Lo-Pan, you do realize that our historical greatness helps us recruit players right? You make it sound like Marotta's working against some sort of burden there. You also realize that Beppe was the one who brought in a TON of new players before one of our two worst seasons in history? The guy who also let go of several very useful players for peanuts as well. The guy that had to "chop and change" the manager that he hired?
The obsessive bitching about Marotta can get old, but surely we need to see a return on our transactions before crowning this a job well done - especially after last year's mercato masterpiece. There is no way in hell we should have to buy this many players two seasons in a row. Continuity is so important, and Marotta has to take his fair share of the blame in that regard.
After last years summer mercato and dreadful season, is it really so hard for you to believe that people are still pissed with Marotta? Seriously?
Licht is a very nice pickup, Ziegler is obviously not of that caliber. Yeah, he's free, but this has been one of our absolute WORST positions for years, and we really should have approached it as such. We should have targeted a significant upgrade at LB. This should have been one of our very first priorities.
We also desperately need help at CB. I'm not satisfied with the work that's been done on our back line, considering how poor it has been since Calciopoli - but especially the past 2 years. There's still time, of course, but Marotta is starting to push it here; if Juventus is going to finish 3rd, a good start is imperative. Having players ready for camp, and pre-season can make such a big difference in the early going; we need those points.
Vidal looks like he could be our best signing of the Mercato, especially when you consider the price paid. Unfortunately, loaning Melo also looks to be one of our worst moves of the mercato. I really can't say that we could have kept him, none of us knows the whole story, but he was pretty damn good last year; we should have been able to sell him straight up. Gala better pick up that option, or we might have problems getting any sort of decent return on a player who cost us a ton, and was very useful. If he doesn't have a GREAT season in the Turkish league (which is possible, due to language, culture, environment, etc.), then we could be looking at a pretty poor market for Melo next year.
Not picking up Aquilani at 16M was obvious - Beppe shouldn't really get too much credit for that. Pirlo for free seems like it should be a good move, although giving a lucrative contract to an elder statesmen seems to run counter to the M.O. GM initially declared. Anyway, I digress. Pirlo's expensive, but he'll be a quality teammate, provide lots of leadership and be a good backup in short order. I'm not a fan of Pazienza, and I would have liked to see a youngster fill that role, but that's just me. Momo had to go, he couldn't stay healthy, and when he was (the past two seasons) he wasn't good.
We needed another forward, Vucinic at 15M looks like a really solid piece of business. It didn't make sense to spend 40M on a forward with so many holes in the squad, and this was a very nice move.
I noticed that you didn't mention us buying Pepe here, or Motta, and I suppose you're including them in last years mercato? It's hard to say whether these unofficial loan/purchases that everyone is always talking about are true or not. That obligation isn't technically legal though, and buying Pepe at 10M is silly - especially considering Conte's 'fondness' for him - or lack thereof. I also can't believe we're keeping Motta. I always figured we'd buy him, but I thought we'd turn around and sell him.
It's understandable that a lot of our players are hard to move, but the reality is that some of them need to be moved - sold, or bought out. We desperately need to remove unhappy players from the environment, if we're going to forge a strong team mentality. Marotta's gotta do more than sell Sissoko to PSG, and rescind Tiago's contract to get a pass here. Two weeks left for a fairly considerable job.
Fuck Aguero, he's a mercenary, I agree that Marotta can't be blamed for missing on him. However, by invoking several specific names in interviews (Tevez, Aguero, Rossi) he created a level of expectation that he couldn't fulfill. He's a public figure, and he's going to take abuse for that - and rightfully so, in my opinion. Having ambition is one thing, but he should be aware of what it will usually require to buy players of that caliber in this inflated market - this market isn't some new phenomenon, it's been going on like this for awhile now. If you're going to talk the talk, you better have the means to walk the walk; especially with our historically spoiled fan base.
Marotta has brought in some quality this mercato; there's little doubt some good players have been signed. But how can you say he's done brilliantly? That's pretty excessive, man. In my opinion, he's done a shit job of prioritizing - AGAIN - and really targeting 3 of our 4 major weak spots. We'll likely get another defender, but right now LB, CB, and LM can be classified as fairly weak, or pretty damn deficient; I'm satisfied with Licht - although, I don't like the Motta back up plan.
Finally, he's been in charge of our transfers for over 400 days, and we still don't have a proper LM. Not even one (Edit - I guess if you count Paquato, and we keep him, that's 1 - albeit 1 who's unproven at this level). Despite Marotta hiring TWO managers who preferentially employ a 4-4-2. How is that even possible? That's just so much time to scout players, set aside a healthy budget, and make a strong move - it should have been done well before the last couple weeks of the mercato.
Anyway, hopefully we'll sign Alex and Vargas (I haven't seen enough of Ramirez to rate him), while keeping Pasquato. I'd love to see that physicality added to our lineup - both of those guys can knock some heads. If that happens, then this has been a pretty good mercato, despite a certain group feeling cheated that we didn't bring in the desired 'big name'.
my mention of history was part of the description of our current state. we most definitely ARE a team with a glorious, heavy history, and we most definitely have fucked up horribly for two years in a row. we are a falling giant. we also have not qualified for europe. Those lines make sense...if it wasn't for our history we wouldnt have attracted krasic, nor would we have attracted Vidal, nor Pirlo for that matter.
our squad was in an awful state last summer. And we didnt seem to have much $ to spend...hence the loans with options to buy routine. I understand that most full transfers are paid over several years, but that is different to a loan with option to buy...which suggest we didnt have much money, or we really werent sure about the players we loaned in.
I am not referring to last season's mercato, i am referring to this current mercato. hence me listing the moves beppe has made in THIS mercato...
how well you or i judge beppe's work is an opinion...the season hasn't even begun, so how the hell can anyone measure the values of the moves in questions with anything but an opinion. Come next may, there will be the results to fall back upon.
I am in agreement regarding vucinic. its a good deal. As for motta...i also assumed we were only buying him dirst cheap to use as some value in an exchange for another player elsewhere.
The LM position hasn't been properly sorted out since Nedved retired...in fact its only this current mercato (as well as Matri from January) where I see us bringing in true quality after our old quality players left/retired. It was a strange story with Trez...nobody seems to know for absolute certain why and how he left the club. The fact that he went to play for a small plucky spanish team to enjoy a provincial lifestyle and keep his missus happy through living closer to her family than for many years seems the bmost commonly expressed reason, but others have suggested he was put out to pasture, and prematurely at that. Camo had to leave, he was far more an expensive hindrance than any help by the point when he left.
But yes...if there is one major failing of Beppe's, which I can never defend, even in my most playful and happy bouts of optimism, its the LM/LW position. Giovinco had reached a point close to cutting ties with the club. Why he wasn't given more chances, is a debate in itself, but to co-own him to parma, I figure was an OK move, and aso, in my opinion some of Delneri's doing as well as Sebastian himself wanting to get out. However the Martinez move remains shocking. Overpaid a little for a player coming of a decent season, but moreover, delneri's wingers are touchline hugging up and down the flanks hard workers. Jorge is a wide left forward whose best spells have come when he cuts in with pace, flair and has a pop at goal himself. Still to this day I cannot understand that move. The others...motta, bonucci, quagiarella, krasic, sorenson, storari, barzagli, toni, matri...for me, were OK/good/great moves. Sorenson, matri, quags, storari especially, fall into the 'great moves'. I was also happy with the bonucci deal. But jorge? the best I can say, is that the catania jorge would be useful to conte, but was never useful to delneri.
The LM, I am hoping we fill with someone quality before the mercato door slams shut. I do not see our CB area as deprived of quality as you. As last season both CBs had to play 2 positions each, they were regularly stretched all over the place. Even Chiellini was made to look out of sorts through the Grosso factor. If we can grab alex/lugano and a quality LM, beppe will deserve some praise.
as for removing the dead wood...its a hard task when the players are shit, and coming of a woeful last term. ...ahh...but i have forgotten to mention Pepe. which is the only move alongside martinez which I have never been happy with. At least he puts in a good shift I suppose. Other than those two moves, I have been fairly happy last summer and content with january, and very satisfied with this summer so far.
I can understand why people are dubious, and wanting us to be back where we should be, but not members repeatedly writing useless remarks like 'fuck beppe, he is a dodgy eyed cunt who is killing our club'.
How do you expect Beppe to get rid of the other players who we want rid of? Amauri is on big $ with us, and doesnt appear to have many takers or eagerness to drop wages, i suspect we will have to pay some of his wages if we sell him on, but so be it. Iaquinta is now injured again, after suffering from so many injuries this last year or so...who in their right minds would want him? Motta? already covered him.
Lastly, its not just the quality of the players he has brought in this summer, its the character also, which has impressed and encouraged me. We have lacked grinta so horribly and consistently since Pavel retired. Vidal, Lichsteiner, Pazienza all have natural grit. Vucinic has something to prove I feel, and may well blossom out of Rome, away from the shadow of Totti. Pirlo has a supreme temperament, and a huge amount of quality. Conte also adds that passion, zeal, incredibly focused spirit that we have been lacking on the bench as well as the field. I assume that one of the reasons Melo left was Conte's lack of appreciation for his mentality. Melo excelled when cared for like a baby by Delneri. Conte is not at all that kind of manager...
All in all, your views do not seem totally different from my own. Our youth sector seems to be improving. Our senior sector is improving. Its a risk with Conte, but one I support.
Of the players who viably we could attract, what left wingers do you think beppe should be going for???