General Religion & Philosophy Discussion Thread (23 Viewers)

[swag]

So who here believes there is no design in nature? In the human being, in the earth, in the solar system, the galaxies, the universe?

That's a loaded question that needs plenty of ground rules.

There are viruses that mutate millions of times a year -- once every few seconds. They're like the Borg in Star Trek. And it means that they're genetically like an army of lock-pickers on crack. When they "crack" a protein sequence and environmental conditions that allow them to get a lot of people sick -- like the 1918 flu epidemic -- you could call that "designed". But is it really?

 

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

I don't think that's fair. What about political ideology? Was that not the main reason?

 

[Linebreak]

That's a loaded question that needs plenty of ground rules.

There are viruses that mutate millions of times a year -- once every few seconds. They're like the Borg in Star Trek. And it means that they're genetically like an army of lock-pickers on crack. When they "crack" a protein sequence and environmental conditions that allow them to get a lot of people sick -- like the 1918 flu epidemic -- you could call that "designed". But is it really?

Yes it is designed - you've described a process there. It's still designed to work in that way.\

One can for example describe the process in which the eye see's in a lot of detail - then it can be said the eye is useless without the sun. Strong evidence for an overall design.

 

[swag]

I don't think that's fair. What about political ideology? Was that not the main reason?

Look, people kill each other for being a laziale at highway rest stop Autogrills in Italy. What makes you think being an atheist would be an exception?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Yes it is designed - you've described a process there. It's still designed to work in that way.\

One can for example describe the process in which the eye see's in a lot of detail - then it can be said the eye is useless without the sun. Strong evidence for an overall design.

No it's not.

 

[Linebreak]

When different systems work in harmony with each other, it's strong evidence for design.

 

[swag]

Yes it is designed - you've described a process there. It's still designed to work in that way.\

One can for example describe the process in which the eye see's in a lot of detail - then it can be said the eye is useless without the sun. Strong evidence for an overall design.

That's kind of a lame argument if you asked me. Your logic above generally suggests that anything that happens is thus by design, rending the whole discussion moot and pointless. If everybody can be considered a racist, then racism almost by definition no longer exists! That gets us nowhere until you can clarify clearly what is or isn't by design.

As such, I think the designed-vs-not-designed approach is an invalid one because it cannot lead to useful proof. Nice try, but game over: please deposit another $10.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Look, people kill each other for being a laziale at highway rest stop Autogrills in Italy. What makes you think being an atheist would be an exception?

I'm not ruling it out completely. No one's perfect. But let's not kid ourselves. We've seen more Hitler's than Stalin's in recent history.

 

[IliveForJuve]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the human eye.

 

[Linebreak]

I'm not ruling it out completely. No one's perfect. But let's not kid ourselves. We've seen more Hitler's than Stalin's in recent history.

WW1 and WW2 were fought for secular ideals. There's no denying that.

Hitler was not a religious man - he had some twisted views of religion. He obviously took on modern secular views of science of his time like some races were more evolved than others - hence the Germans were the most evolved and they were to control of all the lesser races - very "survival of the fittest" and "natural selection" ideology morphed in political power there.

 

[swag]

I'm not ruling it out completely. No one's perfect. But let's not kid ourselves. We've seen more Hitler's than Stalin's in recent history.

Both were plenty enough as it was.

The point being that anybody who thinks adhering to any given belief system, and who happens to be human -- and that said one belief system is so unique and special as to somehow enable one to overcome all the evils, misuses, abuses, and past horrors humans have committed in the name of belief systems -- is completely delusional.

 

[swag]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the human eye.

I think that's a prime example of man's feeblemindedness -- how it goes "golly gee whiz, can ya believe what dem space monkeys will invent next?!" to make magic out of the mundane.

 

[ALC]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the human eye.

or how bees are able to fly even though their wings are too small for their bodies.

 

[Enron]

Yes it is designed - you've described a process there. It's still designed to work in that way.\

One can for example describe the process in which the eye see's in a lot of detail - then it can be said the eye is useless without the sun. Strong evidence for an overall design.

Or the eye's adaptation to sunlight. If we lived underground our body would just compensate. Organisms tend to adapt to their environment.

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When different systems work in harmony with each other, it's strong evidence for design.

So is child molestation.

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WW1 and WW2 were fought for secular ideals. There's no denying that.

Hitler was not a religious man - he had some twisted views of religion. He obviously took on modern secular views of science of his time like some races were more evolved than others - hence the Germans were the most evolved and they were to control of all the lesser races - very "survival of the fittest" and "natural selection" ideology morphed in political power there.

That was an instance of popular science being applied to radical nationalism. Hitler wasn't a radical scientist. He was a nationalist, who used scientific ideals to create his own brand of politics. If anything, it's a cautionary tale against blind belief in anything.

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or how bees are able to fly even though their wings are too small for their bodies.

They flap their wings very quickly.

 

[ALC]

like star-nosed moles or that blind shark that lives really deep. you need light to see but you can survive without sight.

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They flap their wings very quickly.

blasphemy. god helps them.

 

[Enron]

You don't need light to see. Ask a bat or a dolphin.

 

[ALC]

that's not seeing, it's hearing

 

[Linebreak]

Or the eye's adaptation to sunlight. If we lived underground our body would just compensate. Organisms tend to adapt to their environment.

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So is child molestation.

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That was an instance of popular science being applied to radical nationalism. Hitler wasn't a radical scientist. He was a nationalist, who used scientific ideals to create his own brand of politics. If anything, it's a cautionary tale against blind belief in anything.

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They flap their wings very quickly.

Wtf?

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You don't need light to see. Ask a bat or a dolphin.

That's sensing or hearing.

We are talking about an eye, that needs light to see - we are talking about the human eye.

The eye is completely useless unless ALL of it's parts are present.

The eye and light area great example of design in nature, along with the infinite other examples.

The Solar System is what? A SYSTEM - I'd love someone to calculate for me the probability of a 100 car pile up causing an explosion to create a new super vehicle that can fly at the speed of light.

The whole world, from the Big Bang to today, has been carefully designed and controlled. One that cannot see design in nature is lying to themselves before others.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

The size of the universe and the scale of time is way too vast for humans to near fathom, but within them, nothing can be too coincidental - surely not a 100 car pile up causing an explosion to create a new super vehicle that can fly at the speed of light.

 

[swag]

So is child molestation.

True dat, actually.