signing Vucinic. I'm sorry, but its just not done. Then you talk about achieving fourth place after one bad season. That is suicide. Shows an amateurish mind at work who can't keep his cards close to his chest. A lot of the reason why we ended up with the players we did this season, and the way they were integrated into the squad came down to Conte's vision for each of them.

You probably may not agree but loan with an option to buy is a recipe for disaster. A guy who does that as blatantly as our main man, is as unsure of himself as he is, of the vision he has for the club he works with. I feel like Marrotta is conditioned by working for smaller clubs that he just doesn't have it in him to understand and cut it at the biggest club of them all. I'm glad we have a guy like Conte who will not suck up to him and perhaps try and break his thinking with his own winning mentality that he imbibed during his time at Juventus.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
75,043
Yep, this is true no matter what happens.
As is the fact that our squad is way too big & slightly unbalanced.

But I can't applaud him enough for his decision not to sign Aguero :D
True, the squad size and balance is quite horrendous. In terms of the centre forwards it is understandable that we are 7 stacked when we couldn't get rid of €4.2m Amauri and Crockinta, but having 17 wingers and 1 left back is puzzling. Even more so when one was loaned out. Marotta can take the blame for that as well, even though it was clearly Conte.

And where do you find those avatars? :D
 

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
Source? Was it when he said: "Contatti con Mazzarri? Smentisco categoricamente"?

Surely we are not going on press fever again? Are you privy to the workings inside the club?
I think he was pretty clear that Andrea Agnelli had met and hired Conte in one meeting. That meeting probably had more to do with ultras calling his name than Marrotta shortlisting him because up until that point, not only Beppe, but Mazzarri himself and DeLaurentis had mentioned talks with Juventus. That connection wasn't very hard to see when you trace down their working relationship in the past. He hired Del Neri for the same reason. And was going to repeat the mistake with Mazzarri if Andrea didn't step in. This guy works in his small club comfort zone. He's done enough to prove it.
 

Buck Fuddy

Lara Chedraoui fanboy
May 22, 2009
10,897
True, the squad size and balance is quite horrendous. In terms of the centre forwards it is understandable that we are 7 stacked when we couldn't get rid of €4.2m Amauri and Crockinta, but having 17 wingers and 1 left back is puzzling. Even more so when one was loaned out. Marotta can take the blame for that as well, even though it was clearly Conte.

And where do you find those avatars? :D
I wouldn't agree that it's understandable that we have 7 forwards. Especially when 2 of them seem to have no chance to even make the bench. Remains to be seen what the case with Iaquinta is, since he was immediately called up again the moment he was fit, but hasn't actually made the bench.
And I do realise that it is far from easy to offload these players considering their contracts, but it ultimately is his responsability to provide us with a balanced (both in terms of size & cover for the different positions) squad. Which he did not do.
I do not have many problems with the players that arrived, nor with the ones that left though.


And to answer your question: This place called the internet. You should check it out, it really has it all. And when I say all, I mean funny pics and lotsa porn.
 

deggen10

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2011
1,182
4 European cup finals in a row (95-98) plus 2003 final, i think thats more than an ordinary achievement, not to mention all the domestic titles that we've won.
Yeah I watched them. Different world back then. There were like 14 Italians in the CL winning squad. Imagine trying to replicate that.

You guys give Marotta waay too much credit for our results this season.
That's true. There is so much luck, circumstance involved. The fan-hate Marotta creates though is good entertainment.
If not for Conte and he's work here, most here would be cursing Marotta's ass right now.

Moggi managed to sign a player for less than 5 millions who happened to be the best player in the world few years later and we sold him for a world record fee, lets see Marotta do that before we compare the two of them.....
Yeah and that f*cker scored one of the goals of all time to give RM another freakin CL. 3-1 in that period.
 

Fake Melo

Ghost Division
Sep 3, 2010
37,077
I think he was pretty clear that Andrea Agnelli had met and hired Conte in one meeting. That meeting probably had more to do with ultras calling his name than Marrotta shortlisting him because up until that point, not only Beppe, but Mazzarri himself and DeLaurentis had mentioned talks with Juventus. That connection wasn't very hard to see when you trace down their working relationship in the past. He hired Del Neri for the same reason. And was going to repeat the mistake with Mazzarri if Andrea didn't step in. This guy works in his small club comfort zone. He's done enough to prove it.
You read too much into it. I mean, how do we know what happened? If we keep believing the media we'd have Aguero, Dzeko, Nasri, Hazard and frickin Zidane in our team. There's no proof of Marotta trying to hire Mazzarri but Agnelli stepping in and hiring Conte instead. Whole management works together. I am sure even Pavel had a hand in it.
 

Jem83

maitre'd at Canal Bar
Nov 7, 2005
22,870
baggio: I thank you for enganging in a serious discussion about Marotta, contrary to those who just visit the thread from time to time just to bash him for no apparant reason. You raise some interesting points that have made me think about all of this from a different perspective. Still, I feel that you base a little too much of your views on rumours rather than facts. What I've tried to do in my posts regarding Marotta is to just stick to the facts. And the fact that he brought us Matri, Quag, Krasic, Pirlo, Vidal, Lichtsteiner, Barzagli, Vucinic, Pepe, Bonucci etc. is all I really need. Some of those signings are indeed better than others, but I believe a couple of them can be called fantastic signings. I've also stuck to other facts, but there's no point in rewriting all that I've written before.

Remember also that Galliani signs his occasional Emmanuelson, Bonera, Yepes and Strasser. So it's not like he nets himself an Ibra every time.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
75,043
I think he was pretty clear that Andrea Agnelli had met and hired Conte in one meeting. That meeting probably had more to do with ultras calling his name than Marrotta shortlisting him because up until that point, not only Beppe, but Mazzarri himself and DeLaurentis had mentioned talks with Juventus. That connection wasn't very hard to see when you trace down their working relationship in the past. He hired Del Neri for the same reason. And was going to repeat the mistake with Mazzarri if Andrea didn't step in. This guy works in his small club comfort zone. He's done enough to prove it.
I think their past working relationship is the basis of the rumours. De Laurentiis and Mazzarri were working a good angle between themselves. Mazzarri gets a new contract out of it, great work all round.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
75,043
I wouldn't agree that it's understandable that we have 7 forwards. Especially when 2 of them seem to have no chance to even make the bench. Remains to be seen what the case with Iaquinta is, since he was immediately called up again the moment he was fit, but hasn't actually made the bench.
And I do realise that it is far from easy to offload these players considering their contracts, but it ultimately is his responsability to provide us with a balanced (both in terms of size & cover for the different positions) squad. Which he did not do.
I do not have many problems with the players that arrived, nor with the ones that left though.


And to answer your question: This place called the internet. You should check it out, it really has it all. And when I say all, I mean funny pics and lotsa porn.
Discounting Amauri and Iaquinta for reasons specified, I don't find a problem with the striking options from the beginning of the campaign. There are basically 4 players who can play the central striker role (Matri, Toni, Quagliarella, Vucinic), and considering we were supposed to be playing a 4-2-4 hybrid in line with Conte's style at his other clubs, at the start of the season, it also explains why we signed Elia, Giaccherini and Estigarribia to go with Pepe and Krasic. Maybe it's one 'winger' too heavy for our 2011-12 campaign, but Estigarribia in particular was/is a low risk throw of the dice.

Now we are firmly settled into 4-3-3 with 3 virtually central midfielders, it's 9 into 3 up front. I'd say Marotta is to blame for getting carried away in the transfer market, but he, the coach and board are all linked and reflect on each other.
 

Buck Fuddy

Lara Chedraoui fanboy
May 22, 2009
10,897
It's much more fun if you do some exploring by yourself.

Besides, holding your hand while you're surfing the net looking for the "good stuff" is just not something I am willing to do.


On a Monday.
 

Buck Fuddy

Lara Chedraoui fanboy
May 22, 2009
10,897
Doubt it. Actually haven't played it for more than a month now. What with my busy schedule of watching movies & sleeping. Maybe I should quit my job, in an effort to get my priorities straight :agree:
 

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